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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 12:28 pm
And I still don't think a BLOG can call itself a BLOG if there is no provision for reader comments.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 12:40 pm
Perhaps Cyclops would be so kind as to give us an example of a right-wing blog that allows no comments.

I agree with Foxy that weblogs generally allow comments. Maybe Cyclops isn't clear on what exactly a blog is.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 12:46 pm
How about, just to name a few,

Powerlineblog
instapundit
michellemalkin

And I am quite aware of what a blog is and isn't, thanks very much.

While I agree with you that Blogs SHOULD allow comments, they most certainly do not have to in order to be considered a blog.

Cycloptichorn
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:17 pm
Huh. I confess I haven't read any of the blogs Cyclops listed, but I really, really like both Powerline and Instapundit, so a big thanks for the heads up Smile (Haven't checked out the third - doesn't she have a column or something in a newspaper?)

I'm not sure why those three bloggers elect not to handle comments on their sites (I suppose one could email or write to ask if they were curious), but I don't think it's a big deal since the majority of bloggers do allow comments from their readers.

I'm sure if I looked hard enough (I won't - just not that interested) I could find a lefty blog or two that has the comment function turned off as well.

I think one generally has to register at these blog sites in order to share comments, and I haven't done that either (and won't since the one and only time I've ever registered for anything on the internet -- A2K -- has no option to unregister and I won't be making THAT mistake again LOL).
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:25 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Lash wrote:
keltic--
I don't read blogs.

Then why do you claim that "everyone" uses a term which our discussion here has shown is used only on blogs and articles about blogs?

And there are not enough articles about blogs to create the impression that "everyone" uses the term.

So that leaves blogs as your only possible source of the erroneoous impression that "everyone" uses the acronym MSM for Mainstream Media.

Sorry, Lash, but you tipped your hand. About the only good thing for you about this matter is that the internet is electronic, so you don't have to have the blogs shipped to you in a plain brown wrapper.

If it has trickled down into the A2K vernacular, anal retentive, then it is widely used.

Get a life.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:32 pm
Well then you must mean that there must be a message board where readers can post and harange each other to fit your standards, Cyclop. Each of those sites you posted are private nformational sites to feature writings/opinion of the site owners and do not pretend to be a 'debate or discussion' forum. Neverthless, I found contact information for each

We could as easily put up Moveon.org, Michaelmoore.com, ACLU.org, etc. as 'left wing' sites that don't allow comments according to your definition.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:37 pm
Well, but those sites AREN'T WEBLOGS.

The others that I listed, ARE weblogs.

I never said that every site HAD to allow comments. Just that those that do are far superior to those that do not.

As I said earlier, Redstate.org stands out as a paragon on the righty side of things.

Cycloptichorn
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:46 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Go for it, though I will say that my contention isn't that you couldn't find 10 right-wing blogs that have comments enabled, just that you/others couldn't name them off of the top of your head.

Now, if you don't frequent blogs, then that would automatically mean that you probably cannot name 10 of them. My mission isn't to send you on a scavenger hunt in order to find websites, but to point out the fact that there is a large disparity in the Blog world when it comes to comments and soliciting information and viewpoints from others.

Cycloptichorn


Oh ... I see. Laughing

Well, I don't "frequent" blogs, but I have been to some -- mostly pre-election when everybody was charged up. In fact, I've bookmarked several in the past, probably with the ambitious intent to visit and read. I checked and I have 8 bookmarked, and all but one allow for comments (that one being Instapundit). I've no idea if that's a representative sampling or not. But it does not lead one to the conclusion that right-wing blogs generally don't permit comments.

Oh ... I also go to scrappleface (not really a blog) and I know he has comments.

Have we established anything with this exercise?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 01:50 pm
I've run across a few when I'm googling for information. I just don't like the format---scrolling down, down... and I don't like the fact that it's written so closely to one person's opinion.

I guess I like the shorter articles...

Anyhoo, I googled MSM and got this:

Mass media
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from Mainstream media)
For other uses of the term "Media", see media (disambiguation).
Mass media is the term used to denote, as a class, that section of the media specifically conceived and designed to reach a very large audience (typically at least as large as the whole population of a nation state). It was coined in the 1920s with the advent of nationwide radio networks and of mass-circulation newspapers and magazines. The mass-media audience has been viewed by some commentators as forming a mass society with special characteristics, notably atomization or lack of social connections, which render it especially susceptible to the influence of modern mass-media techniques such as advertising and propaganda....

It's in Wikipedia. That would be..."widely known".
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 02:05 pm
Ticomaya wrote:

Have we established anything with this exercise?


Yep.

KW is easily annoyed.

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 02:10 pm
Lash wrote:

It's in Wikipedia. That would be..."widely known".


Quote:
The three letter acronym MSM can refer to:

Mechanically separated meat.
Men who have sex with men.
Methylsulfonylmethane, a dietary supplement.
Mainstream media.
Manhattan School of Music, a conservatory in New York City.


Yes, it's in there - but not at all mentioned in your quoted article :wink:
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 10:31 pm
Foxfyre wrote:

For that matter, I'm not sure a lot of younger Americans know what ICBM is an acronym for; however, I probably wouldn't spell it out if I used it in an article.

Point is, it is not a widely advertised thing and people still know what it is.

Or, to put it another way, something is widely known if the "man on the street" knows what it is. Which is clearly not the case with MSM. Clearly, only the "Man on the Blog" interpret MSM as meaning Mainstream Media..

Foxfyre wrote:
I immediately recognized MSM when it was used and I certainly did not learn the term from Blogs.

Then you have to be one of the few.

You mentioned that it was used in memos in your office back in the eighties when everyone was listening to Hair Bands. Fine. Very possibly, your boss invented the word and applied it to the office. There is such a thing as independent invention-some Native American tribes apparently invented psychotherapy independent of Sigmund Freud. It happens.

However, there have been many bestselling books dealing with the media in the past 25 years or so, and if MSM was widely used, that info would have become known by now. Yet we do all sorts of serches for the term, and everytime a search comes back to a blog when it is applied to the media. If you used the term in your office back in the eighties, then it was no doubt local to that office or company alone. If it was more universal, it would show up in many more applications than blogs.

When it gets to the point that the Maastricht School of Management is higher up on the Google list than the first use of MSM meaning Mainstream Media, then it really is time for you guys to throw in the towel on this one.

Foxfyre wrote:
I think MSM as Lash and JW used it is probably not frequently used purely because MSM is an acronym for so many different things...

Yes, but here is the point-the things that are more popular uses of MSM are not widely known either. The arthritis treatment is not known to the Man In The Street the way IBM, FBI or ICBM is. Morehouse School of Medicine? Metal Separated Meat? These are obscure references. Yet they are still ahead of MSM=Mainstream Media on the list. So clearly, MSM=Mainstream Media is even more obscure than the previously noted obscure references.

It's bad enough that Just Wonders tries to claim that a reference is widely used when it is obscure. But when it is not only obscure, but even more obscure than another reference, which itself is even more obscure than still another reference, which is itself more obscure than.....well, it's clear that claiming MSM=Mainstream Media is well-known is entirely hopeless.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 10:38 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Yes, [MSM as Mainstream Media] it's in there - but not at all mentioned in your quoted article :wink:


Thank you, Walter.

Isn't it amazing how dug in these conservatives get when they are determined to impose their Blogspeak on the world and expect us to take their say-so that it really is the normal word now?

Normal word, my foot.

As the Google searches show, it's normal for blog readers, people who happened to work in Foxfyre's office, and nobody else.

Pushy bunch, aren't they? Very Happy
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 10:49 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Yes, but here is the point-the things that are more popular uses of MSM are not widely known either. The arthritis treatment is not known to the Man In The Street the way IBM, FBI or ICBM is. Morehouse School of Medicine? Metal Separated Meat? These are obscure references. Yet they are still ahead of MSM=Mainstream Media on the list. So clearly, MSM=Mainstream Media is even more obscure than the previously noted obscure references.

It's bad enough that Just Wonders tries to claim that a reference is widely used when it is obscure. But when it is not only obscure, but even more obscure than another reference, which itself is even more obscure than still another reference, which is itself more obscure than.....well, it's clear that claiming MSM=Mainstream Media is well-known is entirely hopeless.


Yet what's more obscure, KW, is the reason you are continuing to press this bizarre and silly point ...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:13 am
<chuckle>


<shakes head>

As an acronym for Main Stream Media, MSM goes way back - predating the internet, anyhow. In media, academic, and literary circles, its use goes to the Marshall McLuhan era.


I don't think Australia's National Press Club qualifies as a "Right Wing Blog", and I wouldn't say a reference almost 10 years old is particularly indicative of the term's recent origin in the blogosphere:
Quote:

http://www.acs.org.au/president/1996/atm/npc/npclogo2.gifNational Press Club[/size]

Professor Ashley Goldsworthy, chair of the Information Industries Taskforce & Dr Terry Cutler, chair of the Information Policy Advisory Council

25 November 1996

... Dr Cutler: I agree with that all of us at some stage have to have one of those ah ha experiences where we suddenly realise that everything is changed. The contrast I think we need to draw with respect to the media is, if we look at the media here versus, say, the US or even in Asia, where these issues are in the front section of the papers. In all the Asian papers I read this is main stream stuff. If you read the Wall Street Journal, this is right at the front of every issue. Perhaps one of the reasons for declining circulation of Australian print media in some areas at the moment is the fact that this is not happening because you se people reading specialist US publications, particularly younger kids. They're reading some of these things either online or the hard copy versions of things like Wired and so forth which are main stream and appealing to a group of people who are getting nothing out of main stream media, if I might be so courageous to say so.


I wouldn't say IndyMedia-UK is a "Right Wing Blog" either. Here is the term in an entry from March 20, '03:

Quote:
Bring down the main stream media
Polio Guy | 20.03.2003 21:56

Tomorrow we ask some of the anti war protesters to take over the mainstream media (TV, Radio and newspapers) stop them from spreading there hateful propaganda. They have been virtually ignoring our protests and they need to be taken down. Better still take ver the BBC radio station and spread our revelation.

Down with the BBC, CNN, Murdoch and Gang

Better still tomorrow will be the day when the voices of our rulers will be shut down

Best of Luck


It ain't a new thing, it ain't an American thing, and it ain't a "Right Wing" thing. Still, I suppose for some folks, debating that its a new, right-wing American thing will do for an issue-surrogate in the absence of any real issues. Amazing how little it takes to entertain some folks - and telling. too, how little that sorta thing entertains The Electorate.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:40 am
Obviously I was mislead, since of course I know the term 'mainstream media' since years but thought, the acronym MSM was questioned.

Never mind.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 05:45 am
Hi Walter - where's your latest signature line from? Fan of Heidegger here (he was unquestionably the greatest classicist of the 20th century) can't recognize his writings in your quote about "killing time" Smile
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:11 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Obviously I was mislead, since of course I know the term 'mainstream media' since years but thought, the acronym MSM was questioned.

Never mind.

I thought the same thing, Walter. Timber makes an obvious but rather irrelevant point, it seems to me.

Thanks for brining the Wikipedia link, too. If, as Lash just claimed, the abbreviation appearing in Wikipedia makes it "widely known" I guess MSM is "widely known" to mean "mechanically separated meat" as well Razz
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:13 am
I think Cyclo is way off with his assertion about rightwing blogs almost never featuring a reply option, though. I've seen lots of rightwing blogs with reply/comment options.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:20 am
kelticwizard wrote:
It's bad enough that Just Wonders tries to claim that a reference is widely used when it is obscure. But when it is not only obscure, but even more obscure than another reference, which itself is even more obscure than still another reference, which is itself more obscure than.....well, it's clear that claiming MSM=Mainstream Media is well-known is entirely hopeless.


OK, now I'm seriously worried. Help, however, is on the way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/health/psychology/14ment.html?th&emc=th

Feel better, KW Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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