InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2017 11:51 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:
This is sheer speculation


Well, there's a little speculation involved, sure, but it aint really all that "sheer," ya know?

M'kay.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2017 11:52 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Quote:

You're confused as to the meaning of "unmasking." It isn't the divulgence of classified information. The word for that that's been bandied around is "leak."


I aint confusin no kinda nuthin. Maybe you just don't read so good, ever think of that?

No. You're confused.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 08:58 am
Quote:
I happen to share the anger in the media over the treatment of the press by this president. However, journalistic ethics require reporters to transcend such anger and maintain objectivity. No matter how much we might prefer blissful ignorance, there are no facts too good to check.

Reporters are now so committed to refuting Trump that they are refuting actual stories. The loss of objectivity in the response to the Rice story reflects a broader problem of the press focusing so hard on Trump that it is losing sight of its own bearings. The irony is that Trump was wrong about the media but many in the media seem to be working hard to prove him right.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University.



Heh, Trump has baited them into suicidal self-destruction. They're devoted to polemicism, not journalism. Advocacy, not reporting. They'll retain their audience of cult-followers, sure, but, generally speaking, trust in the press will shrink to near zero. Give a chump enough rope, and he'll hang himself every time.

0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 09:07 am
Not surprising that these cheese-eaters here quickly subscribe to the "might makes right" theory of morality when it comes to the actions of their own, eh?

Time and time again they scream that Rice had the power to unmask citizens, as though that ends all discussion. The thought that power can be abused never occurs to them.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:02 am
When ya need a good liar, Susie Rice is your go-to girl, sho nuff.

Quote:
Back in January in an in interview with NPR, Obama national security adviser Susan Rice was still touting the Obama administration's success at removing chemical weapons in Syria, saying, "We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile."


http://www.weeklystandard.com/in-january-susan-rice-assured-npr-the-obama-admin-removed-chemical-weapons-from-syria/article/2007548

I'm glad we got her assurances that Iran has ceased all work on nukes, too, ya know?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:44 am
Quote:
Questions about what intelligence can be shared are supposed to be settled through consultations that involve the General Counsel of the Director of National Intelligence, with numerous sign-offs and a memorandum of agreement governing its availability and how it will be used.

The same rules demand that an agency that obtains the raw SIGINT, as electronic monitoring programs are known, must ensure that anyone with access to the material uses it appropriately and that the constitutional rights, especially Fourth Amendment rights, of any American citizen who is monitored are respected.

The document states that those guarantees should be in place for every request involving such sensitive information—including the information requests made by Rice to “unmask” the redacted identities of people associated with the victorious Trump presidential campaign who were caught up in “incidental” communications collection by NSA.

The revamped procedures, approved in the last days of the Obama Administration, also specifically warn U.S. government agencies against sharing any personal information from raw NSA intelligence with the White House“for the purpose of affecting the political process in the United States.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/07/detailed-paper-trail-for-rice-unmasking-requests-likely-exists-according-to-controversial-intel-sharing-document.html

A link to the rules: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/slideshow/2017/04/06/intel-sharing-document.html

0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:59 am
It now appears that these new rules may have been drafted, at least in part, as part of a backlash designed to help prevent, rather than facilitate, the political abuse of information obtained through FISA warrants. The outrage of many (non-partisan) intelligence agents against such abuses has been noted in many places.

The rules now provide, in part ["IC" is short for "intelligence community"--also, the letter "f" does not seem to be cutting and pasting well]:

Quote:
(U) SECTION H ~ REQUESTS FOR RAW SIGINT

A. (U) Access request from an IC element. NSA may provide raw SIGINT to an IC element only if the head of the IC element or a high-level designee makes a written request describing the raw SIGINT sought and stating whether the element wishes to conduct communications metadata analysis in accordance with section IV.F below. The request will address the following:

1. (U) Use of information. The IC element will explain how it will use the raw SIGINT, to include identifying the particular authorized foreign intelligence or counterintelligence missions or functions that are the basis for its request.

2. (U) Value of information. The IC element will describe how it expects the raw SIGINT to further such missions or functions in a sig1,1ificant way.

3. (U) Other sources of information. The IC element will explain why other sources reasonably available to it cannot provide the information the element expects to obtain from the raw SIGINT.

4. (U) Access requirements. The IC element will describe its access requirements (e.g., the estimated number of analysts who will have access to the raw SIGINT and the time period that the element will retain the raw SIGINT).

5. (U) Processing and disse1nination. The IC element will explain how it will process raw SIGINT and, if appropriate, disseminate the information obtained from it.

6. (U) Protection of information. The IC element will explain how it will safeguard the raw SIGINT, including limiting access to those personnel described in section III.B.5 and protecting all sensitive sources, methods, and activities, in a manner consistent with security requirements specified or agreed to by the Director, NSA (DIRNSA).


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/slideshow/2017/04/06/intel-sharing-document.html
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 12:16 pm
@layman,
Quote:
It now appears that these new rules may have been drafted, at least in part, as part of a backlash designed to help prevent, rather than facilitate, the political abuse of information obtained through FISA warrants.


Then again, it may just have been Obama's way of trying to prevent Trump from doing what he did, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 02:17 pm
Better late than never, I guess:

Quote:
Any IC element that obtains access to raw SIGINT under these Procedures will: (1) Take steps to ensure its processing, retention, and
dissemination of the information complies with applicable requirements of the Fourth Amendment, and (2) Not engage in any intelligence activity authorized by these Procedures, including disseminations to the White House, for the purpose of affecting the political process in the United States.
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 10:28 pm
@layman,
Quote layman's post:
Quote:
Any IC element that obtains access to raw SIGINT under these Procedures will: (1) Take steps to ensure its processing, retention, and
dissemination of the information complies with applicable requirements of the Fourth Amendment, and (2) Not engage in any intelligence activity authorized by these Procedures, including disseminations to the White House, for the purpose of affecting the political process in the United States.


You have no evidenced that Rice didn't comply with the Fourth Amendment, and you have no evidence that her purpose was to affect the political process in the United States.

After three days of pounding away at this, you still have no evidence that Rice did anything legally or morally wrong, in wanting to know who the person was who was talking to the Soviet ambassador on a wiretap-the person who told the ambassador not to worry about the president's sanctions against Russia, and hinted that Trump would take care of the Russians when he became president. Which is something that somebody in the National Security Council damned well should be looking into.

Your method of arguing this is to say such things as Trump was named in a wiretap warrant going to an investigation about dealings of Russian banks which were actually Kremlin fronts. Trump has been dealing with these fronts for years, the banks are run by KGB agents selected by Putin. It is not remotely remarkable that he would be named in a wiretap warrant after dealing with these Kremlin fronts for so long.

By the way, what the hell was the Russian ambassador doing at the Republican National Convention? Distributing a little "walking around money" to be repaid later in secret documents?
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 10:47 pm
@Blickers,
Heh, you don't hear so good, eh, Blicky. Why do you keep trying to change the subject? The issue isn't even about unmasking, per se, although that does make Rice a prime suspect.

There is indisputable proof that some Obama flunky (whether Rice or someone else) committed a serious felony by violating Flynn's civil rights.

Do you in any way dispute that?
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:06 pm
@layman,
This thread isn't about Susan Rice, don't accuse me of changing the subject. The subject at hand is the Russian ambassador, Kisylak, and his numerous conversations with officials of the Trump campaign and Administration which those officials keep denying. And your unproved claim that Susan Rice broke the law by doing her job of asking the investigative body, through the normal legal channels, of the name of the person who Russian Ambassador Kisylak was talking to. That is, the person who was telling Kislylak about how the Russians need not worry about the president's sanctions, when Trump came into office the Russians wouldn't have to worry about the sanctions anymore. Which is definitely information that any National Security Advisor would ask. Since the job of National Security Advisor is to find information and advise the president on foreign affairs.

So tell me, what was Russian Ambassador Kisylak doing at the Republican National Covention anyway-making a few prepayments on information to be delivered to him or Russian Intelligence sometime in the future?
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:09 pm
@layman,
Quote:
It now appears that these new rules may have been drafted, at least in part, as part of a backlash designed to help prevent, rather than facilitate, the political abuse of information obtained through FISA warrants. The outrage of many (non-partisan) intelligence agents against such abuses has been noted in many places.


I was wrong about this. These new rules, although ostensibly carrying some safeguards, did not "add" any new protections whatsoever.

Prior to the adoption of these rules, NSA was not permitted to give the "raw" intelligence data to ANY other agency (just summaries which excluded any relevant personal information collected).
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:10 pm
@Blickers,
Just answer the damn question, eh, Blicky?

I know you won't, but prove it to me, eh?

If they found 14 dead bodies in Rice's bedroom, you would pretend no crime was committed at all, and hence that there was nothing to investigate, if it couldn't be instantly proven that Rice was the murderer.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2017 11:51 pm
@Blickers,
So far, there has been no collaboration found between anyone in the Trump campaign staff and Russian agents.

There has, however, been plenty of **** found about the abuse of power in unmasking, disseminating and leaking classified intelligence.

This thread is about that second part as that will be the explosive story that brings down the reputation and disgusting sheen of Obama and his administration.

Let me add, for (is this the fourth time?) the last time. The White House is not an investigative organization. There is no one in the executive branch that should be running any investigations from the White House. They have whole departments for that. Those departments are non-partisan (supposedly) and are supposed to investigate for the truth. Not the Natl Sec Adviser.
InfraBlue
 
  4  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2017 01:06 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Let me add, for (is this the fourth time?) the last time. The White House is not an investigative organization. There is no one in the executive branch that should be running any investigations from the White House. They have whole departments for that. Those departments are non-partisan (supposedly) and are supposed to investigate for the truth. Not the Natl Sec Adviser.

Read my reply to one of your iterations here.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2017 01:11 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Let me add, for (is this the fourth time?) the last time. The White House is not an investigative organization. There is no one in the executive branch that should be running any investigations from the White House. They have whole departments for that. Those departments are non-partisan (supposedly) and are supposed to investigate for the truth. Not the Natl Sec Adviser.

Read my reply to one of your iterations here.


Read my rejoinder to your lame reply here, eh?:

https://able2know.org/topic/378683-6#post-6399618

Not to even mention that Rice has no unrestricted or unqualified right to unmask U.S. citizens to begin with. A cop is authorized to carry a gun. He's authorized to fire it. But, for some damn reason, he aint authorized to shoot you dead on a whim.

Go figure, eh?
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2017 08:43 am
@layman,
If I was a detective and I came across some dead body with a gun next to it, I would IMMEDIATELY put a trace on that gun.

When I found out who it was registered to, I would go straight to the owner and ask him if he was the killer.

If he said "yeah, sho nuff," I would just be on my way.

But if he said "naw," then I would know there was a crime to investigate, because whoever was carrying that gun did NOT have a permit to carry it.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2017 09:55 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Let me add, for (is this the fourth time?) the last time. The White House is not an investigative organization. There is no one in the executive branch that should be running any investigations from the White House. They have whole departments for that. Those departments are non-partisan (supposedly) and are supposed to investigate for the truth. Not the Natl Sec Adviser.

Read my reply to one of your iterations here.


Read my rejoinder to your lame reply here, eh?:

https://able2know.org/topic/378683-6#post-6399618

Not to even mention that Rice has no unrestricted or unqualified right to unmask U.S. citizens to begin with. A cop is authorized to carry a gun. He's authorized to fire it. But, for some damn reason, he aint authorized to shoot you dead on a whim.

Go figure, eh?

What are lame are your strawman arguments.

Rice acted within her rights and powers in unmasking these US citizens. Live with it.
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2017 10:21 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Rice acted within her rights and powers in unmasking these US citizens


Heh, you aint exactly the brightest candle on the birthday cake, eh?
 

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