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Racism and Bias

 
 
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2017 02:05 pm
There is a popular notion that bias can be okay and racism is a different thing altogether. That bias is somehow okay.

I disagree, bias is racism too.

Racism is in your face while bias is subtle, yet "devious".

Racism would be, I hate people of a different race.

Bias examples: White people can't dance and have no rhythm, black people eat more fried chicken and all Mexicans love tacos. Bias is still racism.

Both bias and racism are learned.

Boys are boys and girls are girls, really? (bias can be sexism too)

Bias is not statistically proven, it is presumed. People rationalize that bias is a horse of a different color while in reality it is just another form of sexist and racist bigotry.

Any opinions?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 4,514 • Replies: 109

 
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2017 02:58 pm
Racism doesn't have to be out in the open and clearly stated to qualify for the name. It can be under cover as you say. You call it 'bias', but I would say it is racist to suppose that black people like watermelons and and run fast, Jews are miserly or clannish, etc.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:06 am
@centrox,
And then there is the biased idea that Christians are more charitable than atheists, liberals or other religions.

That Christians have more "empathy"... LOL!

This last election sent that idea out the window.

Christians are no more empathetic than other religions.

As many white US Christians reject refugees while other countries open their loving arms to help them, we see their true, erm... colors.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 01:13 am
What if your biased against old people or babies? What about people of your own race? What if Eastern Europeans have a bias against Western Europeans? What about rich people's bias to poor people?

Do you even know what bias actually is?
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 03:22 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

There is a popular notion that bias can be okay and racism is a different thing altogether. That bias is somehow okay.

I disagree, bias is racism too.

Racism is in your face while bias is subtle, yet "devious".

Racism would be, I hate people of a different race.

Bias examples: White people can't dance and have no rhythm, black people eat more fried chicken and all Mexicans love tacos. Bias is still racism.

Both bias and racism are learned.

Boys are boys and girls are girls, really? (bias can be sexism too)

Bias is not statistically proven, it is presumed. People rationalize that bias is a horse of a different color while in reality it is just another form of sexist and racist bigotry.

Any opinions?


You are using the word "bias" incorrectly. A bias means you are holding a hypothesis with an unexpected favoritism slant.

A racial bias would be an example such as if you were white and made a statement like, "white people are superior to other races."

Its a bias because you are revealing favoritism because you are that race to start with.

What you are referring to are just racial generalizations or stereotypes. They are not universally true but they happen often enough that people create them.

The reason is our brains love patterns and we love to classify things. So certain behavior gets categorized even if it's not 100% accurate. This is where the human brain can hold something to be true when it's not logically valid as a truth.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 03:44 am
@TheCobbler,
I disagree completely, most people have bias of one sort or another, most newspapers are biased in favour of a particular political party. Having no bias means having no opinion, just a load of woolly platitudes.

I think you're confusing overt racism with mumbling prejudice.

Quote:
Bias examples: White people can't dance and have no rhythm, black people eat more fried chicken and all Mexicans love tacos. Bias is still racism.


These aren't examples of bias, they're racist stereotypes.
centrox
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 03:57 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I disagree completely, most people have bias of one sort or another, most newspapers are biased in favour of a particular political party. Having no bias means having no opinion, just a load of woolly platitudes.

But surely there must be a difference between a bias and a considered, though-out and sincerely held opinion? I think people can have both, and possibly some 'opinions' have a component of bias. Or is it a case of "I have a sincere opinion, but you're biased"? Is a bias different from a dislike? I don't like UKIP supporters, and I freely admit to a probably biased dislike of white-van-men who stick "Engerland" flags on their vehicles and shave their heads.





izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 04:00 am
@centrox,
centrox wrote:
Is a bias different from a dislike?


I think so, I'm biased in favour of Channel 4 News but I don't dislike the BBC. Fox News and the Daily Mail are another matter entirely, I bloody hate them.
0 Replies
 
nacredambition
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 05:54 am
I'm inclined to agree.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 09:08 am
@TheCobbler,
There is a basic problem here. People see the the bias in other people. People fail to see the bias in their own beliefs. This is also true about liberals (who are just as biased... but seem to be a lot more self-righteous about it)..

We, as human beings, live on biases. At the core of any of our world views are a set of beliefs that we want to believe are absolutely true, but in truth have no rational basis.

The more open-minded of us admit this and are willing to question liberal ideas as fervently as we question conservative ones (or vise versa).

If this is your point, then I am with you. If you are saying "anyone who disagrees with my world-view is biased, and sexist and racist" then I am afraid that I think you are missing the point.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 09:24 am
I have been stewing on this idea for a while... this seems like a good place to explore this idea.

Donald Trump is president because the American liberal community (and the Democratic party in general) failed to provide a positive message. The message of the Hillary campaign was "I'm with Her" (which fails to provide any real message about a direction for the country).

Remember how Bernie supporters were attacked as "Bernie Bros". The message here is clear... if you disagree with me, you are a sexist. This is the reason that Trump was innoculated.... the "Pussy-Grabbing" comment would have sunk the campaign of any other candidate in the history of politics. It was the fact that Bernie and Trump supporters were already being attacked as sexists that made Trumps truly shocking comments OK. That is how innoculation works.

If your argment revolves around attacking other people as racist or sexist, you have already lost. You are conceding that the facts don't matter.

And that is why we are now facing 4 years of Trump.
centrox
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 09:32 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If your argment revolves around attacking other people as racist or sexist, you have already lost. You are conceding that the facts don't matter.

What if the people you are attacking as racist or sexist (or dishonest or incompetent) are racist or sexist (or dishonest or incompetent)?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 09:39 am
@centrox,
It is not helpful to label people as "sexist" or "racist". Most people don't fit into these convenient little boxes.

A Christian farmer in the midwest might treat women with respect and even believe in equal pay while being against abortion. I personally know a very progressive woman in Cambridge MA who is very unconfortable with sharing a bathroom with trans women. Are either of these people sexist?

People are complicated. In a democratic society, where everyone gets a vote, the Democrats had best understand that.

Once someone knows that you think of them as sexist and racist, you can pretty much forget about their support.

TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 09:54 am
@izzythepush,
Political bias is one shade away from racism.

To favor a publication because it is liberal or conservative rather than examining each point on its own validity and merit is blind and made of the same fabric as racism.

Racism could not exist without bias.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:14 am
@maxdancona,
If the shoe fits wear it...

Oh, this person is not naked because they are wearing a shirt...

They are not racist because they are sometimes kind to their dog.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:14 am
@TheCobbler,
So then Cobbler....

Does this mean that you read Breitbart regularly with an open mind toward what it says?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:20 am
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
If the shoe fits wear it...


Well Cobbler, your attitude on this is an attitude that loses elections.

Last year, Hillary Clinton made a comment about Trump supporters being a "basket of deplorables". Hillary supporters (including me at first) cheered, not realizing that this comment (and the attitude that it expressed so clearly) would lose the election.

A little while later, I went to the Topsfield fair in Massachusetts. They had several stands selling t-shirts celebrating "I am a deplorable!". Trump supporters loved this t-shirt! Hillary gave them something to rally around. I still see people wearing shirts with some version of the phrase "Deplorable and Proud".

That is the thing... the shoe fit, and they wore it proudly. You define a large proporrtion of the American electorate as "deplorable", then deplorables all of a sudden become powerful and trendy.

Once you label people as racist or sexist, you lose any chance of gaining their support, even on areas of mutual interest.

And that is why Trump is in the White House.
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Most people don't fit into these convenient little boxes.

I'm not talking about fitting people "into boxes". I'm talking about identifying, and naming, specific behaviours.

If someone says "“I have days where, if I come home — and I don't want to sound too much like a chauvinist, but when I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through the roof.”, I call that sexist.

If someone says of a black person, "I think the guy is lazy, and it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.", I call that racist. I also call it racist if they say that an American-born judge with a Spanish sounding name can't do his job "because he is a Mexican".

I don't see what is wrong with that.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:29 am
@centrox,
Quote:

I'm not talking about fitting people "into boxes". I'm talking about identifying, and naming, specific behaviours.


If you read your post again; you were clearly labling people, not behaviors. The definition of racism is subjective; what you consider to be racist differs from what other people consider racist.

Is someone who supports the travel ban because they are afraid of Islamic terrorism racist? If it is, that doesn't mean that the person believes that black people are lazy. These are separate issues. It isn't useful to lump people together.... particularly if you are trying to form a winning political movement.

There is nothing wrong with you labeling someone as a "racist" for whatever reason you choose. That is part of free speech.

I am just pointing out that as soon as you label someone as a racist, you make meaningful dialog difficult... and you can forget about asking for their support even on issues where you may find some agreement.

TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:29 am
@maxdancona,
Funny how you mention Breitbart and basket of deportables within two posts.

I will listen to anything if it has integrity and a ring of truth.

When I am disappointed time and again with lies and innuendo I realize I am being played for a fool and move on.

Fool me twice shame on me.

It trust bias? No.

Trust is earned and maintained by integrity...
0 Replies
 
 

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