192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
If there is a vaccine, it must be available to everyone. Anything else would be a scandal.

Who will pay for it to be mass-produced and distributed?

What if developers keep it private and distribute it via secret networks of rich people who pay very high prices?
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:05 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
just as the coronavirus rips through nursing homes.

How did the H1N1 rip through under Obama's watch? The virus does not care who is in office. Patients will be diagnosed and treated.
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:12 pm
@snood,
Quote:
You gotta remember: A lot of these same people also believe [Trump is] “sent from God”.

And at the same time as Trump sits in the White House, there is a worldwide epidemic and a plague of locusts from the tip of Africa to Pakistan. Coincidence? I think not.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:19 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
Who will pay for it to be mass-produced and distributed?
CureVac is a biopharmaceutical company, focused on developing vaccines for infectious diseases and drugs to treat for cancer and rare diseases. They've an own production facility. The distribution is done like it's done with any other medical product.

livinglava wrote:
What if developers keep it private and distribute it via secret networks of rich people who pay very high prices?
Vaccination is done here exclusively by medical practitioners ("doctors") here.
I sincerely doubt that someone can produce any medical product and earn money without selling it.

Besides that CureVac is listed as a member of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (Cepi).
Builder
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:48 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Coincidence? I think not.


Confirmation bias? I think so.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

livinglava wrote:
Who will pay for it to be mass-produced and distributed?
CureVac is a biopharmaceutical company, focused on developing vaccines for infectious diseases and drugs to treat for cancer and rare diseases. They've an own production facility. The distribution is done like it's done with any other medical product.

Are they going to produce and distribute it on a global scale then?

Quote:
livinglava wrote:
What if developers keep it private and distribute it via secret networks of rich people who pay very high prices?
Vaccination is done here exclusively by medical practitioners ("doctors") here.
I sincerely doubt that someone can produce any medical product and earn money without selling it.

The post I responded to said there were ethical problems with Trump buying exclusive rights to the vaccine for the US.

That implies that whoever owns the rights to the vaccine has a responsibility to sell it non-exclusively, doesn't it?

What I find interesting about this idea of vaccine rights and non-exclusive selling of rights is that you can't expect the patent-holder to just give away the rights for free, nor can you expect anyone to produce and distribute it for free; so that leaves the question of fair pricing for both the rights and the production/distribution, and I'm not sure how such fairness can be achieved at the global scale.
Builder
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 02:51 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Patients will be diagnosed and treated.


What I'm seeing, is a media-driven psychosis, where the "me-too" syndrome has taken hold of the masses.

People are "presenting" with next to no symptoms (it's flu/head cold season here anyways) and clogging the system, while exposing themselves to genuinely sick people.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:00 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
Are they going to produce and distribute it on a global scale then?
I'm not related to that company nor do I know how and to what countries they sell their their various vaccines generally
Brand X
 
  1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:07 pm
BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
· 51m
NEW: Illinois has joined Ohio in ordering the closure of all bars and restaurants for inside dining
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

livinglava wrote:
Are they going to produce and distribute it on a global scale then?
I'm not related to that company nor do I know how and to what countries they sell their their various vaccines generally

Ok, but I was not asking that question specifically with regard to what exactly that company is actually going to do.

It was just a general question about how a company that owns a patent and production rights to a vaccine that is urgently in demand globally is supposed to fairly produce and distribute the vaccine to everyone who wants/needs it?

If it's unethical for Trump to buy the rights and then keep them for the US exclusively, then is it any more ethical for any other owner/producer/distributor to produce/distribute the vaccine in a way that results in exclusion in one way or another?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:19 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Here's an example of a character posting an opinion and attempting to camouflage it with a misapplied "fact":
https://able2know.org/topic/355218-4124#post-6971961

Well I'll give you credit for at least attempting to back up the accusations against me.

But where in my post did I claim that anything (opinion or otherwise) is a fact???

That said, I'll claim one thing as a fact right now: It is a fact that the only reason why Joe Biden tries to violate people's civil liberties is because he derives sadistic pleasure from violating people's civil liberties.

But I am not claiming opinion as fact there. That is an actual fact. This fact is proven by the fact that no one can put forth any alternative motivation for his attempts to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:20 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Trump Supporters Know Where to Turn in a Crisis: To Him

I'm a Trump supporter.

I turned to myself for advice on how to deal with the crisis.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 03:41 pm
@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

But I am not claiming opinion as fact there. That is an actual fact. This fact is proven by the fact that no one can put forth any alternative motivation for his attempts to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles.

Sorry, but I do have an alternative motivation. He is a democrat and senses which way the democratic wind is blowing. That's opinion. I am hoping his position lightens up if and when he wins the nomination. That's only a hope.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:02 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
If it's unethical for Trump to buy the rights and then keep them for the US exclusively, then is it any more ethical for any other owner/producer/distributor to produce/distribute the vaccine in a way that results in exclusion in one way or another?
I've posted nothing about any other producer, don't know anything of such.

But as far as I know (just what has been published during the last two decades), this company sold their products without limitation.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:03 pm
@roger,
If Mr. Biden wants to violate people's civil liberties simply to get the support of progressive voters who want to violate people's civil liberties, that doesn't change the fact of the ultimate underlying motivation being the desire to violate people's civil liberties for sadistic pleasure. It merely shifts to sadism from Mr. Biden to progressives in general.

There is little chance that Mr. Biden will soften his position. He has a long history of being a hardliner on violating people's civil liberties for sadistic pleasure. However that only means that if he is elected he will waste all of his political capital in a futile fight against the NRA, much like Barack Obama did in the first hundred days of his second term. The end result will be an empty presidency where he is unable to achieve anything.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

livinglava wrote:
If it's unethical for Trump to buy the rights and then keep them for the US exclusively, then is it any more ethical for any other owner/producer/distributor to produce/distribute the vaccine in a way that results in exclusion in one way or another?
I've posted nothing about any other producer, don't know anything of such.

But as far as I know (just what has been published during the last two decades), this company sold their products without limitation.

If a vaccine really exists, and usable doses of it are available, some people have already bought and used it, but for some reason that's not in the news along with all the other COVID19 news, so that indicates that either this news of a vaccine is fake, or that it is being produced and distributed privately and in secret.

If there was a public bidding war for the vaccine and/or the rights to produce and distribute it, that would be major news right now.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:45 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
But I am not claiming opinion as fact there. That is an actual fact. This fact is proven by the fact that no one can put forth any alternative motivation for his attempts to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto rifles.


The reason for outlawing pistol grips on semi-automatic rifles is that it facilitates the use of kits which can be used to convert semi-automatic rifles to a functional fully-automatic operation. In the Waco/Branch Davidian debac;e. ATF obtained their search warrant on the basis of AR15 rifles possibly being modified to turn them effectively into M16 fully-automatic assault rifles. The WACO standoff began when people in the compound fired on ATF agents who came to serve the search warrant and conduct the search.

Quote:
The ATF used an affidavit filed by Davy Aguilera to obtain the warrant that led to the Waco siege. The official filing date of this Affidavit was 25th of February 1993. Allegedly, the initial investigation began in June of 1992 when a postal worker informed a Sheriff of McClennan County that he believed he had been delivering explosives to the ammo and gun store owned and operated by the Branch Davidians. This store, named the "Mag-Bag", had been identified by said postal worker as suspicious in deliveries. The postal worker continued deliveries to the Mt. Carmel Center and reported seeing manned observation posts; in the affidavit, it states he believed they were armed personnel at these observations posts.

The McClennan county sheriff was notified in May and June of that year of two cases of inert grenades, black gunpowder, 90 pounds of powdered aluminum metal, and 30-40 cardboard tubes. Furthermore, the sheriff noticed another shipment of sixty AR-15/M-16 magazines, to which Davy Aguilera made the statement, "I have been involved in many cases where defendants, following a relatively simple process, convert AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic rifles of the nature of the M-16" to justify the ATF's involvement in the case.

Another report was made to the Sheriff in November of 1992 by a local farmer who believed he heard machine gun fire. "By the sound of it," he said, "it was likely a .50 caliber machine gun and multiple M-16's." This farmer claimed he was very familiar with machine guns, having done a tour overseas in the U.S Army. The affidavit closes with Aguilera verifying the story via interviews made with associated parties and gun shops from which the Mag-Bag purchased items. Among these items were over forty-five AR-15 upper receivers and five M-16 upper receivers, which Aguilera clearly annotates, "These kits contain all the parts of an M-16 machine gun except for the lower receiver unit which is the "firearm" by lawful definition," admitting that neither the noise complaints nor the items ordered were necessarily illegal.


The Federal warrant was issued, not because the weapons were in themselves illegal, but because they could readily be converted to fully automatic weapons by the use of the upper receiver conversion kits. The objection to pistol grips on semi-automatic rifles is precisely that it facilitates the conversion of semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic operation. Your sick repetition of violating peoples' civil liberties for sadistic pleasure only serves to both show that you are parading your opinions as fact, and that the sick person here is you.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:58 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The reason for outlawing pistol grips on semi-automatic rifles is that it facilitates the use of kits which can be used to convert semi-automatic rifles to a functional fully-automatic operation.

That is incorrect. Pistol grips do nothing to facilitate the conversion of a weapon from semi-auto to full-auto.


Setanta wrote:
In the Waco/Branch Davidian debacle. ATF obtained their search warrant on the basis of AR15 rifles possibly being modified to turn them effectively into M16 fully-automatic assault rifles. The WACO standoff began when people in the compound fired on ATF agents who came to serve the search warrant and conduct the search.

If such conversions were carried out, pistol grips had nothing to do with them.


Setanta wrote:
The objection to pistol grips on semi-automatic rifles is precisely that it facilitates the conversion of semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic operation.

As I noted above, pistol grips do nothing to facilitate the conversion of a weapon from semi-auto to full-auto.


Setanta wrote:
Your sick repetition of violating peoples' civil liberties for sadistic pleasure only serves to both show that you are parading your opinions as fact, and that the sick person here is you.

Whether it is sick to point out facts is a matter of opinion.

However, you cannot provide any examples of me ever parading my opinions as fact.
Builder
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 04:58 pm
Sounds like a treasure trove to me.

0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Sun 15 Mar, 2020 05:06 pm
Matt Stoller
@matthewstoller
·
1m
Don't worry if you can't get a #coronavirus test, the Fed just cut rates.
 

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