192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Builder
 
  -3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:15 am
@hightor,
Quote:
..what we could have done if we'd chosen a Manchurian candidate with a working brain!


What you're suggesting, is that the US has a very poor grasp on the concept of democracy in general, and that half of the population don't have a clue.

Is that what you meant?
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:20 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
]No. We just acknowledge the reality that the only reason why leftists try to ban pistol grips on rifles is because leftists think it is fun to violate people's civil liberties.


Here's the reality, Orally. There's a BIG PROBLEM with mass murders in this country. And it doesn't seem to phase you one bit. You refuse to acknowledge that people wanting to curb gun violence don't do it for "fun" or to "violate civil liberties." I don't want any body's liberties violated, certainly not mine as well.

But there's too many loopholes. Too many people are dying at schools, shopping malls, night clubs and outdoor concerts. Access to weapons is as easy as buying a carton of milk, Go to any gun show and you can walk right out with one. Background checks are minimal if existent at all.

So is trying to limit the age requirement. If an 18 cannot buy a 9mm why is it a rifle (which is just as deadly) allowed? Mental health checks? Snort, you say, IT VIOLATES MY RIGHTS!!!!

You know what also "violates" people's rights? Being shot DEAD. And the people that want to slow down the carnage (because let's get real, there's always going to be murder) you call Leftist, as if that's a cure all to it.

You offer no solution, no compassion and absolutely no changing how things as simple as banning ONE particular type of accessory to make things just a little bit less easy for someone wanting to kill. So I ask you, what IS the purpose of a bump stock if it isn't to kill?

So let's hear how YOU, yes YOU intend on curbing gun violence. I'm sure the Sandy Hook parents are standing around with baited breath for your solution.
hightor
 
  3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:34 am
@Builder,
Quote:
What you're suggesting, is that the US has a very poor grasp on the concept of democracy in general, and that half of the population don't have a clue.

While that may be true it has nothing to do with my observation, which suggested that Russian intelligence might have gotten more bang for their buck with a puppet possessing more politically savvy than Donald Trump.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:49 am
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
Here's the reality, Orally. There's a BIG PROBLEM with mass murders in this country. And it doesn't seem to phase you one bit.
It doesn't seem to phase the gun control movement one bit either. They don't try to save lives. They just enjoy violating people's civil liberties.

neptuneblue wrote:
You refuse to acknowledge that people wanting to curb gun violence don't do it for "fun" or to "violate civil liberties."
If the reason for banning pistol grips on rifles is anything other than violating people's civil liberties for fun, what is that reason?

neptuneblue wrote:
I don't want any body's liberties violated, certainly not mine as well.
You do if you support banning pistol grips on rifles.

neptuneblue wrote:
But there's too many loopholes. Too many people are dying at schools, shopping malls, night clubs and outdoor concerts. Access to weapons is as easy as buying a carton of milk, Go to any gun show and you can walk right out with one. Background checks are minimal if existent at all.
If you want to close some loopholes, instead of trying to violate people's civil liberties for fun, try working with the NRA.

Link up tighter background checks with concealed carry reciprocity or the SHARE Act and you just might get some NRA backing.

neptuneblue wrote:
So is trying to limit the age requirement. If an 18 cannot buy a 9mm why is it a rifle (which is just as deadly) allowed?
Because the gun control movement said that handguns were a special danger and required a higher age to buy.

If you are allowed to raise the age to buy rifles to the same as the age to buy handguns, you will just turn around and go back to saying that handguns need to have a higher-yet buying age.

If you think it was a mistake to give handguns higher age requirements, the solution to that error is to lower the handgun buying age back to 18.

neptuneblue wrote:
Mental health checks? Snort, you say, IT VIOLATES MY RIGHTS!!!!
That's a bit vague. What exactly do you mean by mental health checks?

neptuneblue wrote:
You know what also "violates" people's rights? Being shot DEAD. And the people that want to slow down the carnage (because let's get real, there's always going to be murder) you call Leftist, as if that's a cure all to it.
Leftists are not trying to slow down any carnage. How does banning pistol grips on rifles slow down any carnage?

neptuneblue wrote:
You offer no solution, no compassion
Neither does the gun control movement. They are only in this for the joy that they get out of violating people's civil liberties.

neptuneblue wrote:
and absolutely no changing how things as simple as banning ONE particular type of accessory to make things just a little bit less easy for someone wanting to kill. So I ask you, what IS the purpose of a bump stock if it isn't to kill?
Where did I ever stand in the way of banning bump stocks?

neptuneblue wrote:
So let's hear how YOU, yes YOU intend on curbing gun violence. I'm sure the Sandy Hook parents are standing around with baited breath for your solution.
I don't intend to do anything about it. But if you are interested in curbing violence (regardless of whether a gun is involved) I can tell you the only solution that will work: strengthen our social safety net so that our poor no longer face third-world living standards.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:52 am
There are four basic reasons for the second ammendment in the United States.

Every one of the founding fathers is on record to the effect that private ownership of firearms, the 2'nd amendment, is there as a final bulwark against the possibility of government going out of control. That is the most major reason for it.

At the time of the revolution and for years afterwards, there were private armies, private ownership of cannons and warships. . . The term "letters of marque, and reprisal" which you read in the constitution indicates the notion of the government issuing a sort of a hunting license to the owner of a private warship to take English or other foreign national ships on the high seas, i.e. to either capture or sink them. The idea of you or me owning a Vepr or FAL rifle with a 30-round magazine is not likely to have bothered any of those people.

The problem with drug-dealers owning AKs is a drug problem and not a gun problem. Fix the drug-problem, i.e. get rid of the insane war on drugs and pass a rational set of drug laws, and both problems will simply go away. A rational set of drug laws would:

1. Legalize marijuana and all its derivatives and anything else demonstrably no more harmful than booze on the same basis as booze.

2. Declare that heroine, crack cocaine, and other highly addictive substances would never be legally sold on the streets, but that those addicted could shoot up at government centers for the fifty-cent cost of producing the stuff, i.e. take every dime out of that business for criminals.

3. Clamp a permanent legal lid down on top of anybody peddling LSD, PCP, and/or other Jeckyl/Hyde formulas.

4. Same for anybody selling any kind of drugs to kids.

Do all of that, and the drug problem, the gun problem, and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years.

But I digress. The 2'nd ammendment is there as a final bulwark against our own government going out of control. It is also there as a bulwark against any foreign invasion which our own military might not be able to stop.

Admiral Yamamoto, when asked by the Japanese general staff about the possibility of invading the American homeland, replied that there were fifty million lunatics in this country who owned military style weaponry, and that there would be "a rifle behind every blade of grass". This apparently bothered him a great deal more than the 200,000 or so guys in uniform prior to the war.

A third obvious reason for private ownership of firearms is to protect yourself and your family from criminals and wild animals. In fact, the second amendment is basically an idea whose time has come all over the world. Why on Earth should people in India tolerate having 80,000 of their number killed every year by snakes? That could simply not happen in a nation whose people were armed.

And there's a fourth reason for the 2'nd ammendment, which is to provide the people with food during bad economic times. When you listen to people from New York and from Texas talk about the depression of the 30's, you hear two totally different stories. The people in New York will tell you about people starving and eating garbage, and running around naked. The Texans (and others from more rural areas and places in which laws and customs had remained closer to those which the founding fathers envisioned) will tell you that while money was scarce, they always had 22 and 30 calibre ammunition, and that they always had something to eat, even if it was just some jackrabbit.

Eating is habit forming. In any sort of a down economic situation, that fourth rationale for the second amendment quickly becomes the most important.


There is no question that the United States pays a price for the second amendment and for the general ease with which Americans can obtain and use firearms. The question which you rarely see is that of whether that price is worth paying compared to available alternatives.

You don't have to dig very far back into history books to find the answer to that one. The really great and gigantic fonts of mass murder over the past hundred and fifty years or thereabouts has been governments. particularly of the fascist and communist variety and the problem has arisen precisely due to people being disarmed and unable to defend themselves. The body counts of those murders number in the tens of millions and not the occasional dozen or so which you read about in the United States due to lunatic problems or terrorism.

The question is, what kinds of prices have nations like Germany, Russia, Ukraine, China, and Japan paid for NOT having a second amendment..
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:53 am
@oralloy,
Great, another loud mouth shouting nothing.

farmerman
 
  4  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:54 am
@neptuneblue,
oralloy likes to try superlatives in his krees about what people want to do with guns. He is the sole supporter of the "All you DEMS are killing our civil rights because you want to ban pistol grips on our AR's". That, of course is just a lie. What the gun control lobby eto do is to make rapid fire large capacity clip weapons difficult to obtain or make them unobtainable. Oralloy just dwells on pistol grips and ignores the big clipped, semis (many of which can be convereted to full auto or can b fitted with after market"full auto add-ons" (like bump stocks).
I wish hed stop that since everyone can see through his method of debate. (If you cant just use facts, use irrelevant "Un facts" at the top of your voice).

izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:55 am
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:

. I'm sure the Sandy Hook parents are standing around with baited breath for your solution.


Have you read the vile abuse Oralloy has directed against Sandy Hook parents? It's disgusting, losing a child is bad enough without lowlifes insulting you and making death threats.

Not saying Oralloy has specifically contacted SH parents, but he's insulted them many a time on A2K, and there are plenty of other Alex Jones acolytes who have issued death threats.

Quote:
The parents of a 6-year-old victim of the Sandy Hook shooting have been forced to move homes seven times and now live hundreds of miles from their son’s grave due to near constant harassment from conspiracy theorists who claim the deadly massacre was a hoax.

Twenty small children and six adults were killed in less than five minutes on December 14, 2012, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, by 20-year-old killer Adam Lanza, who then turned the gun on himself.

“I would love to go see my son’s grave and I don’t get to do that, but we made the right decision,” Veronique De La Rosa, mother of 6-year-old Jewish student Noah Pozner, told the New York Times.

She added that each time she and her husband, Leonard Pozner, have moved, their whereabouts were published online “with the speed of light,” according to the report published Tuesday.

“They have their own community, and they have the ear of some very powerful people,” De La Rosa said.

The Pozners are among six families of victims of the mass shooting who in May filed a lawsuit against conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who has claimed the massacre never happened.

Jones, a Texas-based radio host and Donald Trump supporter, has claimed the massacre was staged and that the 26 bereaved families are paid actors, exposing the families to harassment, death threats, and personal attacks on social media.

Lawyers for the couple will attend a court hearing in Texas on Wednesday in the defamation suit against Jones.

Jones has filed his own lawsuit against the Pozner family, claiming their suit has violated his right to free speech and seeking more than $100,000 in court costs, the New York Times report said.

In the court documents, Jones reportedly said his claims that the massacre didn’t happen were “opinions” and thus more broadly protected by the US Constitution than factual statements.

He also claimed the Jewish parents were “public figures” because of their activism in favor of gun control — an argument that, if approved, would complicate efforts to prosecute Jones since actual malice would have to be proven.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/parents-of-jewish-sandy-hook-victim-forced-to-move-7-times-due-to-harassment/
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:57 am
Again, aside from the horrors which rogue governments have brought about in Germany, Russia, and China, there is still the problem in India. The price Indians pay for not having a second amendment of their own is having tens of thousands of their people killed by snakes every year.

That simply could not happen in a nation whose people were armed.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 05:59 am
I am no longer replying to any of izzythep...'s garbage, anybody can read four or five of the guy's posts and figure it out for themselves...
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:03 am
Part of the reason that the second amendment is such a third rail in US politics is that nobody would trust the person or persons who would be making the decisions as to who was or wasn't allowed to purchase firearms. I mean, we still live in a country where some tens of millions of people actually voted to put the Hilabeast in the white house.....
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:09 am
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
Great, another loud mouth shouting nothing.
Pointing out facts that you are unable to address is hardly shouting nothing.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:10 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
oralloy likes to try superlatives in his krees about what people want to do with guns.
All I do is state facts.

farmerman wrote:
He is the sole supporter of the "All you DEMS are killing our civil rights because you want to ban pistol grips on our AR's". That, of course is just a lie.
Wrong. When leftists try to ban pistol grips on rifles, it is entirely accurate to state that they are trying to ban pistol grips on rifles.

farmerman wrote:
What the gun control lobby eto do is to make rapid fire large capacity clip weapons difficult to obtain or make them unobtainable.
Their efforts to ban pistol grips on rifles says otherwise.

farmerman wrote:
Oralloy just dwells on pistol grips and ignores the big clipped, semis (many of which can be convereted to full auto or can b fitted with after market"full auto add-ons" (like bump stocks).
When leftists go around trying to violate civil liberties for fun, you should expect people who care about civil liberties to dwell on that fact.

farmerman wrote:
I wish hed stop that since everyone can see through his method of debate.
You would find it a lot easier if I stopped pointing out facts that you find highly inconvenient.

Too bad. I'm going to keep pointing out facts.

farmerman wrote:
(If you cant just use facts, use irrelevant "Un facts" at the top of your voice).
I always use facts. That's why you can never challenge anything that I say.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:11 am
@oralloy,
I've pointed out facts too. You're just unable to listen.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:14 am
@neptuneblue,
I addressed every one of your points. That is clear evidence that I listened.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:35 am
The political and military definitions of "assault rifle"... I posted this on a2k ages ago:

https://able2know.org/topic/203933-1

As I mentioned, the little lever-action henry rifle in 22mag would come close to meeting the military definition. The basic little $300 Ruger 10/22 in a magnum rimfire caliber might also suffice. The 10/22 does have detachable magazines.

The political definition is basically just something which looks frightening to demokkkrats. Ideal candidates would be the Israeli FAL with the heavy barrel or that Swiss semiauto rifle which replaced the K31 and which is called STGW-57 and uses the same ammo as the K31

https://media.moddb.com/cache/images/groups/1/3/2973/thumb_620x2000/SIG_510_ultra_res.jpg

http://www.swissrifles.com/pe57/stgw57.jpg


0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  7  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:38 am
@oralloy,
See, youve made mypoint. You , in your feeble response attempt, NEVER mentioned large cap clips and rapid fire semi-autos, and after market full auto appliances. You only talk about "pistol grips" like its some feeble reason that "AR styles"need some control.

YOUVE MADE MY POINT -THANK YOU. You stepped in it by showing me that youre entire argument is made of just one rather cartoonish .
point .

izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:39 am
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that being a member of the NRA is conditional on having part of one's brain removed.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:45 am
Inspector Fowler has the right idea.

oralloy
 
  -4  
Mon 7 Jan, 2019 06:48 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
See, youve made mypoint.
When I show that you are completely wrong, that doesn't exactly make your point.

farmerman wrote:
You, in your feeble response attempt,
Facts are hardly feeble. They invariably demolish your entire position.

farmerman wrote:
NEVER mentioned large cap clips and rapid fire semi-autos, and after market full auto appliances. You only talk about "pistol grips" like its some feeble reason that "AR styles"need some control.
Wrong. I talk about pistol grips on rifles as if the left is trying to ban them.

The left are the ones who talk about pistol grips on rifles as if they were some feeble reason that AR style guns need control.

Falsely accusing me of making the arguments that I am actually refuting is a logical fallacy.

farmerman wrote:
YOUVE MADE MY POINT -THANK YOU.
When I show that you are completely wrong, that doesn't exactly make your point.

farmerman wrote:
You stepped in it by showing me that youre entire argument is made of just one rather cartoonish point.
A fact that you have no ability to address.

Claiming that a fact is cartoonish does not prevent that fact from demolishing your position.
0 Replies
 
 

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