Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 07:05 am
@layman,
If they find these millions of illegal votes, however, ...

Quote:
http://i64.tinypic.com/15nrdc9.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2ynm1xd.jpg
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 08:44 am
How much could Trump’s education secretary damage public schools? Just look at Detroit.
Quote:

Now, Detroit has the second largest share of students in charter schools, at 44 percent, behind New Orleans. Each year, nearly $1 billion of taxpayer money goes to charter schools, but oversight is very weak, according to a yearlong investigation by the Detroit Free Press released in August.

The investigation, which looked at 20 years of charter school records, found evidence of wasteful spending, schools with poor academic records that continue to enroll students for years, and school staff using their positions to profit off of deals for themselves or others. It also found that many charter schools run by for-profit companies did not disclose how they spend taxpayer money.

Some states make it clear that charter authorizers are supposed to provide oversight and accountability to schools in exchange for revenue, but that is not the case in Michigan, The Atlantic reported. An Education Trust-Midwest report released in February found that Michigan charter authorizers “face almost no accountability” for their performance.

Another issue in Michigan is the involvement of for-profit companies in charter schools. The state allows a wide range of education institutions to create charters — such as school districts, community colleges, and universities — and receive 3 percent of the money that goes to those schools. They also get the huge benefit of being the only entities with the power to
close schools that are underperforming. Now, for-profit companies operate 80 percent of charters in Michigan, according to The New York Times.

Given the fact that Trump himself ran a for-profit “university,” it’s easy to see why he would want an education secretary who has a record of supporting the involvement of for-profit companies in public education.

Although the average charter school student in Detroit is making greater gains than public school students in Detroit, data on proficiency in math and reading show that both charter school and public schools have a long road to improving students’ academic performance.

Only 17 percent of Detroit charter school students were rated proficient in math, compared to 13 percent of students in traditional public schools, according to Michigan Association of Public School Academies data released in 2015. Forty-three percent of Detroit charter students were rated proficient in reading compared with 39 percent of students in traditional public schools. Compared to the state average, these scores are still low. Eight in 10 Michigan charters had academic achievement below the state average in both reading and math, according to a Center for Research on Educational Outcomes at Stanford University report.

The steady growth of charter schools in Detroit comes at a time when the Detroit Public School system is struggling financially. Last spring, DPS filed a lawsuit against the state claiming it violated the civil rights of students through its emergency manager law. The district has been run by emergency managers since 2009, weakening the authority of the board of education and allowing an unelected emergency manager to make decisions about school finances. In a separate suit filed against the state by Detroit schoolchildren, they claim lack of state funding in city schools has denied them literacy. Attorneys for Gov. Rick Snyder and state education officials said there is no fundamental right to literacy for Detroit students.

Teachers have been bringing awareness to the issue of poor funding of Detroit schools in the form of protests. Last January, teachers protested the conditions of public schools and took photos of inedible food, damaged school buildings, and dead rodents and posted them on social media. Since then, there have inspections of schools, which confirmed that many schools were unsafe places for kids.

In the midst of all of these issues, DeVos has pushed for less regulation and oversight of charter schools and stated that public schools are failing children — all without advocating for better state funding of public schools.

David Hecker, president of the American Federation of Teachers in Michigan, told The Detroit News that the choice of DeVos would be “devastating for public education.”

Hecker added, “She wants her million and billionaire friends to profit off of childhood education.”

layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:03 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:


David Hecker, president of the American Federation of Teachers in Michigan, told The Detroit News that the choice of DeVos would be “devastating for public education.”

Hecker added, “She wants her million and billionaire friends to profit off of childhood education.”


Heckler said, eh? A member of a teacher's union? Like, whooda thunk, I ask ya?

Is there a shred of evidence that Betsy DeVos, who has devoted years of her life and many millions of dollars to improving education, her husband, or anyone else in her family has ever invested a single cent in charter schools?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:17 am
@revelette2,
Detroit is bankrupt and its failing school system and other local functions have been taken over, in accordance with state law, due to their long term failure to operate effective schols, manage their public funds and evidence of graft and waste with those funds. The school board is a relic of decades of inefficiency and corruption in the local government, and in observable fact is loyal only to the local teachers union. The bogus civil rights lawsuit will likely be dismissed: it is merely yet another effort by the school board to evade public accountability. It's permanent explanation for decades of failure is the lack of funding.

The charter schools that have raised the measured math and reading proficiency of Detroit students by 4% have reversed a decades long decline in those measures at the hands of the fsiled public schools.
They have done it with significantly less per capita funding for the students they teach. than thst of the corrupt public schools, whichcontinue to lag them in effectiveness. The funds diverted from the public schools to the charter schools that out-perform them are a good deal less than the percapita finds the public schools enjoy, so there is a net financial gain for the public schools in the transaction.

Public schools have become a long standing monopoly, controlled by self serving "professionsl educators" and teachers unions that seek only to preserve that monopoly, and do so without oversight or accountability for what they fail to achieve. The whole point of charter schools is competition and some free choice by the parents of families that are the victims of this monopoly. That is anathema to the public school establishment and teachers unions, which seek only to preserve their monopoly, eliminate competition and free choice , and continue to fail the public they claim to serve.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:18 am
@layman,
To me, that is the least important part of the whole article. There are plenty of others who have invested in charter schools who stand to profit. The main point is the quality of education in Detroit due to Devos and the charter schools and shape of public schools due to lack of funding.

Quote:
Only 17 percent of Detroit charter school students were rated proficient in math, compared to 13 percent of students in traditional public schools, according to Michigan Association of Public School Academies data released in 2015. Forty-three percent of Detroit charter students were rated proficient in reading compared with 39 percent of students in traditional public schools. Compared to the state average, these scores are still low. Eight in 10 Michigan charters had academic achievement below the state average in both reading and math, according to a Center for Research on Educational Outcomes at Stanford University report.

The steady growth of charter schools in Detroit comes at a time when the Detroit Public School system is struggling financially. Last spring, DPS filed a lawsuit against the state claiming it violated the civil rights of students through its emergency manager law. The district has been run by emergency managers since 2009, weakening the authority of the board of education and allowing an unelected emergency manager to make decisions about school finances. In a separate suit filed against the state by Detroit schoolchildren, they claim lack of state funding in city schools has denied them literacy. Attorneys for Gov. Rick Snyder and state education officials said there is no fundamental right to literacy for Detroit students.

Teachers have been bringing awareness to the issue of poor funding of Detroit schools in the form of protests. Last January, teachers protested the conditions of public schools and took photos of inedible food, damaged school buildings, and dead rodents and posted them on social media. Since then, there have inspections of schools, which confirmed that many schools were unsafe places for kids.

In the midst of all of these issues, DeVos has pushed for less regulation and oversight of charter schools and stated that public schools are failing children — all without advocating for better state funding of public schools.


The charter schools are failing the children too but I see she makes no mention of that, meanwhile the publics have to put up unsafe conditions in their schools so that tax dollars can go to "less regulated and oversight" charter schools.

I have nothing against Charter schools as long as they keep their grubby hands off the public tax money which should be going to public schools.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:28 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:


The charter schools are failing the children too but I see she makes no mention of that...


As I previously posted (perhaps in another thread, I've forgotten now) according to what the New York Times called a "highly respected" report on Michigan schools (charter vs. public) the improvement is quite pronounced. It concluded that charter schools out-performed public ones at the rate of 3 months PER YEAR.

That is a HUGE improvement. Overall performance may still be sub-par, but any such improvement should be welcomed, not dismissed as trivial and insignificant.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:30 am
@Lash,
Disallow= armed revolt.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:36 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Disallow= armed revolt.


Certainly not by the majority, eh, John. They will be told that democracy has been "saved" and most of them will believe it, I figure.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:37 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

To me, that is the least important part of the whole article. There are plenty of others who have invested in charter schools who stand to profit. The main point is the quality of education in Detroit due to Devos and the charter schools and shape of public schools due to lack of funding.
You have correctly identified the main point but almost laughably ignored the facts related to the issue.

1. The City of Detroit and all of its public agencies, including the public schools are now run by State appointed managers and agencies in accordance with Michigan law as a result of decades of graft, misuse of public funds and failures to operate effective systems. The public schools there are but one of many such bankrupy sand failed organizations. The civil rights lawsuit filed by the BOE is merely stunt to distract attention and evade those actions : it will almost certainly be dismissed as without merit given these facts.

2, The charter schools you decry have already reversed a decades long trend of decay and underperformance by the public schools, already achieving significant improvements, and doing so with less percapits funding than is enjoyed by the failing public schools with which they compete. Clearly funding is neither the problem nor the remedy here.

3. It strongly appears that the only "grubby hands" on public educational funds in Detroit are those of the School Board and the teachers unions.



giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:43 am
@revelette2,
The Detroit Free Press is just another liberal rag owned by Gannet... their bias is obvious and any "investigation" should be suspect irrespective of the fact that they endorse the Republican governor... Which was just a ruse.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:46 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I think this thread title was premature.

I think the establishment will disallow the election.


Nonsense, nothing is going to change.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 09:52 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Nonsense, nothing is going to change.


Ya never know, Gent. I read an article (too lazy to try to locate it again now) which said lawyers who represented Bush (and other lawyers "on the right") are arguing that the law requires the electoral college to vote against Trump.

The theory seems to be that if any of Trump's companies accept fair value payment in return for services rendered from anybody in business, then he is illegally accepting a "gift"

When this is coming from "the right," as well as the left, you gotta wonder.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 10:00 am
@layman,
I certainly don't want to see a Revolt of any kind but that's exactly what they're courting if they try to disallow Trump presidency. But then again I'm not too worried on the 19th of December his presidency will be certified and he will be sworn in on January 20th I have no doubt and I'm confident of that.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 12:00 pm
@georgeob1,
This is the problem with govt solving problems, when their idea's fail they don't reconsider their options, instead like a desperate gambling addict they double down and hope things go better. They never realize that their failures were the bad idea's, not a lack of trying.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 12:12 pm
@Baldimo,
If the charter schools are so good, let them have it, just don't use tax dollars for schools who do not have to be accountable to the tax payers and where the tax payers have no say in what goes on in the charter schools. If the charter schools are held accountable and if community of the schools get a say in the schools, I would have no problem with tax dollars going to them. If it is otherwise, the tax dollars should go to the public schools where the public community has oversight over the schools and has a say in it.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 12:58 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

If the charter schools are so good, let them have it, just don't use tax dollars for schools who do not have to be accountable to the tax payers and where the tax payers have no say in what goes on in the charter schools. If the charter schools are held accountable and if community of the schools get a say in the schools, I would have no problem with tax dollars going to them. If it is otherwise, the tax dollars should go to the public schools where the public community has oversight over the schools and has a say in it.


The Charter Schools in Michigan operate under charters issued by the state. These charters, and the funding that goes with them, can be removed or rescinded at the state's discretion. revelette's claim that these schools are not accountable to tax payers and the state is simply false and deceitful.

The real point at issue here is that they are not accountable to the Detroit School Board and the Teacher's union. That is simply a consequence of the ongoing bankrupcy of the City and the complete failure of the local government operating system. The state's intervention is a direct consequencew and in doing so it is helping the city survive and avoid the consequences of its prolonged misgovernment under a sries of corrupt administrations, going back 50 years.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 02:30 pm
@georgeob1,
I said, "if" George. If you are going to engage me I wish you would stop putting words or meanings in my post I never said or intended. If (notice the word "if") Devos has her way there will less oversight and accountability to the charter schools.

Quote:
In the midst of all of these issues, DeVos has pushed for less regulation and oversight of charter schools and stated that public schools are failing children — all without advocating for better state funding of public schools


Which gives an insight into the kind of Secretary of Education she would be.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 02:31 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
If the charter schools are so good, let them have it, just don't use tax dollars for schools who do not have to be accountable to the tax payers and where the tax payers have no say in what goes on in the charter schools.


If the taxpayers are sending their children to charter schools, why shouldn't their money go towards the school they chose to send their children to? They are very accountable to taxpayers, they are the customers. I'm pretty sure they have a higher level of control over the school then they would at a govt school. After all isn't the school accountable to the parents of the children who go there? Just like govt schools the money charter schools receive is based on the number of kids who go there and if the school fails to perform, the parents will pull their kids and go to another school. Do you think parents are happy when teachers go on strike? If the teachers unions cared about the kids, which they don't, they wouldn't encourage strikes, they would make the teachers to what they are paid to do, teach the children.






Quote:
If the charter schools are held accountable and if community of the schools get a say in the schools, I would have no problem with tax dollars going to them. If it is otherwise, the tax dollars should go to the public schools where the public community has oversight over the schools and has a say in it.

Tax money and schools has nothing to do with accountability, it has to do with feeding the Teachers Unions a steady supply of cash. The teachers don't want the parents to have any control. They don't have a high opinion of parents and their opinion on education, after all who is better to call the shots at the schools, the inexperienced parents who don't know anything about education or the paid professionals?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 02:35 pm
@Baldimo,
In public schools there are all kinds of oversight, both official and programs schools have. Parents just do not engage as much as they should.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2016 02:39 pm
Personally I agree to disagree with ya'll. All you guys are doing are giving me the right wing talking points on public schools. I can go to websites to get more of the same if I wanted, which I don't.

In event, moving on: read an interesting article which made me chuckle a minute ago.

Texas Elector to Resign Instead of Voting for Trump

Good. Fight however we can and let em' say what they want. BTW, he is republican.
 

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