10
   

Are the presidential election results real? Or simply a simulation?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 08:29 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Wonder what would happen if a billionaire offered electors a million dollars each if they would vote for him? Its the next step in the destruction of our democracy.


Doing the math...

That would mean that said billionaire would get 1000 votes. That's pretty insignificant out of the hundred million votes cast.

giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 08:48 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Wonder what would happen if a billionaire offered electors a million dollars each if they would vote for him? Its the next step in the destruction of our democracy.


You can't destroy something that we don't have... This is not a democracy it's a constitutional representative republic.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 08:57 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Mr Trump "has shredded American values, American morals, American compassion, American tolerance, American decency, American sense of common purpose, American very identity — all the things that, however tenuously, made a nation out of a country." (excerpt from Farewell, America by Neal Gabler, I've replaced "our" with "American")

Yes, Mr.Trump may be the next president. But it is simply a president of a country, not a nation of American People.



       https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.M20e934a94be57431157b8c00b99b9a83o0&pid=15.1
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 08:57 am
@maxdancona,
Man, I was willing to settle for a BJ from Madonna. A million bucks? I'd trade my vote for that as well I suppose. Unless I move, then we'd have to see.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 11:13 am
@McGentrix,
Madonna? Really, McGentrix. That's who you are going with?

Some 30 years ago I spent some of my scarce money to buy a Hustler magazine because it featured Madonna. I still regret the waste of money, and that was 30 years ago)

(I am assuming you are referring to the aging pop star rather than the Blessed Mother of God.)
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 12:41 pm
@maxdancona,
Older women are more willing to do the things I want to do because they know they will enjoy it too. Plus, they already know what they are doing. Add fame into it and that's just going to be fun.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:52 pm
@Baldimo,
Would still like to get a look at the dark money the S C made legal.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:53 pm
@oristarA,
These are republican values and have been since Reagan.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:54 pm
@McGentrix,
But we dont have to be as happy as idiots who voted for him.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:57 pm
@maxdancona,
Come Max. Electors can vote however they want. They are not required to vote as the states want them too. You knew what I meant. Your better than Mc g's crap.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2016 09:26 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Mr Trump "has shredded American values, American morals, American compassion, American tolerance, American decency, American sense of common purpose, American very identity — all the things that, however tenuously, made a nation out of a country." (excerpt from Farewell, America by Neal Gabler, I've replaced "our" with "American")

Yes, Mr.Trump may be the next president. But it is simply a president of a country, not a nation of American People.


Correction: "American very identity" should have been "the very identity of Americans."

Your grammatical opinion will be appreciated here.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 07:02 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The electors (i.e. the 538 people who we chose to elect our president) are technically free to cast their votes as they wish. If 270 electors decide to vote for Hillary... than Hillary will be president in spite of the results of the election.

However....

The electors are chosen by the political parties. That means that 290 of the electors were chosen by the Republican parties of the states. You can be pretty sure that these electors were chosen as people who are certain to vote for Trump.

There have been a few cases of "faithless electors" (i.e. electors who didn't vote for the candidate that they are supposed to vote for). You can google it.

But it doesn't matter. Trump will be our next president.



No, you don't understand, Max. If the electors strictly abide by the Constitution, they will reject Trump and will elect Hillary as the next president of the United States:

Quote:

The Electoral College Was Meant to Stop Men Like Trump From Being President

The founders envisioned electors as people who could prevent an irresponsible demagogue from taking office.

PETER BEINART NOV 21, 2016 POLITICS


Americans talk about democracy like it’s sacred. In public discourse, the more democratic American government is, the better. The people are supposed to rule.

But that’s not the premise that underlies America’s political system. Most of the men who founded the United States feared unfettered majority rule. James Madison wrote in Federalist 10 that systems of government based upon “pure democracy … have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property.” John Adams wrote in 1814 that, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself.”

The framers constructed a system that had democratic features. The people had a voice. They could, for instance, directly elect members of the House of Representatives. But the founders also self-consciously limited the people’s voice.

The Bill of Rights is undemocratic. It limits the federal government’s power in profound ways, ways the people often dislike. Yet the people can do almost nothing about it. The Supreme Court is undemocratic, too. Yes, the people elect the president (kind of, more on that later), who appoints justices of the Supreme Court, subject to approval by the Senate, which these days is directly elected, too. But after that, the justices wield their extraordinary power for as long as they wish without any democratic accountability. The vast majority of Americans may desperately want their government to do something. The Supreme Court can say no. The people then lose, unless they pass a constitutional amendment, which is extraordinarily difficult, or those Supreme Court justices die.

That’s the way the framers wanted it. And, oddly, it’s the way most contemporary Americans want it too. Americans say they revere democracy. Yet they also revere those rights—freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms—that the government’s least democratic institutions protect. Americans rarely contemplate these contradictions. If they did, they might be more open to preventing Donald Trump from becoming the next president, the kind of democratic catastrophe that the Constitution, and the Electoral College in particular, were in part designed to prevent.

Donald Trump was not elected on November 8. Under the Constitution, the real election will occur on December 19. That’s when the electors in each state cast their votes.

The Constitution says nothing about the people as a whole electing the president. It says in Article II that “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors.” Those electors then vote for president and vice-president. They can be selected “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” Which is to say, any way the state legislature wants. In 14 states in the early 19th century, state legislatures chose their electors directly. The people did not vote at all.

This ambiguity about how to choose the electors was the result of a compromise. James Madison and some other framers favored some manner of popular vote for president. Others passionately opposed it. Some of the framers wanted Congress to choose the president. Many white southerners supported the Electoral College because it counted their non-voting slaves as three-fifths of a person, and thus gave the South more influence than it would have enjoyed in a national vote. The founders compromised by leaving it up to state legislatures. State legislatures could hand over the selection of electors to the people as a whole. In that case, the people would have a voice in choosing their president. But—and here’s the crucial point—the people’s voice would still not be absolute. No matter how they were selected, the electors would retain the independence to make their own choice.


It is “desirable,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 68, “that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of” president. But is “equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station.” These “men”—the electors––would be “most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.” And because of their discernment—because they possessed wisdom that the people as a whole might not—“the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”

As Michael Signer explains, the framers were particularly afraid of the people choosing a demagogue. The electors, Hamilton believed, would prevent someone with “talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. And they would combat “the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” They would prevent America’s adversaries from meddling in its elections. The founders created the Electoral College, in other words, in part to prevent the election of someone like Donald Trump.

To modern American ears, it sounds insanely undemocratic for electors to ignore the will of the people of their state. But were Hamilton alive, he might wonder why Americans find this undemocratic feature of the Electoral College so outrageous while taking its other undemocratic features virtually for granted. For instance, each state gets as many electors as it has members of the House of Representatives and Senate. (The District of Columbia now gets a few, too). That is itself undemocratic. It’s undemocratic because while representatives are allocated between the states via population, senators are not. Each state gets two: Whether it has 38 million people (California) or half a million (Wyoming). Because states, not people, are represented equally in the Senate, the Senate is undemocratic. And because a state’s number of electors is based partly on its number of senators, the Electoral College is thus partially undemocratic too.

Moreover, every state except Nebraska and Maine allocates its electors based on the principle of winner take all. Win California by one vote and you get all its electors. For that reason, too, the Electoral College does not always reflect the popular vote. In two of the last five presidential elections, in fact, the candidate who received the most votes—Al Gore in 2000 and Hillary Clinton in 2016—has lost the Electoral College. Americans are mildly but not profoundly disturbed by this. Most of the people protesting Donald Trump’s election are not protesting because he lost the popular vote. When George W. Bush became president after losing the popular vote in 2000, there were protests, but no real question about the inevitability of his taking office. In this way, as in many others, Americans comfortably accept undemocratic elements of America’s system of government even as they profess publicly that democracy is sacrosanct.

In truth, Americans are wedded less to democracy than to familiarity. They accept those undemocratic features of the Electoral College, and of American government in general, to which they’re accustomed. They value things as they are.

This makes sense. Americans are used to choosing presidents in a particular way. As the University of Michigan constitutional law professor Richard Primus pointed out to me, they’re like a family that for as long as anyone can remember has been playing a board game by a certain set of rules. What happens if, in the middle of a game, one player consults the instructions, finds that the actual rules are different, and proposes suddenly abiding by them instead? The other players—especially those who would be disadvantaged by the change—will likely refuse.


Were the electors to meet on December 19 and decide that Donald Trump is unfit to be president, all hell would break loose. Trump’s supporters, and even some who opposed him, would say the election had been stolen. Their worst fears about America’s “rigged” system of government would be confirmed. The president who the electors chose—even if it were Hillary Clinton, who beat Trump by over a million votes—would lack legitimacy in the eyes of much of the public. It’s unclear whether such a president could effectively govern. Violence might break out. Moreover, once the precedent was set, future electors would become more likely to act independently again. The process of choosing them would grow fraught. America’s entire system of presidential elections would grow unstable.

It’s a terrifying prospect. The prospect of a Trump presidency, however, is terrifying too, terrifying in unprecedented ways. Which is why, for the first time in modern American history, there’s a plausible case for urging the electors to vote their consciences. The case is not overwhelming. But it’s not absurd. It all depends on how dangerous you think President Trump would be.

Could the danger posed by electing Trump exceed the enormous danger posed by stopping him? It could, for four reasons.

The first is climate change. Trump has repeatedly called it a “hoax.” He’s vowed to “cancel” America’s obligations under the climate agreement signed last year in Paris, which might lead other nations to do the same, and to undo the restrictions on emissions from coal-fired power plants instituted by the Obama administration. According to a study by Lux Research, America’s annual carbon emissions, which would have dropped under a Clinton presidency, will rise sharply under Trump. And if emissions don’t drop, an article this spring in the journal Nature predicts that 13 million Americans who live in coastal areas could find their communities uninhabitable over the next century. Half of Florida’s population would be at risk.


The second reason to think that allowing a Trump presidency might be more dangerous than overturning it is the threat of nuclear war. At several points over the last 70 years, presidents have faced decisions that could have trigged nuclear catastrophe. Harry Truman considered dropping atomic bombs on North Korea in 1950. John F. Kennedy famously said during the Cuban missile crisis that the chances of war with the Soviet Union were “between 1 in 3 and even.” According to Israeli historian Dmitry Adamsky, the Reagan administration’s 1983 war game, Able Archer, which the Soviets misinterpreted as preparation for an American attack, “almost became a prelude to a preventative nuclear strike.” As Jeffrey Goldberg has noted, North Korea—the most bellicose and erratic regime on earth--may have nuclear missiles that can reach the US mainland by the end of Trump’s second term. Which increases the chances that he could face his own moment of nuclear reckoning. In August, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough reported that, during a private meeting with a “foreign policy expert,” Trump had asked the expert “three times, in an hour briefing, ‘Why can’t we use nuclear weapons?’” In March, Trump asked Chris Matthews, “Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn’t fight back with a nuke?” Trump has also repeatedly declared his desire to be “unpredictable” when it comes to the use of nuclear weapons.

The president can launch nuclear weapons within minutes, on his own authority. In the words of former National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden, “The system is designed for speed and decisiveness. It’s not designed to debate the decision.” Trump is famous for his impulsivity (his self-destructive late night tweets almost cost him the presidential race), his policy ignorance (he twice during the campaign seemed unaware that the US has nuclear weapons on air, land and sea) and his dismissive attitude toward experts (in November he boasted that, “I know more about ISIS than the generals do.”) Which is why 50 former Republican national security officials warned in August that he “would be the most reckless president in American history.”


Does all this mean that, under President Trump, nuclear war is likely? No. But it does mean that it’s significantly more likely than under Hillary Clinton or any other plausible alternative.

The third reason it’s not crazy for electors to consider defying the popular will in their states is the prospect of what Trump might do in the event of a terrorist attack. Last November, Trump said he’d require Muslims to register in a government database. In December, after jihadist terrorists killed 14 people and seriously injured 22 in San Bernardino, California, he demanded a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Trump has also barred numerous reporters from his rallies, vowed to make it easier to sue journalists for libel and called for investigating Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos’ tax returns in retaliation for his paper’s critical coverage of Trump’s campaign.

What might a President Trump do if terrorists killed hundreds or even thousands on American soil? During times of war and cold war, even more sober presidents have massively violated individual freedom. During World War I, Woodrow Wilson signed the Sedition Act, which made “uttering, printing, writing, or publishing any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States government or military” a crime. FDR interned Japanese-Americans during World War II. John F. Kennedy allowed J. Edgar Hoover to bug Martin Luther King’s phone. We don’t know how Trump would respond in a moment of national hysteria, when restricting press freedom and persecuting unpopular minorities became seductively easy. We do know that, based on his past statements, he’d be less restrained by the Bill of Rights than any president in recent memory.


The final reason it’s worth debating an Electoral College rejection of Trump is the potential that his presidency could spark a constitutional crisis. During the campaign, in a stunning break from American tradition, Trump repeatedly suggested that he might not accept the outcome. As one Trump ally told Politico, “If he loses, [he’ll say] ‘It’s a rigged election…I can’t really picture him giving a concession speech, whatever the final margin.”

If defeated in his bid for a second term, would Trump leave the White House? Would he leave if Congress impeached him? Would he abide by a decision of the Supreme Court that thwarted his agenda? “I can easily see a situation in which he would take the Andrew Jackson line,” declared the eminent libertarian-conservative legal scholar Richard Epstein in June. “[Chief Justice] John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.”

The problem with all these hypothetical scenarios is that they’re just that: hypothetical. The dangers posed by a Trump presidency are speculative. The dangers posed by using the Electoral College to forestall a Trump presidency are more certain. Moreover, some of the very characteristics that make a Trump presidency so frightening also make his response to being defeated by the electors frightening. If Trump was prepared to the contest defeat on November 8, it’s hard to imagine him accepting it on December 19.

Luckily for Trump, the chances of the electors actually defeating him on that date are extremely slim. Two electors from states that supported Hillary Clinton are reportedly trying to convince their colleagues from states that supported Trump to vote for other Republicans, thus denying Trump a majority and sending the presidential election to the House of Representatives.


But these days, electors are not the independent-minded figures Hamilton envisioned. They’re party activists chosen for their loyalty. Many states even have laws requiring electors to abide by the popular vote, though David Pozen, a law professor at Columbia (and author of a smart recent blog post on Trump and the Electoral College) told me that such laws may well be unconstitutional.

If it’s so unlikely that the electors would defeat Trump, why is the topic even worth discussing? Because, given Trump’s likely ascension to the presidency, Americans must talk differently about democracy itself. Yes, the democratic features of America’s political system are precious. But so are some of the undemocratic ones, the ones that prevent people’s basic rights from being taken from them by a show of hands. Right now, the nature of American public discourse—which treats democracy as an unambiguous good—makes that difficult to say. Rarely do Americans publicly acknowledge the tradeoff between democracy and liberty, between popular will and minority rights, which so concerned the framers. If Trump threatens the rights of Muslims or journalists, if he pressures the Federal Reserve or defies the Supreme Court, he will likely do so in democracy’s name. He may have public opinion on his side. If Americans can’t defend their system’s limitations on democracy, they’ll have trouble resisting him.

Democracy is a crucial component of American government. But, as Fareed Zakaria has argued, more democracy isn’t always better. For most of American history, political parties were not internally democratic. They aren’t in most democracies around the world. Yet during the primaries, when GOP elites sought to block Trump’s nomination, the media generally described their efforts as undemocratic. Which made them almost impossible to publicly defend.

I didn’t defend them either. I was wrong. Before this election, I supported abolishing the Electoral College. Now I think America needs electors who, in times of national emergency, can prevent demagogues from taking power.

Go ahead and call me an elitist; Donald Trump has changed the way I view American government. Before this year, I would have considered Hamilton’s demand for independent-minded electors who could prevent candidates with “talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from winning the presidency to be antiquated and retrograde. Now I think the framers were prescient and I was naïve. Eighteen months ago, I could never have imagined President Donald Trump. Now I’m grateful that, two hundred and twenty-seven years ago, they did.




Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 10:06 am
@oristarA,
Let's say the EC does as you and the rest of the cry babies suggest and not put Trump in office. The only way this wouldn't be seen as a stolen election would be to elect someone not from the main parties. To put Hillary in office would set off something I don't think you really want to deal with. If would have to be someone from a third party and from neither of the 2 main parties, anything else would be seen as a power grab by the other side.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 11:22 am
@Baldimo,
You've forgotten that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.
And Trump has been crying all along "It’s a rigged election!" Could he eat his words? Since being rigged, why doesn't Mr Trump exit and go home gracefully?
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 11:53 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
You've forgotten that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

You've forgotten that the President isn't elected by popular vote, so it doesn't matter. Now if one of the states went for Trump and it turns out she won the vote in those states, then we might have something, but the popular vote doesn't matter for ****. Get over it.

Quote:
And Trump has been crying all along "It’s a rigged election!" Could he eat his words? Since being rigged, why doesn't Mr Trump exit and go home gracefully?

What was rigged? The Constitution?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 02:22 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
No, you don't understand, Max. If the electors strictly abide by the Constitution, they will reject Trump and will elect Hillary as the next president of the United States:


Huh? I tried to read the article. It seems like a bunch of ideological nonsense.

You are appealing to the Constitution... maybe you can point out where in the Constitution it says that the electors should reject Trump?

Here is a link. The relevant section is Article 2 Section 1... and the 12th Amendment.

http://constitutionus.com/

I think your claim is complete nonsense. But maybe you can show me the part of the US Constitution on which you base this claim.

Trump will be the next president.

12th Amendment of the US Constitution wrote:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;—The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;—The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.14 —The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 02:34 pm
@Baldimo,
Funnily enough, Mr. Trump just told the NYT that he prefers popular vote to the Electoral College.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/11/new-york-times-trump-popular-vote-231750

of course that was after he tweeted that he liked the Electoral College which was after he said it was a disaster

what a guy! an opinion for everyone


Quote:
President-elect Donald Trump would “rather do the popular vote” and was “never a fan of the electoral college,” according to a tweet by New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman.

Haberman quoted Trump making these remarks at his meeting with the newspaper's editorial staff on Tuesday.

Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton in the Nov. 8 election by winning 290 Electoral College votes despite losing the popular vote by more than 1.7 million votes.

“The Electoral College is actually genius in that it brings all states, including the smaller ones, into play," Trump tweeted after the election. "Campaigning is much different!”

That tweet represented a 180-degree reversal from 2012, when he tweeted in response to Barack Obama's defeat of Mitt Romney, “The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."



I'm Laughing while Set is Rolling Eyes
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 02:54 pm
@ehBeth,
I could careless what Trump said, I wasn't speaking in defense of Trump, I was speaking in defense of the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about the popular vote and that was my point. How many states did Trump win, how many states did Hillary win? Who got 270 votes or more?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2016 03:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Had it been a popular vote, Trump would have campaigned for a popular vote instead of the Electoral College votes.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2016 02:56 am
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
No, you don't understand, Max. If the electors strictly abide by the Constitution, they will reject Trump and will elect Hillary as the next president of the United States:


Huh? I tried to read the article. It seems like a bunch of ideological nonsense.



To be an ideological nonsense, or to be an ideological enlightenment: that is the question.

maxdancona wrote:


You are appealing to the Constitution... maybe you can point out where in the Constitution it says that the electors should reject Trump?

Here is a link. The relevant section is Article 2 Section 1... and the 12th Amendment.

http://constitutionus.com/

I think your claim is complete nonsense. But maybe you can show me the part of the US Constitution on which you base this claim.

Trump will be the next president.



So far, one of the most brilliant interpreters and promoters of the Constitution in history is Alexander Hamilton, who, along with James Madison, both our founding fathers, had already answered your question:

Quote:
Alexander Hamilton described the framers' view of how electors would be chosen, "A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated [tasks]."[28] The founders assumed this would take place district by district. That plan was carried out by many states until the 1880s...
Some states reasoned that the favorite presidential candidate among the people in their state would have a much better chance if all of the electors selected by their state were sure to vote the same way – a "general ticket" of electors pledged to a party candidate.[30] So the slate of electors chosen by the state were no longer free agents, independent thinkers, or deliberative representatives. They became "voluntary party lackeys and intellectual non-entities."[31] Once one state took that strategy, the others felt compelled to follow suit in order to compete for the strongest influence on the election.[30]

When James Madison and Hamilton, two of the most important architects of the Electoral College, saw this strategy being taken by some states, they protested strongly. Madison and Hamilton both made it clear this approach violated the spirit of the Constitution. According to Hamilton, the selection of the president should be "made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station [of president]."[28] According to Hamilton, the electors were to analyze the list of potential presidents and select the best one. He also used the term "deliberate." Hamilton considered a pre-pledged elector to violate the spirit of Article II of the Constitution insofar as such electors could make no "analysis" or "deliberate" concerning the candidates. Madison agreed entirely, saying that when the Constitution was written, all of its authors assumed individual electors would be elected in their districts and it was inconceivable a "general ticket" of electors dictated by a state would supplant the concept. Madison wrote to George Hay,

The district mode was mostly, if not exclusively in view when the Constitution was framed and adopted; & was exchanged for the general ticket [many years later].[32]


The founders assumed that electors would be elected by the citizens of their district and that elector was to be free to analyze and deliberate regarding who is best suited to be president.

Madison and Hamilton were so upset by what they saw as a distortion of the framers’ original intent that they advocated for a constitutional amendment to prevent anything other than the district plan: "the election of Presidential Electors by districts, is an amendment very proper to be brought forward," Madison told George Hay in 1823.[32] Hamilton went further.
He actually drafted an amendment to the Constitution mandating the district plan for selecting electors.[33]

Link:
Evolution to the general ticket



So sorry Max, you've played the role of a lackey here, who is NOT "capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station [of president]." You don't have an independent mind.

So readers here can see that the article is an ideological enlightenment.

But, as the author has humbly admitted how naive he ever was, the ideological enlightenment is in fact given us by our founding fathers and the author has simply made a wake-up call.

So if the spirit of the Constitution is strictly followed by the Electoral College, then they will vote for Hillary Clinton, who will be the next president of the United States. Because Trump extremely lacks the qualities of being a President.

 

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