No Justice, No Peace

@snood,

Quote:

Self-awareness is the first step toward change.

I have been praying for so long, hallelujah snood is actually thinking about that first step. Shocked

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Snood's feeble response of choice: TROLLING!

I would like to respond to you rationally Finn, I truly would. You're a smart man and in another life, we could probably learn from each other. But I really don't know how to respond to you. The man in South Carolina had a gun, so the protesters are proceeding on a false premise. I've not commented on that particular case for the precise reason that what he had in his hands wan't yet known.

But after that small bit of agreement I'm pretty sure we would each go straightaway in opposite directions.

I say its self evident that there is a vastly disproportionate amount of death and violence meted out to black and brown men from law enforcement. That argument doesn't go away just because there are cases where the police were doing their job.

1 Reply

@snood,

You have on more than one occasion responded to me with the accusation of racist.

That alone is reason for me not to want to consider you seriously.

I have, on more than occasion, acknowledged that the police around the country are liable to discriminate, unfairly, against African-Americans.

There is, however, no evidence that the police are killing African-Americans indiscriminately.

This doesn't mean that there haven't been incidents where police have unjustly killed African-Americans, but when White Americans are also killed unjustly by police, and Minority Cops are killing minority suspects, it's a tough case to make that it is all about racism.

The reality in our society today is that whenever an African-American is killed by police, there are protests, often violent, irrespective of whether the shooting was justified.

This is not OK, and the threat of "No Justice, No Peace" is noxious.

I abhor police brutality and criminality irrespective of race, but I am not prepared to assume every cop shooting is unjust.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Could someone reach out and wipe away snoods tears... he's feeling victimized.

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https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.M796e72017feb974a13984fee57e69cc1o0%26pid%3D15.1&f=1

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Oh oh looks like Bob needs a hug he's feeling victimized again

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I's very clear that Snood & co, don't have a taste for a real discussion of some obvious issues. He started this thread and now he and his camp followers are trying to end it. A remarkable retreat.

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@georgeob1,

I don't want the thread to end. It just seems to me that some folk are determined to somehow deny, rationalize or deflect from something undeniable, and I find no common ground with them on which to build a discussion. I think I'm a fairly creative and resourceful person and I truly love the exchange of ideas even when contentious. But I don't talk to climate change deniers about climate change, I don't talk to holocaust deniers about the holocaust, and I won't humor anyone who can't acknowledge that black and brown men have been and still are inordinately beaten, injured and murdered by agents of law enforcement in this country.

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@snood,

Yes.

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@snood,

In short you can't abide any disagreement with your chosen prejudices. That is exactly what I was suggesting.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

No, George that is not what I am saying. The FACT that black and brown men are inordinately beaten and killed by police is not a "chosen prejudice". It just IS.

It's funny - people like you and Finn can go so far as to admit there is "probably" racial bias in the dispensation of justice in this country. But when that bias finds physical expression in actual beatings and killings of actual black and brown bodies, somehow equivocation begins... Like, "Well, sure it exists, but that's not why these things are happening." ?

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@snood,

Quote:

I don't want the thread to end. It just seems to me that some folk are determined to somehow deny, rationalize or deflect from something undeniable, and I find no common ground with them on which to build a discussion.

You are so smart but in my humble opinion you have a problem that most of us have and that is a lack of interest in an ethical understanding.
This seems to be the same problem that your opponents have as well. This is where we all become confused with the empathic ideas that we share with each other.

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I fail to see why people don't appear to grasp the concept here, as pushed by snood. I agree with him one hundred percent, to the extent I have read this thread. You have to weed out racist cops and the institutions that perpetuate protecting them. Then you can have a dialog, after the killing and ridiculously long prison terms stop.

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

I don't want the thread to end. It just seems to me that some folk are determined to somehow deny, rationalize or deflect from something undeniable, and I find no common ground with them on which to build a discussion. I think I'm a fairly creative and resourceful person and I truly love the exchange of ideas even when contentious. But I don't talk to climate change deniers about climate change, I don't talk to holocaust deniers about the holocaust, and I won't humor anyone who can't acknowledge that black and brown men have been and still are inordinately beaten, injured and murdered by agents of law enforcement in this country.

Define inordinately as it applies to your argument.

It certainly can't be akin to the definition of inordinate as it applies to the amount of crime perpetrated by blacks in the United States in as much as they only comprise 13% of the population.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

@bobsal u1553115,
Oh oh looks like Bob needs a hug he's feeling victimized again

In which case I would simply say . . .

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/f7/f76739d414ce650e6b022a1f094bda77820fd920ab4cb20f72e831721117e09c.jpg

I just love baby seals. Mr. Green

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@edgarblythe,

To the extent that there are racist cops (and I agree that they exist) they certainly do need to be weeded out, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law if they act criminally. Who is arguing otherwise?

However, every time an African-American is killed by a cop, it's not a case of racist murder, and even when it is, it doesn't justify rioting.

Justice is not obtained in a civilized society through mob violence and destruction. It's not obtained by assassinating cops. It's not obtained through demands backed by threats.

Why is this position so difficult for you and snood to grasp?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

For what it's worth (which is next to nothing), I agree with you.

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

It's worth something to me.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Count me in as well.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

However, every time an African-American is killed by a cop, it's not a case of racist murder,

But Finn, at no time in no place have I said that. I know you understand the concept of a strawman argument. You are creating a point to oppose that no one else is raising - namely "Every time an African American is killed by a cop, it is a case of racist murder." You take a statement no one has made and then go right to Reductio ad absurdum by trying to show that the statement is false because an absurd result follows from its acceptance. It's dishonest, Finn. This is why it's hard for me to take you seriously.

Quote:

and even when it is, it doesn't justify rioting.

More of the same exaggeration or creation from whole cloth of your opponent's argument, then arguing against your own creation. No one has said that rioting is justifiable. At the most, I've thought that it was understandable in some cases. But never advisable. I believe strongly that the vast majority of people out there protesting are doing it peacefully.

Quote:

Justice is not obtained in a civilized society through mob violence and destruction.

No one said it is.

Quote:

It's not obtained by assassinating cops. It's not obtained through demands backed by threats.

I know you haven't seen me advocating anything like that.

Quote:

Why is this position so difficult for you and snood to grasp?

Why can't you argue or discuss what's actually being said, and not what you concoct?

1 Reply

No Justice, No Peace

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