No Justice, No Peace

How do you dialog when you get shot down for absolutely nothing and there is no consequence for most of the murderers?

Exactly. These guys are saying I don't brook any honest disagreement.
I disagree with that.
Tell me something, Ed - what is it I'm saying here that they "disagree" about?

The operating idea behind this whole discussion is that law enforcement in this country kills black men in large numbers without any consequences.

Is that really disputable?

I'm going to point something out but you might already understand it.

Prosecuting a cop for killing a suspect will ultimately make future people less likely to become police officers. Their jobs are extremely stressful, imagine every day you show up to work might be your last day alive. On top of this you know it's going to be some are home thug low life who ends your life. This tension builds you up mentally to take zero chances even with unarmed citizens.

You can write this off and say well these kinds of people shouldn't be officers if they can't handle the pressure. To be honest I think less than 0.01 percent of the U.S. Population have what is required to be a decent officer. These people often do other jobs instead so there are even fewer who actually become officers.

They can't prosecute officers it would make recruitment harder. This is why they rarely prosecute. Just like suing doctors, it's nearly impossible because if you could easily it would break the incentive to "practice" medicine. Who would want to be a doctor if anyone could easily sue you?

This is why our justice system seems blind to officer prosecution in clearly wrong doing. It's crazy and seems racial but it's not just a racial issue it's a system trying to keep itself together.

No it isn't. But that is not the whole context in which the question resides, and it appears you are unwilling to deal with that.

Man, I don't even know where to begin....
That thing about only a tiny percentage of people being able to handle being a cop? That's one way of looking at it. Another way of seeing the cop population is that a big percentage of those serving shouldn't be cops and wouldn't be cops if they had to pass a thorough psych screen before they were allowed to ride around with a stick and a gun in a fast car looking for trouble.

As far as your opinion about how hard a job cops have?

Cops don't even rate in the top ten of must dangerous jobs. In fatal injuries and overall deaths they ranked 13th.

http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

And they rank 5th in most stressful jobs.

http://www.salary.com/the-top-10-most-stressful-jobs/slide/11/

But, good news! Your argument about it not being a good thing to prosecute cops guilty of crimes because it "hurts recruitment" ranks NUMBER ONE on my list of stupidest things said in earnest.

By the way, does your logic extend to all professions, or is this immunity from prosecution just for cops? In other words is there any other profession or vocation who should be excused when committing violent crimes or murder? Should we make it according to how important their service is to society? And how do we delineate which professions should be punished, and which should not?

Cops who commit crimes should be prosecuted just like anyone else. To suggest otherwise is just wacky.

Well state the "context" again that I'm missing, and I'll try to deal with it.

Snood,

You act like its my opinion that cops shouldnt be prosecuted for wrong doing. I am explaining why they rarely if ever get prisecuted. I personally think cops shoyld be held to a higher standardand liable for heavier punishments because they should be setting the example.

When I said cops are under stress you mentioned the fatality rate if other professions. Sure but are these other professions deaths dealing with a thug or a person wanting to kill you? Just because logging might be more dangerous than being a police officer, its not some asshole low life who caused your death, it was something benign impersonal.

This is an officer's perspective. But as you point out there arevery few who should be allowed to be officers. I agree.

The system wants to protect their own not because its inheritently racist but how they view the officer / citizen relationship. To an officer anyone not their family, friends or fellow officers are "perps" potential criminals worthy of no respect.

The context is that crimes of violence and and shootings are much more frequent on a per capita basis by young black males than most other groups. Cops ( of all racial groups) are very likely more intensely aware of these statistics than most people. Some may call that racial profiling, but the fact is that profiling (i.e. observing and finding associations) is an essential part of police work and what most people call common sense. That isn't fair to the innocent, but it's a fact nonetheless.

I don't suggest that this is an excuse for the wrongful shooting of anyone. It is not. Rather it is indeed a likely related factor, and as I have indicated, for real change to occur, each side must see a committment to change from the other. That's just the way our common human nature works.

It's not only white people calling for dialogue.

Every black man shot and killed by police is not a victim of murder.

There can be no meaningful conversation if the assumption is that every African-American killed by the police has been murdered.

There can be a conversation if we agree that African-Americans are discriminated against by the police because of their race, and something needs to be done about it.

There can be a conversation if we agree that the police and the criminal justice system tends to circle the wagons whenever there is a police shooting, regardless of the race of the victim, and something needs to be done about it.

There can be a conversation if the people involved don't immediately resort to claims of racism when someone disagrees with them.

In the absence of conversation, what are we left with?

Violent rebellion?

On 60 Minutes tonight, Nate Parker the star and producer of "Birth of a Nation," the story of the Nate Turner rebellion was interviewed.

He likened Turner to the founders of the American Revolution and I agree with him completely.

He also likened Nate Turner's America with today's, and I completely disagree with him.

For Nate Turner and his followers, violent rebellion was the only option available to confront horrific evil.

It's absurd and reprehensible to claim the same is the case today.

What can we do to show the reality of this?


If someone does not have an interest in understanding is there any hope?

I don't watch posted videos. What's the gist of it?

In The Souls of Black Folk, W.E.B. DuBois suggested that the question white people so often want to ask black people is, How does it feel to be a problem? This program turns the tables and recognizes some simple facts: Race problems have their roots in a system of white supremacy. White people invented white supremacy. Therefore, the color of the race problem is white. White people are the problem. White people have to ask ourselves: How does it feel to be a problem?




Following the ideas in his book The Heart of Whiteness, Jensen argues that -- even decades after the significant achievements of the civil-rights movement and with an African-American president -- it is still appropriate to describe the United States as a white-supremacist society, in terms of how we think and how we live. Through an analysis of contemporary racial ideology, Jensen presents a framework for critiquing the naturalizing of power and privilege in other arenas of our lives (gender, class, nationality, and ecology). How have we come to accept so easily systems of domination and subordination? How did we become resigned to hierarchy? How can we challenge the unjust and unsustainable nature of the systems in which we live?

Sounds like academic claptrap to me.

It may not be good for you but to others who like to listen and come to their own understanding, it may seem as a treasure chest of knowledge.

Maybe

I don't understand the minds of people who want to argue against this point.

I almost do. I see the disconnection.

I think of it as rickets.

The last time Krumple was here she spent a inordinate amount of time arguing that the Nazis couldn't have killed anywhere near as many Jews as is claimed. Not quite Holocaust denial, but very close, Holocaust amelioration or belittlement.

So it's hardly surprising that she would adopt a similar tone on this thread.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37533947

194 blacks were killed by police so far this year. Most were justifiable. Blacks have been ginned up over this issue ( or should I say, unwittingly duped and manipulated by the press and democratic political operstives) because it is a presidential election year.

Is this cause of death in the black community worthy of the attention and consternation it seems to be receiving? Most uneducated people would say yes, because these deaths were at the hands of another person unlike for instance the number one and number two cause of deaths in the U.S. each year, heart disease and cancer.

Most of the uninformed don't know that the third cause of death in the United States is at the hands of another professional occupation and the numbers are staggering. No, I'm not talking about black on black crime perpetrated by the professional career criminal. I'm referring to medical malpractice.

It is estimated that doctors kill (or to use the term that is all the gog in this thread...murdered) close to a half million people in the United States by medical malpractice. Now if black people are 13% of the population it follows that 65000 black people are probably killed by doctors each year. How many were killed by white doctors?

Well we know that the number of active doctors in the United States is 800000 but black doctors account for only 4%, some 30,000. So the majority of black deaths by medical malpractice at the hands of these white devils must be equally staggering... Yet I don't see anyone from the black community up in arms. I don't see them marching on hospitals, rioting and burning medical facilities, or see it being reported on CNN or commented on by Hillary Clinton. Where is the cry for the retraining of these doctors??

And given those numbers you would have to suspect that these white doctors couldn't possibly be anything other than stone cold racist killers... yet I don't see the Department of Justice launching any civil rights investigations of these white devil doctors.

And now having been alerted to this scourge on the black community, I wonder how many of the outspoken here at a2K will take up a hue and cry for this injustice? ( I'm sure there will be none because like with the liberal media, the cause is not "sexy" enough.)

Given the numbers, it seems rather silly to be that worked up over 194 deaths at the hands of police when thousands of black people are being killed each year by doctors. But then that's what manipulation is all about. It is easy to lead the sheeple.

And So It Goes.