28
   

No Justice, No Peace

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 06:31 pm
@wmwcjr,
I can't see it attracting the same size crowd, but the potential for violence seems great.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 07:00 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

I've just read that three people have died.

Two of those died in a helicopter crash. It was a police helicopter that wasn't close to the protest site, but they were counted together because evidently the copter had been observing the crowd earlier.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 07:14 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's the mindless hatred and willingness to commit violence that disgusts me. It's not a cake or a pie for Christ's sake, as if you cut a slice there is less cake for all the others, we are talking about equality, freedom and liberty. My right to have equality, freedom and liberty does not mean others get less.

I really miss President Obama, he could encourage me to hope. These fuckwads in Charlottesville, move me to despair. The choice one squatting in the White House is a milquetoast eager to placate his followers. He's a miserable coward.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 07:33 pm
@glitterbag,
We have to find some equilibrium that allows racists to live in their own enclaves while allowing the rest of us to get on with developing a just society.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 10:42 pm
Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville
State police and National Guardsmen watched passively for hours as self-proclaimed Nazis engaged in street battles with counter-protesters. ProPublica reporter A.C. Thompson was on the scene and reports that the authorities turned the streets of the city over to groups of militiamen armed with assault rifles.
https://www.propublica.org/article/police-stood-by-as-mayhem-mounted-in-charlottesville
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 11:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
I noticed their passivity. Contrast the way police dealt with the Ferguson protests a couple years ago with the laissez faire way they dealt with this.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Aug, 2017 11:10 pm
https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/20770156_1481215931954733_5909092707339206018_n.png?oh=e2204b3200b825bb0ecc12d1909c8136&oe=59ED979C
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 13 Aug, 2017 12:21 am
@Setanta,
Entirely predictable and entirely vacuous
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Aug, 2017 12:34 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Not nearly as vacuous as blaming the victims for their injuries based on a shallow, puerile estimate of their character, in turn based on your witless polemic. They don't think as you do, so they must be wrong in all things, even outright criminal, eh?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2017 05:07 am
I think that getting rid of monuments to American white supremacy is clearly analogous to getting rid of Nazi symbolism in Germany ...

Quote:
For all the hand-wringing about preserving the memory of our forebears and the historic character of our cities when it comes to the Confederacy, Americans see things a little more clearly further from home.

Is anyone aware of Directive 30, jointly issued by the Allies in May of 1946, regarding exactly what to do with Nazi monuments and memorials?

Of course free speech means that people who want to advertise that they are white supremacists will always be able to stick a Confederate flag on their bumper or forehead or front lawn.
But there’s no reason the rest of us should have to use our tax dollars to maintain thousands of Confederate hero statues in public spaces all over the country.

I'm interested to hear people's reactions to this analogy. the test of Directive 30 is longish, but I've C&Ped a relevant portion...

Quote:
4 May 1946

ALLIED CONTROL AUTHORITY
COORDINATING COMMITTEE


Legislation Dealing With the Liquidation of German Military and Nazi Memorials and Museums
Directive 30
The Control Council directs as follows:
I

On and after the date of this directive, the planning, designing, erection, installation, posting or other display of any monument, memorial, poster, statue, edifice, street or highway name marker, emblem, tablet, or insignia which tends to preserve and keep alive the German military tradition, to revive militarism or to commemorate the Nazi Party, or which is of such a nature as to glorify incidents of war, and the functioning of military museums and exhibitions, and the erection, installation, or posting or other display on a building or other structure of any of the same, will be prohibited and declared illegal; also the reopening of military museums and exhibitions.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/08/13/read_the_allied_order_to_destroy_nazi_monuments_in_germany.html
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2017 07:23 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I can't see it attracting the same size crowd, but the potential for violence seems great.

Yes, I agree.

I think the A&M rally could go a few different ways.

A&M is currently 59% white, and does not use race as a factor in admissions, but they are actively recruiting minority students.

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/06/19/m-student-diversity-increasing-without-affirmative/
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2017 12:14 pm
@DrewDad,
Yeah, I don't think it's going to go well for the Nazis....

White nationalist rally at Texas A&M to feature Richard Spencer; counter protest planned

Quote:
...

Key said participants will try to get as close to Wiginton’s event as possible. On Facebook, organizers proposed forming a “maroon wall” of students to block Wiginton’s message from the general public. A&M students used a similar strategy when the infamous Westboro Baptist Church protested a military funeral in College Station in 2012.

A&M officials, meanwhile, have been left frustrated and struggling to find a solution. As a public university, it's limited by the First Amendment in how it handles events on campus that it finds objectionable. The university hasn't publicly responded to the September plans. But in a Facebook post, A&M System Regent Tony Buzbee, a prominent Houston lawyer, said he has looked into whether the university could keep Wiginton from holding events on campus.

"Because we offer these facilities to the public for use, we cannot deny such use due to political ideology or speech content," Buzbee said. "The First Amendment allows speech like this, even though it is repugnant and wrong."

Ultimately, Buzbee said, Wiginton is seeking attention.

"He has never accomplished anything positive in his life and never will," Buzbee said. "It is a damn shame that our university, which sent more officers to fight the Nazis than all the service academies combined, would be tarnished by trash like him. But, in the end, the best way to deal with a lowlife like him is to ignore him."
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2017 07:02 pm
Texas A&M cancelled.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 11:09 am
The persons tearing down the statues, without waiting for the authorities to act, are doing their cause a disservice, it seems to me. It gives new ammunition to be used against them.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 11:30 am
@edgarblythe,
It is civil disobedience, which is illegal by definition. The laws that allow these statues to stand are unjust laws to me, and sometimes unjust laws are alright to defy, in my opinion (see entire history of civil rights and voting rights lawbreaking).
Surely a former flower child (I'm guessing) of the 60's and 70's understands breaking unjust laws.
No one was hurt or threatened. Unless you count the statue.

Anyway - who owns the public spaces these monuments are on? The authorities or the taxpayers?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 12:56 pm
@snood,
I want the statues down. No argument there. I was writing from a tactical sense.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 01:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
I hear ya. You may be right. But just curious - why would it be better for them to wait for the police?
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 01:13 pm
@snood,
There is already sympathy for taking down the statues, legally. Why jeopardize public good will by tearing them down and stomping them like that?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 01:16 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I want the statues down.


What is it about these statues that has you so riled up?

Is it that they represent leaders of the Confederacy?
Is it that they represent a period of civil war?
Is it the slavery aspect of the South?
Is it just Lee in particular you don't like?

The Civil War is a part of American History. Tearing statues down isn't going to change that. Tearing down statues does nothing other than offer a soothing balm to juveniles.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2017 03:00 pm
@McGentrix,
Austin City Council will begin process of renaming Robert E. Lee Road

Quote:


Austin will begin the process of trying to change the name of Robert E. Lee Road in South Austin, City Council members said Tuesday, after recent white supremacist demonstrations in Charlottesville, Va, that turned violent.

City Council member Ann Kitchen, whose district includes the road, said she would bring forward an application to change the name of the road and ask the community to suggest alternatives. A renaming process would take months of reviewing the costs of the name change, the public safety implications and the opinions of the community.

“Seeing the hatred and the violence there, it should shake us all to our core,” she said. “It is incumbent on all of us in the country to stand up and say: This is not who we are.”

The Charlottesville white supremacist demonstrations came in response to plans there to remove a statue of Lee, the commanding Confederate general. Dozens were injured and a woman killed Saturday when a driver plowed his car into counter protesters opposing the white supremacist marchers.

The event spurred renewed conversations nationwide of removing monuments to Confederate leaders. In Austin, Robert E. Lee Road street signs were vandalized over the weekend. A petition to rename Robert E. Lee Road had more than 12,900 signatures as of Tuesday afternoon.

Other council members indicated they supported renaming Robert E. Lee Road. Mayor Steve Adler, who posted earlier on the day that it was time to rename the road, said he wanted “to state strongly and clearly that ours is a community where there is no place for hate.”

Council Member Greg Casar, who went to college in Charlottesville, pushed back against the common argument that removing Confederate names and monuments erases history. He argued that it instead corrects history.

Ultimately, Kitchen said, renaming the road would be a symbol.

“It’s an important, critical symbol,” she said. “But we can’t just change the name of a road and say, OK, we’ve fixed the problems in our community with regard to hatred and violence and racism.”
0 Replies
 
 

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