28
   

No Justice, No Peace

 
 
giujohn
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 05:39 am
@momoends,
.....No.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 08:10 am
@snood,
Here's Why Cops Often Shoot Suspects Multiple Times

Erin Fuchs

Aug. 18, 2014, 1:48 PM 35,741

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-cops-shoot-people-multiple-times-2014-8

The news Sunday night that a Ferguson, Missouri, cop shot an unarmed black teenager at least six times may intensify the public's outrage, but it's not unusual for the police to shoot multiple times.

To be sure, there are several troubling results from a family-ordered autopsy of 18-year-old Michael Brown — including the findings that officer Darren Wilson shot him from behind and above, according to CNN. That autopsy also didn't find signs of a struggle, CNN noted, which conflicts with the police account that Brown was reaching for Wilson's gun.

But the public should not focus too heavily on the number of times Brown was shot, two experts on police force told us. It sounds excessive when you hear that a police officer shot someone multiple times, but these experts say cops often have very good reasons for doing so.

"Hollywood has us believing that if you shoot someone once or twice, they fall," former police chief Chuck Drago told Business Insider by phone. But, he added, "I've seen people shot many times, and they don't even slow down."

Police often keep firing because they don't even realize they hit the person, Drago says. Cops are also taught to fire three times before reassessing the threat — a procedure known as "triple tap," according to Dr. Daniel Kennedy, a forensic criminologist.

"It is not at all unusual for officers to fire multiple rounds, once they begin to fire," Kennedy said in an email, noting, as Drago did, that bullets often don't "take immediate effect."

In the case of Brown, investigators should look at how far away Wilson was from Brown when he shot him, Drago said. To do that, investigators can look at how much soot is on Brown's body.

"If [the officer] says, 'He was trying to take my gun away from me,'" Drago said, "there is going to be some very close-range forensics to show that."

In addition to the family-ordered autopsy, the Justice Department will perform its own autopsy on Brown. Ferguson, a city of 21,000 and a suburb of St. Louis, has been the site of protests and riots since Brown was shot on Aug. 9 after a cop stopped him for jaywalking. Missouri's governor said Monday he would deploy the National Guard there to try to get the situation under control.
SEE ALSO: How The Cops In Ferguson Made A Bad Situation Worse
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 08:13 am
@snood,
How often do police officers in the USA who carry a gun practice shooting them?
I do understand with all the recent headlines this question may sound a bit naive as if to insinuate something negative about the police. To be clear, this is not my intention.
I am genuinely interested in hearing about what police officers do to practice their shot.
11 Answers
Tim Dees
Tim Dees, Carrying a gun daily since 1979
Written 25 Feb 2015 · Upvoted by Bill Stein, Former Air Force Security Forces Augmentee, third-generation Law Enforcement
Most law enforcement officers qualify with their sidearms once to six times per year. With some exceptions, they practice far less often.

Few law enforcement agencies have ample budgets. When the budget gets lean, training is often the first item to be cut.

Live firearms training is expensive. If the officer practices with the same ammunition he carries on the street (which he should), 50 rounds is going to cost $35-$50. More commonly, agencies and individual cops buy lower-grade practice ammo for the range, which costs $250-$300 per 1000 rounds, purchased in bulk.

There is always a hazard in not using duty-grade ammo, as the practice ammo may behave differently than the duty-grade stuff. I carry either a 9mm or .40 S&W pistol, and buy bulk ammo for practice. I blow off the ammo I regularly carry once every year or so, and I don't notice much of a difference in recoil or muzzle flash. When I carried a revolver, there was a huge difference. On duty, we carried Remington .357 Magnum 125 grain semi-jacketed hollow point (SJHP) rounds. In the academy and at the range, we shot .38 Special "wadcutter" rounds, which made nice, neat holes in paper targets, and did not have as large a powder charge. The first time I fired a duty round in my revolver, I might have thought I had blown up the gun if I didn't know better. The recoil, sound, and muzzle flash was huge, as compared to the wadcutter ammo. Still, we always used the wadcutters at the range, and blew off our duty ammo only every few years, because it was costly. I bought the same brand and type of ammo out of my own pocket, and never had rounds that were more than a year old in my gun.

Even using practice-grade ammo, firearms training gets to be expensive quickly. Consider a large agency such as LAPD, with about 9,000 sworn officers. If they train with 50 practice rounds (~$275 per 1000 rounds) once per month, that's just short of $1.5 million annually. If they use duty ammo, that cost goes up to about $5.4 million. This does not count the cost of lost personnel time, targets, and staffing the range.

Although there are agencies such as the one where Rick Bruno worked that do practice monthly, most agencies do only qualifications, and do them as seldom as once per year.

At a qualification, there is a prescribed course of fire each officer must complete. For example, here's the course of 25 rounds (shorter than most, but this is what the state requires) I have to complete every year to keep my concealed weapons privileges as a retired officer:

At the three yard line (distance between target and shooter), draw from the holster and fire four rounds: two to the head, two to the body. Time limit: seven seconds. Switch magazines (the state is really big on reloading drills), re-holster.
At the five yard line, draw and fire three rounds (this and all subsequent courses are aimed at center body mass). Time limit: five seconds. Switch magazines.
At the five yard line, from a ready position (gun drawn and pointed downrange), fire three rounds with the support hand only (in my case, my left hand). Time limit: seven seconds. Switch magazines.
At the seven yard line, from a ready position, fire five rounds. Time limit: nine seconds. Switch magazines.
From the ten yard line, from a ready position, fire five rounds. Time limit: twelve seconds. Switch magazines.
From the fifteen yard line, from a ready position, fire five rounds. Time limit: twelve seconds.


I have to score at least 70% of the maximum points to qualify. Points are determined by where each round strikes the silhouette target, assuming they hit the target at all. I usually shoot 93-95%. I always seem to have one round that falls outside the "coke bottle" portion of the target that has the highest point values. This annoys me. You can find the course qualification form here (Page on wa.gov).

I don't regard this course as especially difficult or taxing. I've always shot scores in the 90%-100% range, but I think that is more testimonial to the low difficulty of the courses than to my prowess with a handgun. I view myself as a slightly better than average shooter. There are certainly lots of people better than I am.

A more typical active duty qualification is 50 rounds. Some courses have real-world elements built in, such as firing at a target, running to cover maybe 30-50 yards away, and engaging another target from behind cover. More commonly, they're like the course described above, where you stand a prescribed distance from the target and shoot X rounds in Y seconds.

You might think that an officer who fails to score the minimum points is removed from duty until he can be given remedial training to address his marksmanship deficit. Some places do this, but more commonly, the officer is just sent through the course again until he gets it right. I find this as incredible as you do.

There are few mandated practice sessions in most agencies. Qualification is not the same as practice. Of course, the officer is free to purchase his own ammo and targets and practice as much as he wants on his own time, but most of them don't do that very often.

Adey Hill mentioned that I might have more information on U.S. policies than he does. Adey is used to a somewhat more challenging system for police who carry firearms. Aspiring Authorised Firearms Officers (AFOs) in the UK have to have several years of honorable service and demonstrate a high level of physical fitness before they can apply to be an AFO. They go through a week or so of familiarization with firearms (it's not unusual for a British citizen to have never touched a firearm) before they are approved to attend the full course, which is a month long. When and if they pass, they still don't carry the firearms, typically a military style semi-auto rifle and a semi-auto handgun, routinely. Instead, the firearms reside in a locked compartment of their two-AFO patrol vehicle, and they can remove them only on order from a relatively high-ranking member of the police service, or on their own under very limited, stringent conditions that almost never happen.

AFOs train with firearms about one day a month, and have an extended training session one to two weeks each year. By the time an AFO has completed his initial certification, he has had more firearms training than most U.S. cops receive over their entire careers. Yet, U.S. officers carry their firearms every day, on duty and off, and deploy them according to their agency's policy and their own discretion.

This is only one of several areas where U.S. law enforcement training needs improvement, but I don't see it happening soon. Instead, money and resources are invested in trendy things such as telling cops to close their eyes, take deep breaths, and go to their happy place when they're confronted by angry people (NY cops told to 'close eyes' during volatile situations).

You can have better police, but that will be more expensive.
7.2k Views · View Upvotes
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 08:51 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
How can one agree to a dialog when always considered wrong before it begins?
giujohn
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 09:55 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Triple tap? TRIPLE TAP????

You obviously know nothing about real world combat shooting and neither does your source. The "double-tap" went out of vogue with the advent of terminal ballistics research and serious analysis of real world shootings. The automatic response of firing two (and only two) rounds eventually gave way to the concept of shooting at something until it didn’t need to be shot anymore.

Outside of IPSC and IDPA, the double-tap appeared to be a thing of the past.
You may find shooters on a range...usually mediocre shooters... chasing the satisfaction of shooting fast in an unproductive way by hammering two shots at a time on a very close range target. The problem is that they’re not shooting fast, they’re simply moving the trigger fast. Not the same thing. The goal is to get controlled speed so you can fire one, two, three, six, or however many shots you want and still keep them where you are aiming.

Problems with the double-tap as a training goal is you’re preprogramming your body and mind to stop after two shots are fired. Everything learned about gunfight statistics and trained response says this is a bad, bad combination.

Most people don’t measure or worry about the speed of the first shot in a double-tap. Taking three seconds to align the gun, stabilize your grip, and carefully aim before hammering the trigger twice is counterproductive.
Shooters tend to fire the gun as fast as they can pull the trigger with no regard to seeing their sights or controlling recoil. The gun is quite literally out of control after the second shot. Following up with more hits then requires starting all over again with stabilizing the grip and finding the sights to align them.

Related to the last point, because the second shot isn’t aimed the shooter can’t really know where it’s going. While this may suffice for a large, wide-open close range target at an IPSC match, it has no relevance to breathing, moving targets at various unknown distances.

The double-tap doesn’t serve a defensive purpose because you have no way of being sure two shots will be enough. It doesn’t serve a training purpose because you’re not controlling the gun… learning to move your finger faster is just one very small part of shooting fast. About the only thing the double-tap gives you is a false sense of proficiency.

Oh and by the way there is really no such thing as a "triple tap". In your limited knowledge of real-world combat shooting what you are unknowingly referring to is "two to the heart and one to the head" or the Mozambique drill first used by a Rhodesian mercenary named Mike Rousseau, against an armed terrorist with an AK-47 as he was rounding the corner of a building. It was incorporated by Jeff Cooper into into competition shooting and also later adopted by various anti terrorist SOCOM groups. In order to become proficient and incorporate this type of shooting into a training regime the person would have to shoot between 3500 and 5000 rounds a week... Just like those members of these elite anti terrorist groups. It should be noted that there has never been a recorded instance of the successful use of this technique in any civilian or police shooting in the United States.

Stick to what you know Bob... Copying and pasting negative stories about police and leave the technical aspect to the experts.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2016 06:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
Good question.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2016 08:23 am
Quote:
Facebook, Twitter and Instagram have revoked access to their data to an analytics firm accused of selling information that allowed US police to track activists and protesters.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said Chicago-based Geofeedia had allowed police to "sneak in through a side door" to monitor protests.

Geofeedia said it was committed to the principles of personal privacy.

It comes amid growing concern about government access to social media.

ACLU said Geofeedia had been marketing its services to police agencies to help track activists using location data and social media posts.

The group said it had seen internal documents in which Geofeedia said that it "covered Ferguson/Mike Brown nationally with great success," referring to protests which erupted in 2014 after an unarmed African-American man was shot dead by police.

"The ACLU of California has obtained records showing that Twitter, Facebook and Instagram provided user data access to Geofeedia, a developer of a social media monitoring product that we have seen marketed to law enforcement as a tool to monitor activists and protesters," the group said in a statement.

"We know for a fact that in Oakland [California] and Baltimore [Maryland], law enforcement has used Geofeedia to monitor protests."

Nicole Ozer, technology and civil liberties policy director for the ACLU said: "These special data deals were allowing the police to sneak in through a side door and use these powerful platforms to track protesters."

Geofeedia Chief Executive Officer Phil Harris said the company was committed to the principles of personal privacy, transparency and individual rights and had clear policies to prevent the inappropriate use of its software.

"That said, we understand, given the ever-changing nature of digital technology, that we must continue to work to build on these critical protections of civil rights," he said in an emailed statement to Reuters news agency.

Facebook and Instagram ended Geofeedia's access on 19 September, the ACLU says.

A Facebook spokesperson said in a statement that Geofeedia only had access to data that people chose to make public.

Twitter said it was suspending access shortly after the ACLU announcement.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37627086
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2016 08:37 am
And yet these liberal Mega social media Networks do nothing when gangs of outsider rioters and looters use the social media to coordinate their criminal activity when they descend on a city like Baltimore or Ferguson to wreak havoc an anarchy.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2016 07:44 pm
Woman Says She Endured 8 Days In Psych Ward Because Cops Didn’t Believe BMW Was Hers
“I do think race played a part in this.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kamilah-brock-nypd-bmw_us_55f2c9aae4b063ecbfa3e60d

It's hard to dialog with this kind of crap.
giujohn
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2016 08:46 am
@edgarblythe,
Thanks for posting that partial one sided story... Can't wait for the ending!
0 Replies
 
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2016 09:13 pm
@giujohn,
care to explain?
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2016 01:03 pm
@momoends,
What part of my reply needs an explanation?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 12:43 am
Quote:
A town mayor in the US state of Pennsylvania has quit following uproar over his racist posts on Facebook.

The council in West York unanimously accepted Charles Wasko's resignation offer on Monday night, prompting applause from a crowd in the chambers.

The Republican was censured by the council this month for his posts, some depicting apes and lynching.

Mr Wasko, who is white, said he was the target of a "witch hunt", but acknowledged making the posts.

In June he uploaded a photo of orangutans in a wheelbarrow, captioned: "Aww... moving day at the Whitehouse has finally arrived."

"Not soon enough!" Mr Wasko commented on the image, which had the phrase "Kenya or bust" superimposed on the hand cart.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37694347
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 08:34 am
So which party in the UK is more racist the Labour party or the Tories? According to recent news reports it seems to be a tie. Before you start sharp shooting at politics put your own house in order.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 08:56 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

So which party in the UK is more racist the Labour party or the Tories? According to recent news reports it seems to be a tie. Before you start sharp shooting at politics put your own house in order.


Seeing racism in comparisons of our first family to apes doesn't take a sharp shooter.
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 09:01 am
@snood,
Yeah as usual you disregard the point of my post in order to further your bigoted political ideology
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 09:18 am
Memorial to Emmett Till blasted with bullets — but sign marking killer’s home adorned with flowers

http://2d0yaz2jiom3c6vy7e7e5svk.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Sign-marking-spot-where-Emmett-Tills-body-was-found-Facebook-800x430.png

A sign marking the spot where Emmett Till’s mangled body was found floating in the Tallahatchie River has been riddled with bullets — while a similar sign marking the home of his killer is adorned with flowers.

The 14-year-old Till was kidnapped, brutally beaten and shot execution-style by J.W. Milam and Roy Bryant on Aug. 28, 1955, after the teenager whistled at Bryant’s wife to impress his cousins and some other boys.
The men were acquitted after a brief trial, and Milam later said they were more worried about getting caught for stealing an industrial fan blade they used to weigh down Till’s body than they were about killing the black child.

“I didn’t intend to kill the n****r when we went and got him – just whip him and chase him back up yonder,” Milam told Look magazine in 1957.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/memorial-to-emmitt-till-blasted-with-bullets-but-sign-marking-killers-home-adorned-with-flowers/

Wish I was in the land o' cotton.... yee-hah
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 10:51 am
I remember when Emmit was murdered. My school teacher brought a record of a song about it to class and played it for us, because she felt it helped us understand what took place a bit better. I was fortunate to grow up in that part of California, because, there, integration had already taken place.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2016 10:54 am
@snood,
That is heart-breaking.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  4  
Reply Wed 26 Apr, 2017 05:38 pm
This is the story of TWO mentally ill men. One of them is the inmate who died of dehydration and the other is the Sheriff who let it happen.

In Sheriff David Clarke’s jail, water kept from mentally ill inmate for 7 days before he died of dehydration

Quote:
Just a few hours into Terrill Thomas’ eighth day in solitary confinement at the Milwaukee County Jail last year, correction officers found the 38-year-old man on the ground and not moving.

He was dead.

Thomas had spent his final days begging for water, inmates later told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, because jail staff had shut off the flow to the pipes in his cell as punishment for bad behavior.

The cause of death was ultimately ruled “profound dehydration” and the medical examiner classified it a homicide — meaning death at the hands of others — an announcement that drew a torrent of rage from Sheriff David Clarke, a tough-talking and loyal President Trump surrogate.

Still, nearly a year later, no criminal charges have been filed in Thomas’ death.
 

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