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Will Donald Trump Be Afraid To Debate Hillary Clinton?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 04:20 pm
@georgeob1,
Why most startup businesses fail.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwagner/2013/09/12/five-reasons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/#9f0e3055e3c6
Builder
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I was self-employed for many years, and had a few casual staff when really busy. I now work for an established company, who keep me busy. I'm still free to take on work of my own.

We even have a long-service leave plan for casual workers, so that's good.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 04:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I've been lucky I guess. I've worked for 3 different startup's since 2008 and all of them have been either purchased or merged with another company. 3 for 3 for the owners, since all 3 companies were pretty much run by the same group of people who hired the same batch of engineers and tech support people.

In support of your article, I can say that when the first company sold there were 4 new companies that were created when people started leaving the first company. Of those 4 storage start up companies only 2 became anything, the other 2 crashed and burned. Storage is a tough business when you have 4 companies in the same geographical area doing much of the same thing product wise. Since I've worked for the 3rd company, who was merged this year with another type of storage company, a lot of the superior engineers have left the company, this includes 2 of the people who were mostly responsible for the original code, and have since tired of the startup game.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 04:48 pm
@Builder,
I really loved my job as Field Auditor after college, because I was essentially my own boss. Made my own schedule to audit shops in the seven western states, and the company provided me with an American Express card for all of my expenses. That was the fist time in my life I stayed in five star hotels. Wink
The funny thing is, even at those luxury hotels, I wore casual clothes after work, when the other patrons wore formal clothing. The negative part of my job was going out with store managers to drink all night. The positive part was learning all the tricks of the trade in how store managers could manipulate the books. That 'training' was the key to being promoted to Audit Manager for the company. My liver is probably shot, but at 81 I'm still above ground.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 05:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,


Intersting article. It illustrates the basic fact that to suceed an entrepreneur must do many things well and will inexorably face the inexorable judgment of the marketplace as to how well he/she did them all. Failure in any one area can be irrecoverable and is usually irreversible. Good intentions count for nothing - only results matter. It's the same as war.

It's not just drawing a paycheck.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 05:51 pm
Giuliani: I'd skip next debates if I were Trump
Source: Politico

Donald Trump should skip the next two debates unless he gets special guarantees from the moderators, former New York mayor and top Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani told reporters after the debate.

Lester Holt, the NBC News anchor who moderated the debate, should be “ashamed of himself,” Giuliani said after the debate. He said Holt was wrong to attempt to fact-check Trump on the constitutionality of stop-and-frisk and his claimed opposition to the Iraq War.
Story Continued Below

“If I were Donald Trump I wouldn’t participate in another debate unless I was promised that the journalist would act like a journalist and not an incorrect, ignorant fact checker,” Giuliani said. “The moderator would have to promise that there would be a moderator and not a fact checker and in two particular cases an enormously ignorant, completely misinformed fact checker.”

“If you wonder why Donald Trump thinks that the press is a left-wing basically oriented group, Lester Holt proved it tonight," he added.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/giuliani-trump-debates-228756
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 05:54 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
34,000 people would disagree with you. How many jobs in America have you created?


Pure trash talk signifying nothing. How many workers do you personally employ?

See what I mean?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 06:58 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
A good journalist seeks truth and facts.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 07:00 pm
What does principled journalism look like? Like this:

"As if local newspapers did not have enough problems, with plummeting circulation and shrinking staffs, some recent endorsements of Hillary Clinton by editorial boards look like more self-inflicted wounds by an industry that specializes in them.

When the Arizona Republic endorsed Clinton this week, longtime readers threatened to cancel their subscriptions — and many others trashed the paper on Facebook. When the Dallas Morning News endorsed the Democratic presidential nominee this month, cancellations followed, and protesters picketed the building.

“We’ve paid a price for our presidential recommendation,” Dallas Morning News editor Mike Wilson told Poynter.org, a site for news about the media, but he would not say exactly how many subscriptions had been lost.

In both cases (and quite a few others, including the Cincinnati Enquirer), these papers had not endorsed a Democrat for president in generations." https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/why-red-state-newspaper-endorsements-of-clinton-are-not-as-dumb-as-they-look/2016/09/28/a4e26ab2-8584-11e6-92c2-14b64f3d453f_story.html
Builder
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 07:12 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
“We’ve paid a price for our presidential recommendation,”


Where is the GOP on this? They allowed the process to reach this point.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 07:19 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
34,000 people would disagree with you. How many jobs in America have you created?


Pure trash talk signifying nothing. How many workers do you personally employ?

See what I mean?


Do you read stuff before posting? Did you read Izzy's post that I responded to so you would have context?

my post was hardly trash talk. I used to employ 2 people, but I decided it was too much work so I went back to work for someone else. I have no problem telling anyone that I work for someone else. I enjoy the work and I don't have the responsibilities I used to have.

How is what I said trash talk? Do you deny that Trump employs people? Izzy would have you believe he is a leech and that's just not the case.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 07:28 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

What does principled journalism look like? Like this:


There's more than a few principles out there and hard to know which one was operating in each case. One possibility might be currying favor with the leaders of the particular group think that prevails in the organization. Well educated academics have provided us all a large set of sometimes amusing and otherwise ludicrous examples of this. Sometimes lofty academic stature does not protect one from demeaning comedy.

You are assuming you know the answer here, but do you really know?

Do you even admit the possibility that one could favor Trump, or even oppose Hillary on a principled basis? I suspect not.
Kolyo
 
  3  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 08:27 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

There's not a magic quality that makes someone an entrepreneur. Tons of wannabe entrepreneurs fail. Tons of incredibly successful people draw a paycheck.


If an entrepreneur starts a company that grows to provide 100 jobs, but then he does a middling job and brings the company near to collapse; and if a few brilliant engineers save the company and power it forward to the point where it can employ 1,000 people, who is responsible for "creating 1,000 jobs"? I certainly don't think the entrepreneur deserves ALL the credit.

And some on this thread seem to be asserting it takes more creative flare to sell apples than to build Apples.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 28 Sep, 2016 09:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
One possibility might be currying favor with the leaders of the particular group think that prevails in the organization.

Given the examples that Sullivan references where papers which have consistently supported GOP presidential candidates for up to 100 years of their operation's history and yet now break from that tradition, explicitly stating they have done so because of the singular level of unfitness for office that Trump represents (each of them giving that exact rationale) and given that countless senior conservatives from media and government have also expressed that very same concern and have stated they either will not vote for Trump or will vote for Clinton - and do so even while causing damage to themselves financially or in terms of social alliances because of the civic and international disaster a Trump presidency would almost certainly present - makes your alternate hypothesis look just about as silly as an hypothesis could look. Get real George.

Quote:
Do you even admit the possibility that one could favor Trump, or even oppose Hillary on a principled basis? I suspect not.

There are many liberals/progressives who do not support (or reluctantly support) Clinton on a principled basis: too likely to continue a status quo, too likely to support military aggression, etc.

As to favoring Trump on a principled basis, what would such a principle be? That anyone or anything that can work damage on liberal notions and values must axiomatically be a good thing? Something else? What?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 06:56 am
@georgeob1,
Entrepreneurs aren't a limited resource.
hingehead
 
  3  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 07:11 am
Has anyone mentioned that entrepreneurs have a cost?

If they don't succeed they go chapter 11 - which the public pay for. Anyone want to tell me what entrepreneurial success rates are? I'm gonna guess maybe 1 in 9 for the first five years.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  7  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 07:16 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Do you even admit the possibility that one could favor Trump, or even oppose Hillary on a principled basis?

I can see the possibility that one could oppose Clinton or Trump on a principled basis. After all, there are a lot of single or few issue voters who might say for example, "I can see some positives in Clinton, but she is for abortion rights and I can't vote for someone who supports that." If someone told me that they were voting third party or not voting because they have a principled opposition to both candidates, I'd debate that with them, but it wouldn't cause me a hard spot.

That said, if they told me they were voting for Trump because of their principles, I would definitely have to reconsider my opinion of them. Trump has supported abortion rights in the past, now says he is against them and he was a lot more convincing in the past. He has said he is for higher taxes and lower taxes, has lobbied the government to help his businesses and says he is for less government. He's supported gun restrictions (and did so again in the debate) and calls on his second amendment buddies if he loses to protect the Supreme Court. The only consistent position Trump has held over say the last thirty years is his bigotry. If your principles are that white men are superior and deserve a privileged place in society, then voting for Trump is a principled vote, but IMO, those are questionable principles.

blatham
 
  4  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 07:51 am
@engineer,
Quote:
The only consistent position Trump has held over say the last thirty years is his bigotry.

I think one could add to your short list another which is implicit in his response that avoiding paying taxes is "smart" and in his history of refusing to pay bills accrued through contracts/agreements with other businesses and in his history of bankruptcies and buying off politicians (and bragging about how these served his personal financial ambitions), etc.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 08:06 am
In contrast to my positive take on those three newspapers' editorial stance this cycle, Brian Beutler makes a very good case that their laudable present position/statements was preceded by a long history of something far less laudable:

Quote:
The Arizona Republic, which has “never endorsed a Democrat over a Republican for president” in 126 years, now finds that “Clinton has the temperament and experience to be president.” The Cincinnati Enquirer, which “has supported Republicans for president for a century,” admits that “Clinton is a known commodity with a proven track record of governing.” And the Dallas Morning News, which “has not recommended a Democrat for the nation’s highest office since before World War II,” lets on that “Clinton has spent years in the trenches doing the hard work needed to prepare herself to lead our nation.”

These are apt and welcome admissions against ideological interest, motivated explicitly by Trump’s moral ugliness and unfitness for the presidency. But their timing is heavily suggestive of a lesson learned too late: that we should be faithful to reality in criticizing ideological foes and not tolerate others’ efforts to demean and slander them out of convenience.

These editorials, written by experienced conservative journalists, are implicit admissions that the overwhelming majority of horrifying, conspiratorial things conservatives and Republicans have said about Clinton over the years—from accusing her of murdering Vince Foster, to orchestrating and covering up the terrorist attacks in Benghazi, to endangering U.S. national security with her email setup—have been instrumentalist agitprop. Liberals have understood all along that Clinton’s depiction in right-wing circles is a grotesque caricature. But not everybody has been in on the scam. And it’s troubling that a true-to-life rendering only emerged now, six weeks before an election in which the very integrity of American democracy is at stake.
https://newrepublic.com/article/137307/oh-now-youre-ok-hillary-clinton
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 29 Sep, 2016 08:17 am
@blatham,
I believe I am viewing the present electoral contest far more realistically than are you.

I'll readiy concede that Trump is a bit of a bombast and hip-shooter, who flouts the conventional standards of (ahem !) serious political candidates , like, for example Hillary Clinton. There are indeed, as you say a number of Republican Papers, magazines (NRL is your example) and politicians who either oppose or are rather silent about him. No argument from me on any of those accounts.

However there is indeed widespread, and perhaps growing, popular support out there for his candidacy. His victory in the coming election is, at least, a significant possibility, and some might argue, likelihood. (indeed I detect a growing unease among the left wing pontificators here.) What is the cause of that? It isn't just Fox news ? Not likely : they have their counterparts on the opposite side of the poitical spectrum who just as relentlessly propagandzize with the same skill and energy.

My opinion is that we are encountering growing public opposition to and disguist with the evident political corruption of the current administration and the personal and political corruption of the current Democrat Candidate, coupled with disenchantment with the track record of public programs that accomplish little of what they promise, while delivering - at great cost - numerous adverse side effects, all while failing to address growing issues involving slow economic growth, steadily rising debt and increasing external security concerns.

Noting Trumps many imperfections does little to address those growing concerns, while the odor of corruption and political fixes surrounding Clinton undermines the effect of the vacuous promises she makes.

It is interesting to me, in terms of our different outlooks and backgrounds, that you are the one who appear to be more inclined to accept arguments based on the supposed authority of the authors. Ironic, isn't it?
 

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