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Will Donald Trump Be Afraid To Debate Hillary Clinton?

 
 
panzade
 
  6  
Sun 25 Sep, 2016 08:31 pm
@georgeob1,
Georgeob wrote:
Quote:
And, of course, in the Clinton world one must parse words very carefully and know what the applicable definition of "is" is ,

I love the way you attempt to "shame" a woman for an indiscretion committed by her husband.
You're a typical Trump supporter.
Shame. I expected more.
revelette2
 
  2  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 06:41 am
@panzade,
Quote:
Shame. I expected more.


Why I wonder?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 07:52 am
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

Georgeob wrote:
Quote:
And, of course, in the Clinton world one must parse words very carefully and know what the applicable definition of "is" is ,

I love the way you attempt to "shame" a woman for an indiscretion committed by her husband.
You're a typical Trump supporter.
Shame. I expected more.


What nonsense ! Hillary herself has demonstrated more of the deceptions and evasions of truth and accountability than even her husband - "nothing marked as classified"; " I wanted to put all my communications on one device" etc. She now masquerades as a defender of women after participating in the slander and attacks on the characters of his female victims, and then blaming it all on "a vast right wing conspiracy". The "meaning of is" bit was mearly a very communicative encapsulation of a favored technique of the two, given to us by her more creative husband.

Your self-inflated indignation is a both comical and contemptible: you make your self look like an ass.

What is "a typical Trump supporter" ?

georgeob1
 
  -2  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 07:59 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Quote:
as life teaches us there are indeeed very often real differences of opinion as to exactly what are the facts, and modertors don't necessarily have an exclusive possesion of the objective facts.


There are some things that are near impossible to extricate from the grey area, granted. But there are also some things that are demonstrably true or untrue, For instance, for Donald Trump to say 'I stopped talking about the birther thing since I made him produce his birth certificate.' Is a lie. For him to say 'Hillary Clinton started the rumor that he was not born here' is a lie. These things are easy to prove. The former by the existence of video evidence that shows Trump touting the birther nonsense for years after the long form birth certificate surfaced. The latter by the absence of any kind of evidence anywhere that Hillary or any of her operatives started the 'Obama born in Kenya' nonsense.


I generally agree with you about that. Trump was posturing and giving himself credit he certainly didn't deserve for his so-called ending of the birther business. Beyond that you do overstate your case a bit. There is substantial evidence that Hillary's operartives in the 2008 primary campign did indeed generate leaks and statements that contributed to the issue during her campaign agaist Obama in the Democrat primary, though she herself didn't explicitly ad to it. A well-known technique in politics.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 08:21 am
Robert Reich
11 mins ·
If you want to know who wins tonight's debate, watch the debate with the sound off. It won't be a "debate" over facts and policies. It will be a demonstration of attitude -- confidence, determination, dominance, poise, strength, steadiness, level-headedness. More than any presidential debate in recent American history, it will be less about substance or knowledge than about personality and power. Americans won't be listening. They'll be watching.
snood
 
  3  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 08:30 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
There is substantial evidence that Hillary's operartives in the 2008 primary campign did indeed generate leaks and statements that contributed to the issue during her campaign agaist Obama in the Democrat primary, though she herself didn't explicitly ad to it. A well-known technique in politics.


This is not true. There is evidence that ONE Hillary supporter fed a rumor that Obama was a Muslim. That's ALL (I guess it needs repeating that being a Muslim doesn't mean you're not American). NOTHING from ANYONE about him not being a natural born American. This is what I mean. You can't prove any of that statement you just made about "Hillary's operatives (plural)" and "substantial evidence", and "did generalt leaks"... NONE of it. Prove me wrong. You're just repeating innuendo with NO evidence. The suggested connection between Hillary Clinton and rumors that Obama is not an American born citizen is just a LIE.

This is where the connection with the 'Muslim' talk to Hillary got started.:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/sep/25/obama-muslim-myth-clinton-connection/
On Dec. 5, 2007, the online magazine Politico posted the text of an email that had been forwarded by Judy Rose, the volunteer chair of the Clinton campaign in Jones County Iowa on Nov. 21, 2007. The email was a quintessential smear that offered a distorted biography of Obama’s early years. Rose offered no commentary on it. She simply passed it along.

"Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim," the email said, and it ended with, "The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States , one of their own!!!!"
snood
 
  4  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 08:40 am
@snood,
By the way - that quick internet search I just did? That's fact checking. If I can do it, anyone can.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 09:09 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
I guess it needs repeating that being a Muslim doesn't mean you're not American


Quote:
Ibtihaj Muhammad, a Muslim woman from Maplewood, New Jersey, stood on a medal stand Saturday night, wearing a black hijab and squeezing the hands of two other women from New Jersey. The one on her left was born in Poland and had purple hair. The one on the right was born in New York and graduated from Penn State University. They were all three, a sliver of the America they represented as a bronze medal sabre fencing team. As much a story of their country as their blonde team-mate from Oregon who stood at the end and went to Notre Dame.

No American medal at these Olympics might matter as much as the bronze circle that dangled around the neck of Muhammad and her team-mates. Not this summer, not when a presidential candidate says people like her don’t belong in his country and doesn’t appear to know what an American actually is. So on Saturday she grabbed the hand of her purple-haired teammate from Poland and her New York-born teammate who went to Penn State and they threw their arms in the air. Then they watched the American flag rise into the rafters.

“I’m hoping that through my experiences here at the Olympic games – winning a medal – that I combat those stereotypes about Muslims and African Americans, and even women,” she said after her Olympics were over. “We’re like any other athletes we have worked really hard for this, and I can’t think of a more deserving group of girls to go home with a medal.”



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/13/ibtihaj-muhammad-fencing-olympics-2016-bronze
snood
 
  4  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 09:35 am
But, do you all see how easy it is, to keep spreading a LIE? George stated, like it was accepted fact, that there was "substantial evidence" Hillary's operatives "generated leaks" that Obama was not born here. THAT IS A LIE. It is not "sort of" true. It is not true 'depending on one's perspective'. It is a LIE.

farmerman
 
  5  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 09:42 am
@izzythepush,
I just hope that the Trump Phenomenon will also disappear as people come to their senses just before election day.

We cant merely accept that the bar is purposely left low for the Donald.

Im afraid that, by giving him a pass, these voters who, by showing their dislike of Hillry, or their love for Brnie, will vote a third prty candidate which will, most likely aid Trump and usher in a dark age of a hard edge Supreme Court that will undue everything progressive from Roe, to Aguillard, to national firearms act.



0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 10:07 am
@snood,
Stating untruths as facts is his standing operating method. I have given up on posting with him because of it. He will not have one shred of his "substantial evidence" in return. He will just reword what he has already said as though it is absolutely true.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 10:29 am
@georgeob1,

Quote:
What nonsense ! Hillary herself has demonstrated more of the deceptions and evasions of truth and accountability than even her husband - "nothing marked as classified";

The FBI has stated that nothing was clearly marked as classified. There were a couple of paragraphs that contained a "c" that was considered a classification marking but the FBI stated without the header on the document itself it wasn't properly classified. The State Department said the "c" should have been removed because the information contained was declassified when sent.

So, let's look at the deceptions and evasions of truth. It seems you are guilty of more deception and evasion of truth than Hilary is on this issue.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisiting-clinton-and-classified-information/
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 10:42 am
Quote:
Election Update: Where The Race Stands Heading Into The First Debate

By Nate Silver

Filed under 2016 Election


Whatever arguments we’ve had about the polls this week will soon be swamped by the reaction to Monday’s presidential debate. As a rough guide, I’d expect us to have some initial sense of how the debate has moved the numbers by Thursday or Friday based on quick-turnaround polls, and a clearer one by next Sunday or so, when an array of higher-quality polls will begin to report their post-debate results as well.

But in the meantime, let’s take one more step back and ask our usual collection of 10 questions about where the presidential race stands. Think of these as time capsules of a sort; you can find previous editions here (July 15), here (Aug. 15) and here (Sept. 6).



1. Who’s ahead in the polls right now?

Hillary Clinton, but tenuously. There were some semantic debates on Twitter this morning after ABC News and the Washington Post released their new national poll that showed Clinton 2 points ahead of Donald Trump. Did the Post convey the right impression in describing the race as a “virtual dead heat” in its headline?

I might have chosen slightly different vocabulary: “Clinton has razor-thin advantage,” or something like that. But it’s basically correct, at least based on the FiveThirtyEight forecast, to characterize the election as both close
and competitive. The ABC News/Post poll is typical of recent national polls, which have Clinton up by about 2 points on average. (That average includes some high-quality polls that have Clinton ahead by as many as 6 points, but also a handful of others that show Trump with a lead.) Meanwhile, in the Electoral College, Clinton is leading in the states she needs to win, but only in those states, and not by all that much. Trump is one string of good polls in Pennsylvania or Colorado or New Hampshire away from erasing that advantage.

To put it another way, a narrow Trump win would not count as a major polling foul-up if the election were held today: It would be within a reasonable range of disagreement among pollsters. A clear Trump win — or for that matter, a Clinton landslide — would be more of a problem for the polls.

With that said, Clinton is a pretty good bet at even-money. As of Sunday morning, she’s a 58 percent favorite according to both our polls-only and polls-plus models.

2. What’s the degree of uncertainty?

It remains fairly high. This is the point that we really can’t emphasize enough, and it’s why FiveThirtyEight shows somewhat better odds for Trump than most other forecast models. Not all 2-point leads are created equal, and Clinton’s is on the less-safe side, certainly as compared with the roughly 2-point lead that President Obama had over Mitt Romney on the eve of the 2012 election.

Perhaps the most important reason for that is the higher-than-usual number of undecided and third-party voters. Clinton leads Trump roughly 42-40, based on our national polling average; late in the 2012 race, by contrast, Obama led Romney about 48-46. That means about 18 percent of the electorate isn’t yet committed to one of the major-party candidates, as compared with 6 percent late in 2012.1

The number of undecided and third-party voters has a strong historical correlation with both polling volatility and polling error — and in fact, the polls have been considerably more volatile this year than in 2012.

We also have a wider playing field of swing states this year — with states ranging from Georgia to Maine having been competitive at various points of the campaign. Thus, there’s a good chance that the polls (and the polling aggregators) will “call” several states wrong instead of getting 48 or 49 or 50 of them right, as they did in 2008 and 2012. That introduces important assumptions about how the errors between states are related. FiveThirtyEight’s model assumes these errors are somewhat correlated, especially in demographically similar states. If Trump beats his polls in Wisconsin, for example, he’s also likely to do so in Michigan.

Finally, it can be easy to lose sight of the fact that we still have a fairly long way to go. With the party conventions held early this year, everyone’s sense of timing was thrown off, and the 44 remaining days in this campaign are going to feel like an eternity.

It’s important to underscore that this uncertainty cuts in both directions. We give Trump better odds of winning than most other models, but we also assign higher odds to a Clinton landslide.

3. What’s the short-term trend in the polls?

In the very short-term — i.e., what the polls look like as compared with a week ago — it’s not clear. Clinton had appeared to be regaining some ground on Trump, but the polls that came in over the weekend were middling for her, including surveys showing just a 1-point Clinton lead in Colorado and a 2-point lead in Pennsylvania. Whether these changes reflect voters reacting to events in the news cycle or are just random fluctuations is hard to say.

4. What’s the medium-term trend in the polls?

It’s been toward Trump for a long time now. Clinton’s position peaked on Aug. 8 in the polls-plus model and Aug. 14 in polls-only. Trump has slowly and fairly steadily gained ground since then, closing his deficit by about 1 percentage point a week, to narrow Clinton’s lead from about 8 points in mid-August to 2 points now.

5. Which states shape up as most important?

There’s not any one key state, which is part of the reason the election remains uncertain — and exciting. Instead, the various swing states are currently lined up on either side of a gap, with Clinton leading in states representing 272 electoral votes2 and Trump ahead in states totalling 266 electoral votes.

If any of the states just to Clinton’s side of the gap slips toward Trump — Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Michigan are the most plausible candidates — he’ll pull ahead in the Electoral College. But conversely, Trump leads by less than 1 percentage point in Florida and by barely more than that in North Carolina and if either of those were to fall to Clinton, his electoral math would become very difficult. The same is theoretically true for Ohio, although Trump’s lead has been more consistent there.

6. Does one candidate appear to have an overall edge in the Electoral College, relative to his or her position in the popular vote?

It’s complicated. There could plausibly be an Electoral College-popular vote split in either direction, but our models say that Trump is somewhat more likely to benefit from this.

Right now, Clinton is ahead by 2.0 percentage points in our national popular vote estimate. She’s also ahead by 2.8 percentage points in Colorado, which is currently the tipping-point state — the state that would give her just enough votes to win the Electoral College. That’s a potential advantage for Clinton, but it requires the polls to be pretty much exactly on the mark.

By contrast, Clinton’s position overall in swing state polls has not been especially good, in part because they tend to have a high proportion of white working-class voters — Trump’s best group. In particular, she’s gotten some pretty awful numbers in Ohio, Iowa and Nevada lately, and her position in North Carolina seems to be worsening. If instead of treating Colorado as definitely being the tipping-point state, we instead weight the states by their probability of being the tipping-point state, Clinton’s lead over Trump is 1.2 percentage points in the average swing state, less than her national margin and therefore a potential Electoral College disadvantage for her.

Basically, it’s a question of whether you’d rather have pretty good polling in exactly enough states to win 270 electoral votes, at the cost of pretty bad polling in the swing states overall. Our models say that isn’t a great trade-off for Clinton because having one good path leaves too little room for error. But this calculation is somewhat sensitive to our model’s assumptions. At a minimum, it’s another source of uncertainty.

7. How do the “fundamentals” look?

Non-polling factors such as economic conditions suggest that a race between a “generic” Democrat and a “generic” Republican ought to be close. In that sense, it shouldn’t be hard to see how Trump could win. He either becomes normalized enough that he performs about the same as a generic Republican would, or he significantly underperforms a generic Republican but Clinton’s problems are just as bad.

8. How do FiveThirtyEight’s forecasts compare against prediction markets?

In general, FiveThirtyEight’s polls-plus model has closely tracked betting markets — more closely than any other major forecast (including our own polls-only model). There’s a modest gap between them now. Whereas polls-plus gives Clinton a 58 percent chance and Trump a 42 percent chance, Betfair gives Clinton a 62 percent chance and Trump a 34 percent chance (reserving a 4 percent chance that someone other than Clinton or Trump somehow becomes the next president, a possibility that FiveThirtyEight’s models do not consider).

For a variety of reasons, ranging from the fact that that gap isn’t all that large to that betting markets can plausibly account for some factors that FiveThirtyEight’s models don’t, I’m not sure about whether I think there’s enough edge there that I’d actually advocate laying money down on Trump. I suppose I wish there were a betting market open only to political journalists and commentators, though. My hard-to-prove sense is that they underrate Trump’s chances as compared with both betting markets and our forecasts.

9. What would keep me up late at night if I were Clinton?

You mean, other than the fact that the election keeps getting closer every time I look?

As I put it in July: “I’d be worried that Americans come to view the race as one between two equally terrible choices, instead of Trump being uniquely unacceptable.” In particular, I’d be worried that my brand has irrevocably been tarnished with a reputation for dishonesty. Between Trump’s knack for exploiting this weakness (“Crooked Hillary”), the news media’s tendency to frame events as contributing to my honesty and trust problems, and some left-over hard feelings from the primaries — Clinton has yet to win over many of the millennials who voted for Bernie Sanders — I’m generally losing when polls ask who the more trustworthy candidate is.

In the short term, I’d be worried that the talk of Trump’s “low expectations” at the first debate is a tip-off that the media hivemind might frame a debate tie as a Trump win.

10. What would keep me up late at night if I were Trump?

Trump’s concerns also aren’t all that different from those he had in July.

If I were him, I’d be worried that even at my best moments, I’ve never really pulled ahead of Clinton, instead only drawing to within a point or two of her. I wouldn’t be that worried because it’s not clear how predictive those patterns are. But it certainly wouldn’t thrill me, especially given that the debates make for natural turning points and if the pattern holds, the next turning point will be back toward Clinton. I’d continue to be worried about my ground game, or lack thereof. It’s hard to say exactly how much that’s worth, but underperforming my polls by even half a percentage point in the swing states would make my Electoral College path meaningfully harder.


538
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  -4  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 10:48 am
@parados,
Quote:
The FBI has stated that nothing was clearly marked as classified.


"Gowdy: “Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her private email. Was that true?”

Comey: “Our investigation found that there was classified information sent.”

Gowdy: “So it was not true?”

Comey: “That's what I said.”

WRONG AGAIN !!!
maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 11:11 am
@woiyo,
Misstatements or mistakes or being misinformed are not necessarily lies and you know this.

If Sec. Clinton forgot that 3 of her 60,000+ emails contained a paragraph with a "C" marking in the wrong place then she would not be lying.
snood
 
  2  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 12:18 pm
Hillary Clinton measure of success:
Show herself to be a strong, experienced, capable leader ready to lead the country, but not too forceful so she can appear relaxed. Answer policy questions with logical and clear yet short answers, so she doesn't appear too wonky. Be very direct in confronting Donald Trump on some of his lies, flaws and frauds, but don't get too insulting so that he can't get sympathy points.
Even though it might use a lot of her speaking time, she has to fact-check Trump when he tells a whopper. If she is challenged on emails, Benghazi or Clinton Foundation, answer in a way so that she takes accountability for her actions and doesn't make excuses, but short enough so that she doesn't appear too lawyer- like. Smile, smile, smile!

Donald Trump measure of success:
Show up, answer with words, don't tell dick jokes.
parados
 
  5  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 12:30 pm
@woiyo,
Never receiving any information that was marked classified is not the same thing as never receiving any classified information.

If you want to allow for Gowdy's misrepresentation of Clinton's statement to be your benchmark then we really have no way to converse. You simply rely on others lies to support your opinion.
woiyo
 
  -1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 12:52 pm
@parados,
Whatever. The problem with your position is it is clouded by inability to view the obvious with any objectivity. Therefore, whenever an absolute fact is presented, you will ignore is as a "misrepresentation". Except when the accusation is made against one who holds an opposing point of view from you.

That makes you narrow minded.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 01:02 pm
@woiyo,
woiyo wrote:

Quote:
The FBI has stated that nothing was clearly marked as classified.


"Gowdy: “Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her private email. Was that true?”

Comey: “Our investigation found that there was classified information sent.”

Gowdy: “So it was not true?”

Comey: “That's what I said.”

WRONG AGAIN !!!

You're a lying liar who posts lies that have been proven to be lies.

Gowdy's statement is false; Clinton did not make that claim.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 26 Sep, 2016 01:02 pm
@snood,
Ain't it the truth?
0 Replies
 
 

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