Bush AWOL documents fake?

Good one, blatham Laughing

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http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040909_1710.html

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/596astgo.asp

http://www.hughhewitt.com/#postid874

(copies of the documents)
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/News/Politics/BushGuardDocs.PDF

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000838.php

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12526_Bush_Guard_Documents-_Forged

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at this point it really doesn't matter to what, if any, degree the documents are forged/inaccurate. Not unlike the swifters, it's the public perception that matters. Bush has a historic halo of questions regarding his military service, doubts are inevitable. Of course the debate will continue as to the accuracy of the memos, never to be fully resolved.

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All a lawyer needs is a miniscule benefit of the doubt to make an illusion stick.

And that's politics for ya.

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Forget, for the moment, the public reaction to Bush on this memo flap. We'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out, see if we can find out "who knew what?"

But think about the public's reaction to the major media? Yet another story that undermines the credibility of a major news outlet! And, assuming that the forgery is established, what about the fact that within mere hours of CBS's airing the story, a cluster of "right wing" bloggers were able to investigate and shred it? (These are, of course, many of the same folks who blew the lid off "Christmas in Cambodia" when the major media had totally missed it. Interesting that many of the "old media" new sources are using the questions and expert testimony gathered by the blogs without acknowledging the source.)

There figures to be a big blowup --especially if the growing belief that the memos are forgeries becomes firmly established. There's no avoiding it now that Dan Rather has made a public statement that He KNOWS this story is true, and there will be NO retraction! So, is he privy to something no one has yet imagined that will explain away all the problems with the memos? Or has he just gone off the deep end or decided to go out with a (horrific) bang?!

Meanwhile the "Rove set it up" theory --a predictable suggestion some Dems quickly started floating last night-- is too cute by half. And whether the source of the memos is Dem or GOP, officially tied or some independent rogue operation, is moot as far as CBS is concerned. They made their decision to run the story, and to take their stand on it. If they are fake, CBS has no one else to blame but themselves for a shoddy investigation.

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Cute? There's nothing cute about any of this idiocy.

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Well, I don't know what to make of any of it. If they are fake, they are so obviously fake that I can't imagine how 1) CBS could have used them and 2) how the whitehouse would not have checked them before releasing them and 3) that it's possible the Democrats could be stupid enough to have been involved in this mess. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

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Karl Rove is utterly notorious for doing anything to get his boy elected. But really. What could POSSIBLY be the advantage of Democrats forging something like this? It's OBVIOUS that anything that may appear falsified on these records would be HIGHLY advantageous for George Bush and his operatives. They would have much to gain, and Dems would have much to lose in the more immediate political future.

But Freeduck raises some good, credible points:

Why would CBS use them after using their own experts in meticulously going over these documents?

Why didn't the White House also use experts to make sure these documents were authentic (they've done that with OTHER documents).

Is it TRULY possible that Democrats could be that stupid enough to do this? I SERIOUSLY doubt it. As there is so much at stake, and as we have already seen where the majority of the smear has been coming from, suspicions are firmly directed towards Mr. Rove and his ilk.

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bruhahah wrote:

Forget, for the moment, the public reaction to Bush on this memo flap. We'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out, see if we can find out "who knew what?"

But think about the public's reaction to the major media? Yet another story that undermines the credibility of a major news outlet! And, assuming that the forgery is established, what about the fact that within mere hours of CBS's airing the story, a cluster of "right wing" bloggers were able to investigate and shred it? (These are, of course, many of the same folks who blew the lid off "Christmas in Cambodia" when the major media had totally missed it. Interesting that many of the "old media" new sources are using the questions and expert testimony gathered by the blogs without acknowledging the source.)

There figures to be a big blowup --especially if the growing belief that the memos are forgeries becomes firmly established. There's no avoiding it now that Dan Rather has made a public statement that He KNOWS this story is true, and there will be NO retraction! So, is he privy to something no one has yet imagined that will explain away all the problems with the memos? Or has he just gone off the deep end or decided to go out with a (horrific) bang?!

Meanwhile the "Rove set it up" theory --a predictable suggestion some Dems quickly started floating last night-- is too cute by half. And whether the source of the memos is Dem or GOP, officially tied or some independent rogue operation, is moot as far as CBS is concerned. They made their decision to run the story, and to take their stand on it. If they are fake, CBS has no one else to blame but themselves for a shoddy investigation.

Now this post isn't so laudable.

The 'credibility of the major media' (read "it's ubiquitous leftism" or "anti-Bushism"?) isn't much of an issue with anyone but the right wing media (almost all of which carries no representation other than one political voice, as opposed to all the major media such as the NY Times with Safire and Brooks...etc). Where the credibility of the major media is a valid issue is in it's recent tendency to trust and obsequiousness as regards this administration. However, if this proves to be a forgery, the right media will have gained a victory which it has no real right to celebrate, and other folks will find another good reason to be apathetic because it isn't just the administration lying through its teeth.

So, let's wait and see. Predictable is that regardless of what any objective and competent person/body might conclude, the right media will join in denigration of said source. Contrarywise, too.

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ehBeth wrote:

Cute? There's nothing cute about any of this idiocy.

You misunderstand me -- the expression means, "The idea is rather too clever to be plausible." In other words, it is is too complicated/convoluted to believe someone would really be operating that way. There seems to be no end to the devious plans Rove's opponents think this "evil genius" is capable of. (Sure he's sharp; but this is a bit much.)

Considering that Bush is doing well in the polls, it seems all the crazier that Rove would try such a thing.

Another consideration in the timing of all this. The 60 Minutes story breaks practically in tandem with the "Texans for Truth" ads (not to mention leaking of stories from Kitty Kelly's forthcoming book). All three at once -- if anyone is masterminding THAT kind of co-ordination it sure isn't Rove. (Or, if it is, Kerry ought to quit now, because Rove must control EVERYTHING!)

Point --the idea that the Bush campaign is behind these forged documents is a preposterous idea. (As I was typing this, I got proof! Terry McAuliffe just suggested it all came from Rove!!)

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The documents are real. I typed them at the time. Really. There, now you can all relax.

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Quote:

Karl Rove is utterly notorious for doing anything to get his boy elected.

Dookiestix, am I mistaken in the belief that it is Karl Rove's JOB to get Bush elected? I would hope that he is doing his best, otherwise they would fire him.

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McGentrix:

Actually, you are mistaken in the belief that somehow pointing out the obvious will win you points in a debate.

This has nothing to do with the ROLE of a campaign advisor. It has everything to do with the digusting tactics employed by Mr. Rove to get his man elected.

But you knew that that's what I was talking about.

Right?

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Quote:

the idea that the Bush campaign is behind these forged documents is a preposterous idea.

Why? The polls are already misleading, and Bush is traveling to battleground states that he NEVER would have visited if he didn't invade Iraq.

This election is still as evenly divided as ever. And like I said, we've ALREADY seen the lengths Karl Rove is willing to go to attack and smear ANY opponent who comes close to Dumbya.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Rove or one of his operatives was behind this. And if the documents WERE forged, and if it starts looking obvious from several other sources that they were, then WHY wouldn't the White House meticulously point this out from the beginning, thereby offering proof from their own hands that these documents were fake (which we just don't know yet)?

Better to keep a distance and let the damage take it's own meandering path, Karl Rove style.

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Since The Media have sunk their teeth into this, the Whitehouse has no dog in the fight. Not to say there wouldn't be interest from the Whitehouse in the eventual outcome of the fight, just that there ain't no Whitehouse dogs in this one.

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I do not think my belief that the memos are not fakes is at all risky and it is a chance I would be willing to bet on.

Inspite of the technical sounding words it is still about fonts.

In any event for the sake of the truth it does not matter if the memos are fakes in regards to Bush and his disgraceful national gaurd service that is on undeniable offical records for anyone to see. He had missed days with no plausible explanation, he was grounded from being a pilot because of a missed physical exam and he missed drills.

I honestly do not for one minute think that any democrat in this ugly election is dumb enough to try and pull something like this that can be so easily busted.

This is just republicans doing the same old thing and sadly they get away with time and time again. Chances are they will shed enough doubt about all this font stuff to where the public will ignore the records that were finally released by the lawsuit for public information act or whatever it was called. They are merely using the same old smoke and mirrors that they are so very good at.

In a couple of weeks, chances are people will know one way one another and I would be very, very surpised if they turn out to be fakes. But it don't matter it will have acomplished it objective of misdirecting the public's attention away from Bush's dismal national guard record.

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revel wrote:

I
This is just republicans doing the same old thing ...

In a couple of weeks, chances are people will know one way one another and I would be very, very surpised if they turn out to be fakes. But it don't matter it will have acomplished it objective of misdirecting the public's attention away from Bush's dismal national guard record.

Oh, I get it. The documents are not fakes, despite all the evidence very strongly suggesting they are. Further if they are fakes, Rove must have orchestrated it, despite the complete absence of any evidence that he did, or even plausible motive for his doing so. Furthermore he must have had in mind a nefarious conspiracy which none of us can either describe or understand.

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georgeob1 wrote:

revel wrote:
I
This is just republicans doing the same old thing ...

In a couple of weeks, chances are people will know one way one another and I would be very, very surpised if they turn out to be fakes. But it don't matter it will have acomplished it objective of misdirecting the public's attention away from Bush's dismal national guard record.

Oh, I get it. The documents are not fakes, despite all the evidence very strongly suggesting they are. Further if they are fakes, Rove must have orchestrated it, despite the complete absence of any evidence that he did, or even plausible motive for his doing so. Furthermore he must have had in mind a nefarious conspiracy which none of us can either describe or understand.

I don't think Rove is behind this. I don 't think they are fakes but if they are then someone who wants kerry to win is behind it. If any democrat is behind it, that would be the dumbest thing any political party ever did in the history of political elections.

Lastly there is not evidence that strongly suggest anything either way.

The objective in raising the possiblity that they are fakes has already been met. That was my point, not that Rove was behind the forgery in the first place. That would be a bit much even for him, I would think.

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Dookiestix wrote:

Quote:
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Rove or one of his operatives was behind this. And if the documents WERE forged, and if it starts looking obvious from several other sources that they were, then WHY wouldn't the White House meticulously point this out from the beginning, thereby offering proof from their own hands that these documents were fake (which we just don't know yet)?

Better to keep a distance and let the damage take it's own meandering path, Karl Rove style.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!!

This has to be one of the best posts I've seen in quite a while!

The Dems start 'Operation Fortunate Son" at the time these documents are released; oops, now we find the documents are very possibly forged.

What to do? We've been caught dirty; quick, what's the plan?

Lets blame it on Rove!

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

Pretty pathetic. What are libs like you going to do when Bush clearly wins the election? Face it: The left-wing trickery of the Dems isn't going to work this time. The Dems tried it in 2000 with the last-minute release of the DUI; I think this was going to be the 2004 version, but Kerry is so far behind the DNC felt it had to do something now.

This is just another example of why the 2004 Democratic Party scares a majority of voters, and why we don't trust these guys with the keys to the government........

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I just watched the CBS/Rather refute to the allegations and I don't think the memo's are fake.

CBS staked their reputation(as sad as it is) on Rather's shoulders and that segment....still could have been smoke and mirrors but I doubt it.

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Bush AWOL documents fake?

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