36
   

Terror at Orlando Nightclub, 20 Feared Dead.

 
 
snood
 
  6  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You surely want to preserve the rights of Muslim-Americans when it comes to this list, but you couldn't care less if the person wants to buy a gun...a right guaranteed by our constitution.


My whole concern is in doing whatever might limit the likelihood of a madman acquiring a semiautomatic rifle with a high capacity magazine. Not the rights of Muslims and the list, or the rights of Americans to sensibly arm themselves.

And that's been explained to you a number of times as well.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:44 am
@snood,
Outlawing personal gun ownership altogether would limit the likelihood.

Executing anyone found to own a gun would limit the likelihood.

We have rights enshrined in our constitution because there will always be many who argue they should be stripped from us for some "benign" purpose.

Stop trying to go around the constitution.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:05 am
Most of the people I have been paying attention to don't want to disallow all guns, just the kind that are in vogue for mass killings. Which I endorse. I have owned a couple of rifles and some pistols in my time and I don't have regrets about it.

But it is beyond time to enact some serious gun control and stop the stupidness and callousness of daily shootings.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:11 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
Even better. So does your 'buyers prerogative' have any limits? You think there's a market for Surface-to-air missile systems, Claymore mines, LAWs rockets? Since semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines aren't excessive to you, can you give us the benefit of your incisive command of the subject matter and tell us where the line is between the right to bear arms and the right to arm nuts?

Are you asking about militiamen or regular civilians? Militiamen certainly have the right to keep Stinger missiles and anti-tank bazookas at home.

When it comes to regular civilians, Strict Scrutiny in the courts, in conjunction with requiring all police (including federal law enforcement) to comply with the same gun laws as civilians, should suffice.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:16 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Most of the people I have been paying attention to don't want to disallow all guns,

They always claim that, but they are lying. They always try to ban guns every chance they get.


edgarblythe wrote:
just the kind that are in vogue for mass killings. Which I endorse.

Unless someone can come up with a good reason for banning pistol grips on a rifle, any such ban is unconstitutional.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:19 am
@oralloy,
Agreed

It is an incremental strategy.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:23 am
@oralloy,
You can cry unconstitutional all you want. But gun regulation is legal. And there are enough people like myself, who add weight to the gun nuts' position on that, that it is highly unlikely they would even try to ban every gun.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:24 am
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/gallup-only-2-americans-name-gunsgun-control-among-nations-most-important

Quote:
As President Obama prepares to announce new executive actions on gun control Monday, a newly released Gallup Poll shows that "guns/gun control" ranked near the bottom of Americans' most pressing concerns in 2015.

In fact, guns/gun control ranked 19th out of 23 top problems facing the country last year.

According to Gallup, only one percent of respondents mentioned guns/gun control as a concern for most of the months in 2015, although mentions spiked to 7 percent in October and December following mass shootings in those months that dominated the news. (The overall average for the year was 2 percent.)



gotta wonder why nothing really changes with poll results like that.

I lie. I don't wonder at all. I think Americans have become so calloused that they don't care one way or the other when others die as a result of human violence. Nature still scares them though.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:33 am
@ehBeth,
What you and those who agree with you can't fathom is that most people don't see gun ownership as a major threat.

When they see the reporting on the massacre in Orlando they are not thinking, as you do, that we have to restrict gun ownership, they are thinking that we have to do something about these Muslim terrorists.
panzade
 
  6  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:36 am
Quote:
The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" (the Framers knew the difference - see the 10th Amendment), was to preserve the slave patrol militias in the southern states, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote. Founders Patrick Henry, George Mason, and James Madison were totally clear on that . . . and we all should be too.

We don't need to arm slave patrols anymore and we can't allow the unregulated trade in assault rifles that kill innocent schoolchildren.
Nobody I know wants to ban guns.
Stop with the histrionic straw man arguments concerning the 2nd amendment and help stop the slaughter.
George
 
  6  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:38 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
No, I believe most think "How can we keep guns out of the hands of people
like that?"

"People like that" are not always Muslim terrorists. Most of us are aware of that.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:40 am
@George,
The polling proves otherwise
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:43 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
When they see the reporting on the massacre in Orlando they are not thinking, as you do, that we have to restrict gun ownership


where did you hear what I thought about gun ownership when I heard about the shootings in Orlando?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:45 am
@ehBeth,
Presumed based on numerous prior posts.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:49 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
you mean assumed (and you haven't really been paying attention to my posts about gun ownership)
0 Replies
 
George
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:53 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
The polling proves otherwise
I'll take your word for it, but it's not my experience.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:56 am
@George,
googling guns + gallup is worth a minute or so every now and again
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
You can cry unconstitutional all you want.

Luckily the NRA is here to protect our Constitutional rights, on the federal level at least.


edgarblythe wrote:
But gun regulation is legal.

Not necessarily. A regulation only passes Constitutional muster if there is a good reason for it. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for banning pistol grips on a rifle.


edgarblythe wrote:
And there are enough people like myself, who add weight to the gun nuts' position on that, that it is highly unlikely they would even try to ban every gun.

It's bad enough when they pass unconstitutional bans on certain guns.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:13 pm
@ehBeth,
the gallup overview page re gun ownership/use polls

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

interesting stuff

self-reported household gun ownership going down / NRA support stable to increased
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:13 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" (the Framers knew the difference - see the 10th Amendment), was to preserve the slave patrol militias in the southern states, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote. Founders Patrick Henry, George Mason, and James Madison were totally clear on that . . . and we all should be too.

Thom Hartmann is a liar. Militias were not about slave patrols. They were about defending the country.


panzade wrote:
we can't allow the unregulated trade in assault rifles

Got a good reason for banning pistol grips on a rifle?

Then people have the right to have them.


panzade wrote:
Nobody I know wants to ban guns.
Stop with the histrionic straw man arguments concerning the 2nd amendment and help stop the slaughter.

No one is fooled. Everyone knows that the goal is to ban guns.
 

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