Terror at Orlando Nightclub, 20 Feared Dead.

@panzade,

Thanks, that helps clarify, though it did seem it wasn't a randomly chosen club.

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@revelette2,

ah, several layers to it..

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Hello, this is no act of terror - this is blatant discrimination and violence against gays. It's no coincidence that a gay club was chosen, it was a deliberate callous act against one group of people.

50 people dead, 54 wounded - the NRA can be proud of themselves!
After all it's people who kill people, not guns, right? I could vomit about all this ignorance!!

i just wonder if there are dots to be connected with the attack in France, or for that matter the attack in Tel Aviv. Meaning, the common denominators were soft targets of young non-Muslim people living a NON-Shiria lifestyle. There's an old American saying, "If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it might just be a duck."

P.S.: All the perps were Muslims. All the victims were "infidels."

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Well, for those struggling with a label, this could be categorized as both anti-gay violence and terrorism, since radical Muslim extremists believe gays should be put to death.

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Has it been mentioned yet that a man with an arsenal of weapons was detained in Santa Monica, not very long ago. He was headed for a LGBT event.

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http://abc13.com/news/suspect-w--arsenal-in-car-taken-into-custody-in-santa-monica/1382346/
Here is a link

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I read the FBI are calling it an act of terrorism. It is a national disgrace that these shootings happen so frequently. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

FBI investigating act of terrorism

This reaction is interesting, although not surprising.

I feel no disgrace over this shooting or the ones, among many, in Santa Barbara and Fort Hood. Why should any American feel disgraced by the murderous actions of religious fanatics? There is nothing at all inherently American in the motivation and actions of this murderer or the others. Quite the opposite.

Frankly, I'm surprised that it has taken this long for an Islamist to target homosexuals. We all know that even so-called moderate Islam is greatly intolerant of homosexuality and that the extremists are advocates of genocide when it comes to gays. Whether this is the only such targeted attack we will see, it is well in keeping with jihadi ideology and tactics. If such attacks were happening with some regularity and essentially tolerated or, worse, celebrated by Americans in general, then the charge of National Disgrace would be fitting. But of course they aren't.

Neither are any of the mass shootings that have taken place and which have no connection to Islamist terrorism. Americans are not unaffected by them and they certainly don't celebrate them.

Your charge of disgrace is, I'm certain, based on some belief that these shootings could be stopped if Americans really wanted them to, and yet almost all of them involve shooters who, not only, have obtained their weapons through currently legal means, but who would have been able to do so even if the most commonly advocated additional "controls" had been in place.

Do you, personally, feel disgraced or are you immunized from national guilt by your generally amorphous "anti-gun" positions?

It should go without saying that we all have great sympathy for the family friends and loved ones of the victims of this attack. If we didn't, that would be a national disgrace, but except for religious fanatics like those in the Westboro Baptist Church, this isn't, at all, the case in America.

Blaming ourselves and/or our nation for an attack like this is irrational and self-defeating.

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Quote:

There is nothing at all inherently American in the motivation and actions of this murderer or the others.

I guess a certain segment of the population has a baked-in dissonance about the connection between millions of guns, thousands of gun deaths, and the American gun culture.

The motivations and actions? No, maybe not. But the collecting and fetishizing of guns and the proliferation of military-style assault rifles and the insistence on constantly escalating the level of armament available to civilians is as American as apple pie.

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I don't think the perpetrators of mass violence need to be from any specific religion or ethnic background for the violence to be accurately described as terrorism.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Quote:
There is nothing at all inherently American in the motivation and actions of this murderer or the others.

I guess a certain segment of the population has a baked-in dissonance about the connection between millions of guns, thousands of gun deaths, and the American gun culture.

The motivations and actions? No, maybe not. But the collecting and fetishizing of guns and the proliferation of military-style assault rifles and the insistence on constantly escalating the level of armament available to civilians is as American as apple pie.

We can conclude that the guns used were purchased legally and also that this is an example of terrorism connected with radical Islam.

Had stricter gun controls been in place, I imagine they would deter motivated terrorists less than law abiding citizens.

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

snood wrote:

Quote:
There is nothing at all inherently American in the motivation and actions of this murderer or the others.

I guess a certain segment of the population has a baked-in dissonance about the connection between millions of guns, thousands of gun deaths, and the American gun culture.

The motivations and actions? No, maybe not. But the collecting and fetishizing of guns and the proliferation of military-style assault rifles and the insistence on constantly escalating the level of armament available to civilians is as American as apple pie.

We can conclude that the guns used were purchased legally and also that this is an example of terrorism connected with radical Islam.

Had stricter gun controls been in place, I imagine they would deter motivated terrorists less than law abiding citizens.

You bring up a whole other rightwing canard.

I didn't comment on the effectiveness of enforcing gun laws against terrorists vs against law abiding citizens, but you responded to me as if I did. I commented on the American love of guns.

One stupid myopic argument at a time, please.

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@snood,

McGentrix wants to make it about radical mulsim terrorists. But before I buy into that I'm going to wait to see if he wasent christian. After all one thing Muslim radicals and Christian radicals agree on is its all right to shoot gays. More guns mean more defense and less murders. I just received my N R A check so I have to spout this garbage.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Blaming ourselves and/or our nation for an attack like this is irrational and self-defeating.

I disagree. Stoking fear and hate is unacceptable, and yet that is an ongoing thing in this country. What is so different about this mass shooter targeting people because he hates them compared to others targeting those same people under the guise of religious liberty or the war against "political correctness"?
We now live in a country where "political correctness" is evil. Openly spewing hate is now embraced as American as apple pie and baseball.

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

snood wrote:

Quote:
There is nothing at all inherently American in the motivation and actions of this murderer or the others.

I guess a certain segment of the population has a baked-in dissonance about the connection between millions of guns, thousands of gun deaths, and the American gun culture.

The motivations and actions? No, maybe not. But the collecting and fetishizing of guns and the proliferation of military-style assault rifles and the insistence on constantly escalating the level of armament available to civilians is as American as apple pie.

We can conclude that the guns used were purchased legally and also that this is an example of terrorism connected with radical Islam.

Had stricter gun controls been in place, I imagine they would deter motivated terrorists less than law abiding citizens.

You bring up a whole other rightwing canard.

I didn't comment on the effectiveness of enforcing gun laws against terrorists vs against law abiding citizens, but you responded to me as if I did. I commented on the American love of guns.

One stupid myopic argument at a time, please.

You commented on "escalating the level of armament available to civilians" and I said that less availability would be more likely to deter law abiding citizens than people like this shooter. Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

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Perhaps radical Muslims hates gays as much as radical Christian extremist hates gays. I seem to remember reading from somewhere about IS telling their followers to take every opportunity to attack. Perhaps this radical extremist Muslim saw two men kissing and took the opportunity to attack. Obama said it was both a hate crime and a terrorist attack, it makes sense to me. Horrible as that is to say.

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@edgarblythe,

I didn't know that.

****.

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@edgarblythe,

I don't know if it is the same man, but I read this earlier:

Quote:

Omar Mateen called 911 just before Orlando club shooting, swore allegiance to head of Islamic State, multiple law enforcement officials say - NBC News

A hate crime does not exclude a terrorist act as well.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Here's an interesting tidbit...

Mateen, a 29-year-old American citizen born in New York, acted alone and very quickly when he opened fire with a weapon officials described as an assault rifle. Mateen had purchased a “long gun” and a handgun within a week of the Orlando attack, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said. The weapons were purchased legally, despite Mateen being investigated for possible terrorist ties several years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omar-mateen-identified-orlando-club-shooter_us_575d6f19e4b0ced23ca84a64???SDHSDHS

I mean, seriously - what's someone got to do to be refused the right to buy an assault rifle?

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Seriously, a disproportionate fraction of the terrorist attacks I see on the news, seem to involve Islamic fundamentalism - Paris, Belgium, several here in America. It seems like a problem. Why doesn't America and the West come up with a more effective plan for defeating them where they live, so that we won't have to deal with their efforts so often where we live? It looks like we're not winning.

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Wow, fight 'em over there, so we don't have to fight 'em over here. Why didn't anyone else think of that?

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Terror at Orlando Nightclub, 20 Feared Dead.

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