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Ivan! Jeanne! & Karl & Dennis The Menace & Katrina

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:24 pm
BBB wrote : " During Bush's entire term as president, he has cut the funds in every budget for maintaining and improving the levy and lock system in New Orleans".
while the chairman of lloyd's of london did not specifically refer to this - he's not about to cause a rucus - , he was quite clear in talking about "the risk premium" for NO - it doesn't sound quite as harsh. hbg
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:29 pm
Lash wrote:
nimh--

Where did Bush say there is no problem

Sorry, I was being elliptical. Paul McHale, deputy minister of Defence, seemed to be simply asserting, in that quote, that there was no problem: "There is sufficient capacity to return and maintain order', said McHale". Strikes me as a weird, denial-style response in the face of apparently currently escalating anarchy. And that bit - just denying there's a problem in the face of apparently escalating anarchy (why? more concerned about what the TV will report than about the actual situation on the ground? I never really got that habit) - that bit just seems a little all too familiar after 5 years of Bush, 2 years of Iraq. Hence me writing that McHale's comments were "just so, Bush".

I'm not jumping the bandwagon blaming Bush / the admin for all the chaos on the ground (not as of yet, anyway). I think such chaos is pretty much par for the course if you got a disaster that has a million people on the move, hundreds of thousands trapped in flooded areas with basic necessities running out, etc. What do you expect, its just gonna happen, awfully enough. But any semblance of a "me worry?" kind of response from the admin is gonna trigger some long-held resentments.

Lash wrote:
--and these people who have asked Bush for help--when/where did they speak to him?

Dunno. I'd suppose if local authority folks call on Bush to act even just on national TV or something, they should be able to expect he'll hear it, he's the President after all, his staff is watching TV too. Dont all have his number. But again, I'm not on the blame-Bush wagon (yet). Just suspicious of all too familiar patterns resurfacing again in his admin's response. Wait and see.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:32 pm
I just hope that reasonable people will sift assumption and innuendo from fact.

Thank you for answering.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:35 pm
Thanks for asking me - glad I was pushed to clarify.

BBB may have another point with the budget-cutting thing, but its unrelated. I dont really know myself, havent read up about it.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:36 pm
Re: Lash
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Lash wrote:
nimh--

Where did Bush say there is no problem--and these people who have asked Bush for help--when/where did they speak to him?


You keep setting yourself up.

During Bush's entire term as president, he has cut the funds in every budget for maintaining and improving the levy and lock system in New Orleans. This is well known. Where have you been?

BBB

Down on planet earth with two feet firmly planted in REALITY, which is obviously why you haven't seen me.

Shortly into his term, we suffered a catastrophic attack that sent Wall Street spinning. We went into Afghanistan, formulated a huge vital new department in response to this UNPRECEDENTED ATTACK--and those items PRE-IRAQ would have any reasonable president cutting what they considered non-emergent expenditures.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:37 pm
Lash wrote:
nimh--

Where did Bush say there is no problem--and these people who have asked Bush for help--when/where did they speak to him?


Editorial New York Times
Published: September 1, 2005


Waiting for a Leader

George W. Bush gave one of the worst speeches of his life yesterday, especially given the level of national distress and the need for words of consolation and wisdom. In what seems to be a ritual in this administration, the president appeared a day later than he was needed. He then read an address of a quality more appropriate for an Arbor Day celebration: a long laundry list of pounds of ice, generators and blankets delivered to the stricken Gulf Coast. He advised the public that anybody who wanted to help should send cash, grinned, and promised that everything would work out in the end.

We will, of course, endure, and the city of New Orleans must come back. But looking at the pictures on television yesterday of a place abandoned to the forces of flood, fire and looting, it was hard not to wonder exactly how that is going to come to pass. Right now, hundreds of thousands of American refugees need our national concern and care. Thousands of people still need to be rescued from imminent peril. Public health threats must be controlled in New Orleans and throughout southern Mississippi. Drivers must be given confidence that gasoline will be available, and profiteering must be brought under control at a moment when television has been showing long lines at some pumps and spot prices approaching $4 a gallon have been reported.

Sacrifices may be necessary to make sure that all these things happen in an orderly, efficient way. But this administration has never been one to counsel sacrifice. And nothing about the president's demeanor yesterday - which seemed casual to the point of carelessness - suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.
While our attention must now be on the Gulf Coast's most immediate needs, the nation will soon ask why New Orleans's levees remained so inadequate. Publications from the local newspaper to National Geographic have fulminated about the bad state of flood protection in this beloved city, which is below sea level. Why were developers permitted to destroy wetlands and barrier islands that could have held back the hurricane's surge? Why was Congress, before it wandered off to vacation, engaged in slashing the budget for correcting some of the gaping holes in the area's flood protection?
It would be some comfort to think that, as Mr. Bush cheerily announced, America "will be a stronger place" for enduring this crisis. Complacency will no longer suffice, especially if experts are right in warning that global warming may increase the intensity of future hurricanes. But since this administration won't acknowledge that global warming exists, the chances of leadership seem minimal.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 05:41 pm
Lash wrote:
I just hope that reasonable people will sift assumption and innuendo from fact.

Thank you for answering.


Don't hold your breath. Opinions are among the things with which everyone is equipped. Some are tighter than are others.
0 Replies
 
JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:11 pm
What a mess. But it would seem the wetlands on the Delta are restored.

Just about a month ago David and I were talking about going to the "Big Easy" for Mardi Gras.

Crying in my heart for those who perished and those who survived.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:47 pm
I can ill imagine how folks want to blame Bush for this one. Put that hate aside for something like this, please. Katrina took mercy on NO when she turned, believe that. Had she not made that little turn; we would have been contemplating how difficult it was to blow up that much of the levy... just to let some of the water out.Idea Those lucky few who were able to chop their way out of their roofs in time to avoid drowning; would have found themselves facing debris from 160 mph winds. The horror that is NO, today, is a damn sight better than it could have been... and frankly... better than it damn near was. The areas to the East took it harder (much harder).

My hat's off to the people in charge of the Astro-Dome... the utility crews who will no doubt work 18 hours a day to restore power, only to be booed for taking so long... the medical people who are working longer, only to be blamed for shortcomings that are inevitable. If the Tsunami didn't show you how impotent mankind is compared to Mother Nature, perhaps you don't want to learn. Google Pompeii. Google Cumbre Vieja. Katrina is a wicked reality... but a gentle reminder of what can and will happen on this rock again.

Instead of pointing fingers; cherish the heroics of the men and women who rise to the occasion. All the half empty glasses are as disturbing as they are depressing. A lot of people are dead and a lot more will die. Yes, poor people will take the brunt of the losses. No political party nor religious beliefs would or could change that simple fact of life.
So leave your politics at home for this one, OK?. :sad:
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 11:47 pm
Bill
Bill, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to blame Bush for the hurricane. His budget cuts during both of his terms to severly cut funding for the maintenance and improvement of the New Orleans levees and locks is what he is being blamed for making the devestation worse than it might have been.

If any president before Bush made similar budget cuts, then I would be just as pissed at him as I am at Bush for his policies.

BBB
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 11:50 pm
Exactly, BBB!

Bill
You also have a point and I started a thread just to thank those people who are working so very hard to help others in this disaster.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58670&highlight=
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 03:34 am
Re: Lash
Lash wrote:
Shortly into his term, we suffered a catastrophic attack that sent Wall Street spinning. We went into Afghanistan, formulated a huge vital new department in response to this UNPRECEDENTED ATTACK--and those items PRE-IRAQ would have any reasonable president cutting what they considered non-emergent expenditures.

And cutting taxes massively, of course, acutely depleting revenue. Dont forget that bit.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 06:27 am
Excellent post, Bill. Thank you.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 08:09 am
Oh no, now the Astrodome is full and buses from NOLA are being turned away:

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-50/1125668040324150.xml&storylist=national
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 08:27 am
That link didnt work for me.

From a(nother?) lengthy story on that site, this:

Quote:
Friday, September 02, 2005
Local leaders call relief efforts too little, late


There's good news:

Quote:
New Orleans on Thursday pulled back from an almost complete collapse of public order, a near anarchy that had supplanted receding floodwaters as the gravest threat to the city's still tenuous recovery.

Evidence that authorities were beginning to get a grip on gargantuan problems varied from the successful and orderly evacuation of Baptist Mercy Hospital to a sharp reduction in the menacing bands of idle refugees, many of them intent on looting that had haunted Uptown neighborhoods in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

With thousands of National Guard troops being mustered to join the Louisiana guardsmen already deployed to the hurricane-stricken city, one of the early signs of the beefed-up military presence was a Blackhawk helicopter touching down near the Riverwalk to deliver water to some 1,000 refugees still sheltered in the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center.


And bad news, with much of the local authorities' fury addressed at the federal government:

Quote:
[..] everywhere: the homeless, some wandering aimlessly, others massed at bridges and ferry landings waiting for boats and buses no longer in service, many of them drunk on looted liquor in a city without drinking water. [..]

"I'm supposed to be cleaning up after a storm and I have to have sheriff's deputies walking around on the roof with AK-47s and machine guns," said Jefferson Parish Emergency Operations Director Walter Maestri. Basic cleanup operations, such as clearing downed trees, were on hold, and relief agencies, including FEMA and some private groups, had either pulled out or threatened to do so because of the dangers to their workers, Maestri said. [..]

But comments from officialdom and commoners alike, seethed with the sense that New Orleans had yet to be accorded a response adequate to the crisis at hand.

Terry Ebbert, head of the city's emergency operations, contrasted what he deemed a lackluster response by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to the massive outpouring of humanitarian and military aid after this past winter's tsunami in southeast Asia.

Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard called the lack of federal response "a disgrace."

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was equally blunt. Federal and state officials need to stop having "goddamn press conferences" and get the relief effort rolling, he said in a late-afternoon radio interview, an angry flare-up out of character for the popular, generally easy-going former cable TV executive.

Appearing in a New York studio on NBC's "Today" show, former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial, now national president of the Urban League, called for "an effort of 9-11 proportions." "A great American city is fighting for its life," he said. [..]

That effort was being waged against long odds Thursday. National Guard spokesman Jack Harrison, in Arlington, Va., said the number of active-duty guard troops in Louisiana would rise to 20,000 overnight, about a quarter of them Louisiana guardsmen, but Gov. Kathleen Blanco estimated it would take at least 40,000 troops to quell the violence.

As troop transport vehicles rumbled through downtown streets, some soldiers appeared visibly unnerved by the chaos they witnessed around them. Scores of New Orleans police had simply gone AWOL and fled, according to a ranking NOPD officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. [..]

By day's end, the massive bus-lift to Houston had reduced the Superdome's population to a few thousand refugees, authorities said. But many now homeless people continue to wait on bridges and highway ramps. And while officials remained adamant about the need to get out of a flooded city without power, water, or much prospect of these services being restored for months to come, efforts to comply were frequently mired in miscommunication.

Beside himself after failing to get through to city and state officials, the chief of trauma surgery at Charity Hospital called a news conference on Thursday to beg for help. Charity was nearly out of food and power for its generators and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters prowling the hospital, Dr. Norman McSwain said.

Texas officials said they were concerned by unconfirmed reports that a group of prisoners under guard had somehow been mixed in with refugees in the bus convoy to Houston's Astrodome. [..]
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 08:53 am
Sorry about the link.

Quote:
Storm Victims Find Astrodome Full
By MATT CURRY 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
HOUSTON - Katrina refugees who had finally arrived by bus from the steamy Superdome were left in limbo for more than two hours after officials suddenly announced that the Astrodome was too full to accept them.

ADVERTISEMENT

Early Friday, after waiting on board and milling about the parking lot, the passengers were redirected to an adjacent exhibit hall, said Houston press secretary Patrick Trahan.

The change only added to the frustration of victims like Patricia Profit, who had relatives already inside the stadium.

"Before we left New Orleans, they said everybody will be in the Astrodome," said Profit as she stood outside one of the buses. "'Don't panic, don't worry, you'll still be with your family.' That's what they told us. Now we can't be with our family."

The daylong stream of buses was halted late Thursday, when the stadium population reached 11,325, less than half the 23,000 people that authorities had expected to put there.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/katrina_refugees_1

(Not sure if that one will work either.)
0 Replies
 
JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 11:37 am
Crying and crying that is all I can do. Holding New Orleans and the surrounding are in the light.

We the people need to take action now. We need to be responsible. We caused this. The government is us.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 01:09 pm
I was curious about something and tried to do a Google search but I am not very good at it. I couldn't find the "key words" that would help. The Army has two huge Airborne Divisions; the 82nd based in Fort Bragg NC and the 101st in Fort Campbell KY.
Airborne used to mean paratroopers, but when Johnboy was with the 101st in VN, Airborne meant Airmobile. We travelled by helicoptor on every mission. We had lots and lots of helicoptors.
I am wondering if either of those divisions is not deployed overseas? If they are at their home bases, why?
Thanks for any info.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 02:38 pm
On the Chicago news today, Mayor Daley was interviewed and said that he offered FEMA food, police, transportation and was told that all they needed was a truck. One truck. That's all they needed.

Is the goal to save these people or just leave as many as they can get away with there to die? Less black people and poor people to worry about.

A friend of mine joined FEMA only to leave in disgust at the glee that was shown within the organization when disasters struck. Oh happy day. We're gonna get paid.

Michael Brown should be baptized in the middle of Lake Pontchatrain. And left there.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 04:08 pm
Eoe
I hear ya, girl!
0 Replies
 
 

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