31
   

Why Obamacare is a Failure

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 04:06 pm
@Baldimo,
Your last paragraph is silly.
It's the republicans trying to repeal Obamacare.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 04:51 pm
@Baldimo,
So, how do you suggest the insurance companies offer coverage? Should I be able to deduct a certain amount of money because I won't ever need prostate surgery. Also, I think breast augmentation is a 'want' not a 'need' so I can deduct that, because I shouldn't be forced to pay for it. Also, should I check a box that includes coverage for rickets, tuberculous, or some rare form of cancer of the toenails? The insurance will only cover the conditions I checked, anything falling outside would be just too bad?

As it stands right now, I do pay for others prostate health because my policy doesn't have separate pay scales for men and women. My company also covers vasectomies, reverse vasectomies and viagra..........damn, your right Baldy, I'm getting screwed.

If I were you I wouldn't worry about compulsory 6 month doctor check-ups. The point is to offer access to people, not force people to see a doctor. Let me put it another way, If you break out in boils you won't be denied care for lack of insurance BUT if you don't break out in boils, the health police won't show up and cart off you kicking and screaming to be treated for boils.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 05:08 pm
@glitterbag,
Here's the rundown by Politifact on what would happen after the GOP repeal of ACA:
Quote:
Other groups have come up with similar estimates for the uninsured. This year, the Urban Institute and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation published a report projecting that 24 million additional people by 2021 would have lost coverage or be unable to find it. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a group that seeks to lower the federal deficit, projected that the number would be 23 million.

Meanwhile, a 2016 study by the Commonwealth Fund and the Rand Corp. calculated that even the most successful replacement scenario produced an increase in 15.6 million uninsured people, while the most pessimistic would lead to an additional 25.1 million uninsured Americans.


The Urban Institute study further estimated that 66 percent of those losing coverage would have a high school education or less.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 05:43 pm
Quote:
As a percentage of GDP, the UK spent less on healthcare than USA, Japan, France and Germany and a similar percentage to Canada. The USA spent the most on healthcare (out of the G7) as a percentage of GDP at 16.6%.


http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-compare-internationally/

The one that pays the most is the only one that doesn't have UHC. It's easy to see which systems are the most efficient.

I'm not happy with our position btw. The Tories have slashed (in real terms when you weigh in demographics that include an aging population,) NHS funding. The NHS always fares considerably better under a Labour government.)
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 06:43 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
What's the alternative?


Im sure baldys answer will be let them die.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 11:13 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
So, how do you suggest the insurance companies offer coverage? Should I be able to deduct a certain amount of money because I won't ever need prostate surgery.

If you have a separate policy from your husband then why not, if you share a policy that is a different story. If you are single then you shouldn't be required to carry coverage for any "man issues", you are not even part of that insurance pool, middle aged men and older, plus you don't have a prostate.

Quote:
Also, I think breast augmentation is a 'want' not a 'need' so I can deduct that, because I shouldn't be forced to pay for it.

Most insurance plans do not cover breast augmentation as it is an elective surgery, it is different than breast reconstruction after a woman has breast cancer. Due to most insurances not covering elective breast work, therefor bypassing cost controls, the cost of that work has dropped considerably in the last couple of decades. It used to cost almost 20k to get work done and now it costs less than 10k. Women who need the surgery for reconstructive purposes benefit from this cost decrease as well as the improvement in the procedures.

Quote:
Also, should I check a box that includes coverage for rickets, tuberculous, or some rare form of cancer of the toenails? The insurance will only cover the conditions I checked, anything falling outside would be just too bad?

This is where you argument falls apart due to being ridiculous and stupid, it's pointless extremism. Do you really want to compare BC to the above? Sure you do, it's the only way to try and prove a silly point.

Quote:
As it stands right now, I do pay for others prostate health because my policy doesn't have separate pay scales for men and women. My company also covers vasectomies, reverse vasectomies and viagra..........damn, your right Baldy, I'm getting screwed.

You are right, as a woman with no prostate, you are getting screwed. If insurance is run by pools, why would you be in that pool? After all men and women have different health issues, and in fact women would see their health insurance get a little cheaper as they age and men would more than likely see an increase due to their health problems as they age. I know my fiance had a hysterectomy a couple of years ago and no longer has the need for OB/GYN appointments as she no longer has the parts that require check-ups, aka pap smears. Why should she pay for ob/gyn services is she no longer requires them, her insurance would be cheaper for her and women in her position.

Quote:
If I were you I wouldn't worry about compulsory 6 month doctor check-ups. The point is to offer access to people, not force people to see a doctor. Let me put it another way, If you break out in boils you won't be denied care for lack of insurance BUT if you don't break out in boils, the health police won't show up and cart off you kicking and screaming to be treated for boils.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If Hillary had won, I wouldn't put it past the DNC to try for it, after all, they seem to know what is best for me and mine. If I won't by insurance, they will make me, no one thought that would happen in the US, but the Dems did it.
glitterbag
 
  6  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 02:06 pm
@Baldimo,
You apparently know next to zilch about women's health. Your girlfriend won't bear any more children, and likely won't need a Pap smear (depending on what remained following surgery) but there are other conditions she might need help with that make regular visits to a gyn prudent.

I was also happy to hear that as women age they need less health care, did you write that with a straight face? I hate to burst your bubble, and frankly I hope you and your girlfriend age without health issues, but you truly are woefully uneducated about risks to your health. God bless baldy, you can roll the dice if you like, it's a free country.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 02:26 pm
@glitterbag,
Makes you wonder where some people get their info from.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 02:53 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
You apparently know next to zilch about women's health. Your girlfriend won't bear any more children, and likely won't need a Pap smear (depending on what remained following surgery) but there are other conditions she might need help with that make regular visits to a gyn prudent.

If that is the case, we would elect to carry coverage for that, it doesn't mean I have to carry that type of coverage for me and my sons prior to our marriage.

Quote:
I was also happy to hear that as women age they need less health care, did you write that with a straight face?

I sure did, depending on the woman and as mentioned what is left after a surgery, it would make a difference. I've known many more men in my family who had health problems then the women in my family. This is the reason why there should be a better selection of plans with more options. Not everyone is the same, so why should health insurance be the same?

Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble, and frankly I hope you and your girlfriend age without health issues, but you truly are woefully uneducated about risks to your health.

You're not bursting anything and I'm fully aware and educated of my health risks, much more so then you are. Do you not think I have parents who are about your age, both my folks will be 70 this year, I'll be 44.

Quote:
God bless baldy, you can roll the dice if you like, it's a free country.

Is it a free country? Am I really allowed to "roll the dice"? It doesn't appear that I'm free to choose what I want when it comes to my healthcare coverage. In fact according to you and others of your ilk, I'm suppose to pay for things I will never in a million years use. It seems the govt knows what's better for me than I do. You can't mandate something and then try and pass it off as living in a free country.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 10:01 am
Women outlive men by five to six years.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  6  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 11:42 pm
@Baldimo,
I have seldom talked to anyone with such a limited view on health care. We already have too high a count of infant mortality because of poor pre-natal care. Sadly, too many women still die in childbirth or from complications shortly there after. But since your sons can only be the fathers of babies (assuming that fits their lifestyle) all you are risking is the loss of daughter-in-laws and potential grand children. It not like you have daughters, or anything equally useless. You sound like an interesting soul.......I guess.

If your girlfriend is your age or younger, that's young for that type of surgery. I hope for the best for her. I will tell you that my friends whose moms underwent those procedures in their 30's and 40's had problems with incontenence by the time they were in their 60's or 70's. Of course not all of them, but too often the bladder drops due to the absence of the uterus and if it gets serious enough sometimes surgery is required. There are such things as prolapse, which of course you know because you are an expert on female reproductive equipment.

I sincerely hope your girlfriend doesn't navigate her health care by your hairbrained understanding. It benefits all of us if you two stay healthy. No one benefits (especially you) if you become so ill you need disability.

Well, that's about all I care to share, and although it's been really great to listen to your 'truths', I'm going to beg off. Frankly, it saddens me when I encounter people like you. I don't think you're smart enough to get out of your own way. Smart might not be the best word, maybe 'too ridgedly devoted to a notion' of absolute right. Good luck to you Baldy, and good luck for the health of any potential grandchildren.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 10:06 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
I have seldom talked to anyone with such a limited view on health care. We already have too high a count of infant mortality because of poor pre-natal care. Sadly, too many women still die in childbirth or from complications shortly there after. But since your sons can only be the fathers of babies (assuming that fits their lifestyle) all you are risking is the loss of daughter-in-laws and potential grand children. It not like you have daughters, or anything equally useless. You sound like an interesting soul.......I guess.

Most of this is hogwash. You are confusing health care with health insurance. If I had daughters then I would of course want to carry insurance that covers women issues, just like I would when I get married again in a few months. I'm willing to pay for what me and mine will/might use.

Quote:
If your girlfriend is your age or younger, that's young for that type of surgery. I hope for the best for her. I will tell you that my friends whose moms underwent those procedures in their 30's and 40's had problems with incontenence by the time they were in their 60's or 70's. Of course not all of them, but too often the bladder drops due to the absence of the uterus and if it gets serious enough sometimes surgery is required. There are such things as prolapse, which of course you know because you are an expert on female reproductive equipment.

Nope, not an expert but aware of some of the issues. Of course you assume most women are aware of these things, and I'm willing to bet it's an awareness by association thing. I went through the same thing with my ex-wife several years ago when she had the same procedure. BTW, I do stand somewhat corrected, my fiance has an ovary left, they did that to prevent early menopause. I won't mention what the Dr. recommended to help with the bladder issue...

Quote:
I sincerely hope your girlfriend doesn't navigate her health care by your hairbrained understanding. It benefits all of us if you two stay healthy. No one benefits (especially you) if you become so ill you need disability.

Once again you want to confuse my views on health insurance with health care. I don't know all there is about health care, but I know I want choice and selection in my insurance coverage, not mandated coverage for things I won't use.

Quote:
Well, that's about all I care to share, and although it's been really great to listen to your 'truths', I'm going to beg off. Frankly, it saddens me when I encounter people like you. I don't think you're smart enough to get out of your own way. Smart might not be the best word, maybe 'too ridgedly devoted to a notion' of absolute right. Good luck to you Baldy, and good luck for the health of any potential grandchildren.

Your fake feelings don't really mean much to me. You can't have an honest conversation about health insurance without playing some pity game with my loved ones, it's ******* pathetic.


farmerman
 
  6  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 10:18 am
@Baldimo,
trouble is, the GOP has NO idea what it wants in either. They are wedded to "repeal Obqmcare". I think they missed the entire boat by not saying
"Obamacare has got some good things but a lot of dumb ones, were gonna fix it "

NOOOO, politics is bloodsport so **** em.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 11:03 am
@farmerman,
They've been preaching "repeal and replace" for how long? Now that they have all the powers to repeal and replace, they're stuck in their own BS>.
What's their next move - on what issue?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/us/politics/affordable-care-act-health-congressional-budget-office.html?_r=0
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 11:48 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
trouble is, the GOP has NO idea what it wants in either. They are wedded to "repeal Obqmcare". I think they missed the entire boat by not saying
"Obamacare has got some good things but a lot of dumb ones, were gonna fix it "

NOOOO, politics is bloodsport so **** em.

I think the problem is the stance that the govt has to do a lot with health insurance in the first place. The only thing the GOP is doing now is taking one POS and replacing it with another POS.

There are indeed area's we can all agree but they should be done on their own instead of some big piece of legislation. I think the easy ones for most are a repeal of the mandated coverage and "minimum" coverage allowed. Pre-existing conditions, lifetime max's and maybe the chilidren until age 26.

I would love to see a "priceline" type style website created. You dictate who you need to cover, general coverage you would like to have and then you get choices to pick from. I know this was already attempted but they didn't permit real choice.
cicerone imposter
 
  5  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:08 pm
@Baldimo,
Government should be involved in health care. The health of the populace is important to our country. It limits the spread of disease and other illnesses. The good health of our children is important for the future of this country.

When we were children growing up in Sacramento, our school fed us graham cracker and a small carton of milk every morning. They understood how important nourishment was for our education.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Government should be involved in health care. The health of the populace is important to our country. It limits the spread of disease and other illnesses. The good health of our children is important for the future of this country.


Govt should have a minimal roll in healthcare but once again healthcare is different than health insurance.
Once you allow a mandate, where does it stop? I raised the question of govt mandated Dr. visits and how long it was until they were a reality. People laughed but you have said so yourself, health of the populace is important and of concern to the govt. They can mandate you carry insurance what's to stop them from mandating you use it as well?
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:33 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Your fake feelings don't really mean much to me. You can't have an honest conversation about health insurance without playing some pity game with my loved ones, it's ******* pathetic.


It really is.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:53 pm
@Baldimo,
False. We seniors have Senior Advantage. The premium is deducted from our social security benefit. Our doctor visit now cost $30, a real bargain.
When I had kidney failure and spent time in the hospital, my cost was about $100 per day rather than the thousands for all the doctors, nurses, techs and equipment brought to my room including X-ray and sonar.
My case is unique, because I used to be on dialyses, but no longer require it. Even had my dialysis tube removed from my gut.
glitterbag
 
  5  
Reply Fri 24 Mar, 2017 12:54 pm
@McGentrix,
You two belong together, charter members of the buffoon brigade. A healthy population is a productive population. Living in a healthy productive population actually benefits both of you.



 

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