31
   

Why Obamacare is a Failure

 
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2017 09:19 pm
@Kolyo,
What was the maximum out of pocket for a silver plan vs a gold plan?


I just glanced at healthcare.gov, and it seemed that the maximum out of pocket ranged from $3500 to about $6500.

If you have a disaster, the extra $3,000 out of pocket isn't going to bankrupt you. If it came to that, you could pay them back at $50 or $100 a month.

I guess it's too late now, but really, don't over insure yourself with a gold plan that is really only marginally better than silver, unless you have some specific health issue, or let's say a particular doctor you just have to have.

You could have saved a couple hundred dollars a month at least, and that would have nearly covered the additional out of pocket expense for a catastrophy that was unlikely to happen.

BTW, just because you can afford the premiums doesn't mean you need to put yourself in the position of paying that much. Sounds like you're just paying out that extra maximum out of pocket, month after painful month, at a guaranteed loss of that money, if God forbid you don't have a disaster. In reality, you are paying like you had a disaster already.

maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:04 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

What was the maximum out of pocket for a silver plan vs a gold plan?


I just glanced at healthcare.gov, and it seemed that the maximum out of pocket ranged from $3500 to about $6500.

If you have a disaster, the extra $3,000 out of pocket isn't going to bankrupt you. If it came to that, you could pay them back at $50 or $100 a month.

I guess it's too late now, but really, don't over insure yourself with a gold plan that is really only marginally better than silver, unless you have some specific health issue, or let's say a particular doctor you just have to have.

You could have saved a couple hundred dollars a month at least, and that would have nearly covered the additional out of pocket expense for a catastrophy that was unlikely to happen.

BTW, just because you can afford the premiums doesn't mean you need to put yourself in the position of paying that much. Sounds like you're just paying out that extra maximum out of pocket, month after painful month, at a guaranteed loss of that money, if God forbid you don't have a disaster. In reality, you are paying like you had a disaster already.


This is why we need a national healthcare system. People are buying plans that they don't need because it's almost impossible to estimate risk on yourself.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:24 am
@maporsche,
I agree with with you. Maybe not for all the same reasons, but I do agree.

Re risk assessment, well, I don't think many people go to either extreme of thinking they will be struck down any moment, or that they are immortal. However, you do know if your health is generally good or bad, or if in general you go, or need to see a health care provider once, or 10 times a year. You don't need to be an actuary to understand that.



0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:25 am
@maporsche,
I agree with with you re a national HC system. Maybe not for all the same reasons, but I do agree.

Re risk assessment, well, I don't think many people go to either extreme of thinking they will be struck down any moment, or that they are immortal. However, you do know if your health is generally good or bad, or if in general you go, or need to see a health care provider once, or 10 times a year. You don't need to be an actuary to understand that.



0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 11:48 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
This is why we need a national healthcare system. People are buying plans that they don't need because it's almost impossible to estimate risk on yourself.

You mean like the ACA mandated 10 overages that were required for everyone? Making you pay for something you didn't need?
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 11:59 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
This is why we need a national healthcare system. People are buying plans that they don't need because it's almost impossible to estimate risk on yourself.

You mean like the ACA mandated 10 overages that were required for everyone? Making you pay for something you didn't need?


These 10 things?

1. Ambulatory Patient Services
This is the most common form of health care, often called outpatient care. You walk into a doctor's office, get treated and then walk out. Nearly all health insurance plans already provide this coverage. Details about the plans' networks and access to doctors will vary, but the law says the networks' size must be "sufficient."

2. Prescription Drugs
Many plans offer drug coverage only as an option at extra cost. But under the law, all individual and small-group plans will cover at least one drug in every category and class in the U.S. Pharmacopeia, the official publication of approved medications in this country. Drug costs will also be counted toward out-of-pocket caps on medical expenses.

3. Emergency Care
You go to a hospital emergency room with a sudden and serious condition, such as the symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. The emergency visit is already covered under most plans. But under the reform law, emergency room visits do not require preauthorization, and you cannot be charged extra for an out-of-network visit.

4. Mental Health Services
Many plans don't cover mental or behavioral health services, but that will change under the law. Patients may be billed around $40 per session. In some states, though, coverage may be limited to a set number of therapy visits per year.

5. Hospitalization
Under the law, your insurer must cover your hospitalization, though you may have to pay 20 percent of the bill or more if you haven't reached your out-of-pocket limit. Some hospitals charge $2,000 a day for room and board alone, and $20,000 with medical services, so those bills can soar. This year, medical costs will help bankrupt 650,000 American households — including many who thought they had decent insurance until diagnosed with a serious illness.

6. Rehabilitative and Habilitative Services
If you are injured or become ill, many plans today cover rehabilitation therapies to relieve pain and help you regain your ability to speak, walk or work. The plans often cover medical equipment, too, including canes, knee braces, walkers and wheelchairs. Few plans, however, address the reform law's essential requirement for "habilitative" services, which are therapies to help overcome long-term disabilities, such as those that accompany a disease like multiple sclerosis.

7. Preventive and Wellness Services
Many experts believe this benefit could help rein in the nation's rising medical costs. The idea is to get people to see doctors and make healthier choices before they get sick and run up medical bills. For example, you may be allowed a free "wellness visit" annually with your doctor to discuss your health. Beyond that, the law instructs insurers to provide all of the 50 preventive services recommended by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force at no extra cost.

8. Laboratory Services
While the law codifies the full set of preventive screening tests — including prostate exams and Pap smears — that individual and small-group insurers must cover, you can still be billed for "diagnostic" tests that doctors order when you have symptoms of disease. Costs can range from $20 for a lab test to 30 percent of a magnetic resonance imaging scan (MRI).

9. Pediatric Care
Under the law, children under age 19 will be able to get their teeth cleaned twice a year, as well as receive X-rays, fillings and medically necessary orthodontia. In addition, children under age 19 will be entitled to an eye exam and one pair of glasses or set of contact lenses a year. Relatively few health plans cover children's dental or vision services today.

10. Maternity and Newborn Care
The law classifies prenatal care as a preventive service that must be provided at no extra cost. And it requires insurers to cover childbirth as well as the newborn infant's care. These maternity benefits are a welcome breakthrough for young people, as two-thirds of individual plans have traditionally excluded this type of coverage.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 12:56 pm
@maporsche,
Thanks for providing that very important list. I'm covered under senior advantage, and have been blessed with that coverage that took care of most of my medical bills from kidney failure. Also lucky that we're members of Kaiser in Santa Clara, and the hospital is one block from where we live. Most of the doctors and techs graduated from Stanford and UCSF.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:26 pm
@maporsche,
Yep. Those are them. I should be able to pick and choose certain types of coverage based on what I need. While a lot of those were already part of the plans I have had over the years, mandating them didn't make my insurance cheaper or better.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:37 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Yep. Those are them. I should be able to pick and choose certain types of coverage based on what I need. While a lot of those were already part of the plans I have had over the years, mandating them didn't make my insurance cheaper or better.


Yeah, sorry but I see these 10 items as critical minimum requirements of any real type of healthcare insurance.

Also, this has nothing to do with the individual buyer purchasing more insurance than they need.

It's like the guy driving a 1993 Geo Metro worth $650 buying full coverage automobile insurance to the tune of $150/month.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:51 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:


It's like the guy driving a 1993 Geo Metro worth $650 buying full coverage automobile insurance to the tune of $150/month.


Or like someone who owns an insures a car, but needs to occassionally rent one, and pays the car rental place for that extra insurance, not realizing it's already covered on their own plan.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:38 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Yeah, sorry but I see these 10 items as critical minimum requirements of any real type of healthcare insurance.

Of course you do, you supported the ACA to the core. Why should I have to carry and pay for a coverage I have no hope of using?
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:40 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
Or like someone who owns an insures a car, but needs to occassionally rent one, and pays the car rental place for that extra insurance, not realizing it's already covered on their own plan.

Except not every car insurance plan has that sort of coverage. Auto insurance is setup so you only pick what you want to use or think you are going to use. You aren't forced by the federal govt to have a min of coverage. Your analogy doesn't hold water.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:42 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Yeah, sorry but I see these 10 items as critical minimum requirements of any real type of healthcare insurance.

Of course you do, you supported the ACA to the core. Why should I have to carry and pay for a coverage I have no hope of using?


Which coverage would you not be using or may not be needing in the future? I'm guessing your a guy, so maybe you're not too worried about maternity coverage, but what about your wife? Or are you one of those guys that think that only women should pay the costs of repopulating the country?
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:06 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Which coverage would you not be using or may not be needing in the future? I'm guessing your a guy, so maybe you're not too worried about maternity coverage, but what about your wife?

Birth control and maternity coverage is the big one. My fiance, has her own coverage and wouldn't need it either. I've had a vasectomy done after both my sons were born and she had a cancer scare a couple of years ago and had a hysterectomy. So no, neither one of us has any use what-so-ever for BC or maternity coverage. We are both in our early 40's and have no need for it.

Quote:
Or are you one of those guys that think that only women should pay the costs of repopulating the country?

Trying to label me as a sexist? The last desperate act of someone with no point.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Or like someone who owns an insures a car, but needs to occassionally rent one, and pays the car rental place for that extra insurance, not realizing it's already covered on their own plan.

Except not every car insurance plan has that sort of coverage. Auto insurance is setup so you only pick what you want to use or think you are going to use. You aren't forced by the federal govt to have a min of coverage. Your analogy doesn't hold water.


The point is people need to look at their insurance policy to see if they already have that coverage.

Honestly? That's such a common sense thing I didn't think I needed to mention it.

My personal belief is many people are just making picking an appropriate policy much more complicated than it needs to be.

Insurance companies are loving it that so many people, when confronted with the more than 1 or 2 choices given by an employer, are loosing touch with reality and spending too much money on, apparantly things like "but what if" when the cost of the extra premium is just not worth it.

I'm not saying for instance, this is Koylo's case, as he hasn't come back to answer, but let's just play for a moment it is. Instead of Koylo, let's just say Joe Blow.

Joe Blow who has a good job, but not much money in the bank yet, is fearful of a health disaster, and also fearful a sum like an extra $3000 is going to bankrupt him. So is willing, because the option was thrown out there, to spend (let's just say), $200 extra in premiums a month ($2400) a year, guranteeing their pockets will be empty of that much a year, effectively, if this disaster strikes, saving $600.

Joe may have been better off getting a cheaper plan that gives the same quality of care, and put an extra hundred or two aside each month for a year or two, having that cushion right there and ready for when some catastrophic health crisis occurs.

It just doesn't seem that complicated to me.



0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:42 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Which coverage would you not be using or may not be needing in the future? I'm guessing your a guy, so maybe you're not too worried about maternity coverage, but what about your wife?

Birth control and maternity coverage is the big one. My fiance, has her own coverage and wouldn't need it either. I've had a vasectomy done after both my sons were born and she had a cancer scare a couple of years ago and had a hysterectomy. So no, neither one of us has any use what-so-ever for BC or maternity coverage. We are both in our early 40's and have no need for it.


I have no children (and likely won't) and have no need for my healthcare coverage to cover children.

I don't smoke and never will and I have to pay the costs of people who do smoke.

I'm not morbidly obese and never will be and won't gastric bypass surgery.

I'm not a woman and won't need to pay for a hysterectomy or ovarian surgery.

I don't have an appendix and I won't need to pay for an appendectomy.

You don't see me bitching about my costs paying for any of this. This is how insurance works. The costs and coverage are spread across a population and we all pay for something we don't need in some way.

You just want a reason to bitch so you're grasping at whatever you can.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Jan, 2017 04:17 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
I have no children (and likely won't) and have no need for my healthcare coverage to cover children.

You should have kids, they are wonderful creatures that teach you a lot about yourself and the world.

Quote:
I don't smoke and never will and I have to pay the costs of people who do smoke.

I'm sorry, do they carry a special "cancer coverage" that you can opt into our out of?

Quote:
I'm not morbidly obese and never will be and won't gastric bypass surgery.

Is there a such thing as "obese coverage"?

Quote:
I'm not a woman and won't need to pay for a hysterectomy or ovarian surgery.

Good for you.

Quote:
I don't have an appendix and I won't need to pay for an appendectomy.

Someone already covered that for you, unless you were born without one...

Quote:
You don't see me bitching about my costs paying for any of this. This is how insurance works. The costs and coverage are spread across a population and we all pay for something we don't need in some way.

This is not how insurance works. You pay into a risk pool in the event you won't have to use it. If you are not part of a risk pool, then you shouldn't have to pay into it. That is how insurance works, it doesn't get to be a catch all for anything and everything YOU think should be covered. People should have a choice and with the ACA, there is no choice but to have insurance or pay a fee, I mean a fine, I mean a fee for not having insurance. Once again this is not how insurance works.

Look at how car insurance works. If you are 43 like I am with an excellent driving record, you pay less for insurance. You don't pay into the "young driver" risk pool and have higher insurance rates just because kids drive.

Quote:
You just want a reason to bitch so you're grasping at whatever you can.

It appears that way, but it seems I've been constant in this belief since the ACA was first enacted. I shouldn't have to par for coverage I will never use, that isn't the purpose of insurance.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2017 07:06 pm
The main thing is that Trumpcare will never happen. It's just a matter of how much damage they have time to do to Obamacare before the Democrats rear their heads in 2018.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2017 07:43 pm
I fell, and thought maybe that could be a tsi.

I called my friend. We went to the local place, where I was by a wall sign told me to stay there, and she went to the desk, saying I might have had a stroke.

Thus followed several thousand dollars.

Cutting to the chase, it turned about my taking lisinopril.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2017 07:49 pm
@jcboy,
jcboy wrote:

The main thing is that Trumpcare will never happen. It's just a matter of how much damage they have time to do to Obamacare before the Democrats rear their heads in 2018.


One good change is removing the mandatory requirement to have insurance. I know normal family payers don't care but it's totally criminal to force pay medical insurance or face fines and punishment for not having it. Without an alternative option.

The US land of the free except you are forced to have medical insurance.

I've heard nightmare stories about Obamacare. A simple trip to the hospital turns into a run around without ever getting medical attention. Obamacare solved nothing.
 

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