Illegal Immigration is a crime!

I appreciate your patience Bal and your earnest search for the truth. I believe hospitals may be going out of business for reasons having to do with the fact that 35 million Americans don't have or can't afford health insurance. And yet many hospitals are founded by charter to help even those that can't pay. I have yet to see any evidence that illegal immigrants are bankrupting our nation. As far as your thread title...I agree. All nations have to watch their borders for illegal entry.

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Just for the record, I don't have a problem with the thesis in general, it's simply the rhetoric. There are no easy solutions or quick fixes.

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Quote:

Can't any of you comment on illegal immigration? There is a difference you know and I support legal immigration...

Sure. Americans have always been law breakers. It is part of our desire for liberty I guess. Breaking laws for the greater good is as American as anything you can Imagine.

We started with the Boston Tea Party. American Patriots protesting what they saw as an unfair law with vandalism.

Hundreds of Americans participated in the Underground Railroad which led thousands of slaves to freedom. This was directly against the law.

During prohibition, millions of Americans refused to give up the drinks they enjoyed in spite of the fact it was an illegal pleasure. Thanks to them, we can enjoy a beer today.

Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus. Hundreds of black americans violated laws enforcing segregation. These brave illegal acts are mark a seminal point in American History.

And there are more....

People breaking laws for a good purpose-- to work hard, gain education and give a better life for their families.

How can you get more American than that.

(but then, I have always been an outlaw Wink

)

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Baldimo wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Baldino wrote:
What should be done to stem the tide of illegal aliens? I think we should place the National Guard of the respective states on the border to help the border patrol.

I think it would be a better idea to legalize all immigration. This way, there will be no more illegal immigration, and the national guard can stay home.

<on to reading the rest of the thread>

I say we make murder legal so that it isn't illegal any longer, that should solve that problem.

The difference is that murder is illegal because it harms, while illegal immigration is harmful because it's illegal. That's why legalizing murder creates more problems than it solves, while legalizing immigration solves more problems than it creates. Your argument would be more conclusive if you believed that all immigration is harmful, just like all murder is. But if this is what you believe, I haven't seen you make the case yet. (Possibly my fault.)

As I understand your position, you welcome the legal immigrants, but believe that the illegal immigrants would cause more trouble than they're worth if they were legalized. Just what is it you hold against them -- other than their being illegal?

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Baldimo wrote:

Some caller said that his wife translates for some of the people and was upset that they were getting a conservative slant on their information. The reason I was shocked was because you don't hear anyone being upset that Mexicans in the southwest get a liberal slant in the information that they receive. Could this be some hypocrisy?

I think the difference is that Cubans, who are always legal immigrants as long as they can get a toe on hot sand, can vote and Mexicans, in the generalized way we are speaking, cannot.

Quote:

Can't any of you comment on illegal immigration? There is a difference you know and I support legal immigration, which is what my grandfather did when he came here. I am only demanding that everyone do as he did. He was better off because of it.

I think the simple reason that people enter illegally do it because it costs A LOT of money to enter legally. When your grandfather came immigration was quite open and, someone correct me if I'm mistaken, didn't cost much. By and large I think that most immigrants to this country right now are trying to do what your grandfather did.

Every place I've ever lived until presently had a very substantial immigrant population for varying areas. In my experience, it was always a boon for the city. Immigration creates the growth that many cities need.

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If the influx of these thousands of illegal immigrants crossing into California and Arizona and Texas did create a larger tax base, it most likely wouldn't be seen as destructive. Since they'd need forged social security numbers to work legally, they don't receive regular paychecks and therefore don't pay taxes. Illegal immigration is not seen as a boon to the taxpayers in the states that border Mexico.

Many of these undocumented aliens do, however, receive healthcare and welfare benefits and have strained the hospital resources to the max. The L.A. County Hospital System went bankrupt a few years ago and is headed in that direction once more (having spent $350 million last year caring for illegal immigrants.). More than five emergency rooms have closed, not having the money to pay their employees. Their patient base is illegal immigrants (uninsured who use the hsopitals as their primary care source) and more hospitals are slated to close soon. U.S. law prevents turning away any person seeking healthcare, regardless of their immigration status.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/08/21/state2003EDT0088.DTL&type=health

The fact that they refer to these immigrants as "the uninsured" is merely being PC. This crisis is due to the thousands of illegals crossing over daily. The crisis facing Arizona and Texas is about the same.

http://www.fairus.org/news/NewsPrint.cfm?ID=2379&c=55

Personally, I think the answer may lie in Mr. Bush's New Temporary Work Program, although I know it has drawn criticism from both sides. I think, along with others here, that most of the Mexican illegals are fleeing economic hardships. Coming across with a work permit and then returning home isn't going to be seen as satisfactory I don't think. They want to live here and personally, I wish we could find a way to let them all in.

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A thoughtful post JW

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Here's a new twist to this thread.
Europe did unite.
Why don't american and mexican governments get together and declare Mexico a state # 51? Or may be it will form 3-4 states?

What issues will be soved instantly?
1) Immigration became legal at once. Now it's just a migration
2) Thousands of jobs are added for foremly unemployed americans with higher qualifications
3) Tens of thousands of jobs created for local population
4) American manufacturers can expand their horizons by marketing to mexican population

What do you think?

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No way.

We fought to get Texas from the evil Mexicans, no way are we gonna give it back!

Cycloptichorn

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Making Mexico state #51 would really undermine both their independence, and their history.

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Miriam May wrote:

Here's a new twist to this thread.
Europe did unite.
Why don't american and mexican governments get together and declare Mexico a state # 51? Or may be it will form 3-4 states?

What issues will be soved instantly?
1) Immigration became legal at once. Now it's just a migration
2) Thousands of jobs are added for foremly unemployed americans with higher qualifications
3) Tens of thousands of jobs created for local population
4) American manufacturers can expand their horizons by marketing to mexican population

What do you think?

You are only partially right. Europe has united but only if they fit a certain mold. They have to be economically sound as well as with their employment. There are several other criteria that must be met in order to join the EU. Turkey doesn't meet this standard and that is why they won't be allowed in to the EU just yet.

We would have the same issue with Mexico becoming state #51. There is way too much unemployment and there isn't enough of a tax base in Mexico to cover the additions of people that are below the poverty of even Mexico. It would cost way too much for it to happen, plus Mexico doesn't want to be part of the US. They are their own country and wouldn't want to step down to become a state.

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That's false, Baldimo . . . Turkey fails to qualify because of their human rights record, and the quality of their policing and their judiciary. They long ago passed the economic bar.

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OK,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

No way.
We fought to get Texas from the evil Mexicans, no way are we gonna give it back!
Cycloptichorn

Nah, what I meant is - to give away all of the 50 states to Mexico plus territories. Laughing

drÃ²m_et_rÃªve wrote:

Making Mexico state #51 would really undermine both their independence, and their history.

Does this mean that every single member of the European Union feels hurt by being accepted?

[quote="Baldimo]
plus Mexico doesn't want to be part of the US. They are their own country and wouldn't want to step down to become a state.[/quote]

Are you sure? Lets go out and ask anyone of south american origin - if they are willing to "step down" this way. All of them prefer to starve proudly and independently. Yes, some would never allow that. Ambitious politicians from both sides.

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since this is an issue of "illegal" immigation only and not racial in overtones, I would like to add that I am sick and tired of Swede's coming here sans proper immigration status simply to avoid their "socialist" government and the taxes that go with it. Keeping in mind that we are only considering the legality of such activity so numbers don't really mater. There were 3 such incidences in 2002 and we have to put a stop to it, it's Illegal!

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Good point, Dys, i personally know a half-dozen Russians who are here illegally, and have been for years . . .

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Setanta wrote:

That's false, Baldimo . . . Turkey fails to qualify because of their human rights record, and the quality of their policing and their judiciary. They long ago passed the economic bar.

Let me get this straight, Turkey doesn't qualify due to it's human rights record but it is ok to let Libya be the head of the human rights council in the UN? Does anyone see the irony in this?

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aside from EU =/ UN?

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I don't even know how this started or what it turned into the fact is illegel imigration is a crime, hence the word illegel so it's a crime and that is that I didn't say if people should argue and change the whold dat blam thing.

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Oh, so you started this thread, not Baldimo.

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I suppose one often looks to the nature of the crime to ascertain it's degree of seriousness but when one has an agenda that is simple bigotry and it is self-evident, one has a tendency to dismiss the accusation on it's own merits rather than the letter of the law it argues for. It's been reported that sexual intercourse involving other than the "missonary positon" is illegal in numerous locations does not indicate that peope, in general, take it very seriously. At least, I don't.

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Illegal Immigration is a crime!

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