Abortion. Right or Murder?

I replied to this post last week I believe. In most cases, I have seen that people take an extreme right or extreme left view on abortion. I presented Islamic view which takes the middle ground. Majority of Muslims scholars believe that abortion is allowed if mothers health in in danger at any point during pregnancy. If a woman is raped and she finds that she is pregnant and does not want to carry the baby, she is allowed to have abortion before 120 days (17 weeks of pregnancy). If parents find out that the baby have some genetic issues and will be born with some physical or mental disorder and they want to have abortion, they can do so before 120 days. If parents have few other small kids and have a new baby will be a burden on family in terms of taking care of kids and providing them enough means for good education, they can decide to have an abortion before 120 days ( sooner the better).

There are some hard core Muslims who only allow abortion when mother's health is in danger and don't allow abortion for other scenarios I mentioned above. Either way, I find Islam offers a good balanced view and usual takes the middle path which is closer to human nature and does not makes thing unnecessarily difficult on human being.

No, to clarify I am talking about a bundle of cells lying in a crib, crying, keeping me awake at night, costing me money, depression, financial woe, anxiety, etc.

It cant survive on it's own because it it could I would not have to be feeding it for the next 18 years. So definitely not human yet.

I wouldn't be causing harm to a woman because its not in the woman.

I am talking about killing the bundle of cells before it can survive on it's own and we call it a human. Or leave it in a forest and if it survives 2 weeks maybe we say it's a human.

My point is, if

a woman gets to bend the term "human" to then bend the term "murder"

So that we are now

"Aborting" a "bundle of cells that would be human"

Is that fair?

I am saying I want to abort a bundle of cells that would be human and my significant other might not agree with me. But I cant sleep. I have anxiety, I have depression, my entire life would change, I cant support the bundle of cells, the bundle of cells doesn't have a chance at life, the bundle of cells cant survive on it's own, I am not ready for the bundle of cells.

Ok that's basically every liberal argument ever.

"You cant have guns because 1 out of 15 million kids got shot at school this year."

"Abortion should be completely legal for everyone because like 5 percent of abortions might have something to do with rape or disease"

Straw man fallacy did you catch that?

I see your point but that makes no sense. Does it? Many of us would not be here with that sort of thinking.

There is no bond stronger than the one between a mother and her child. And everyone knows that this bonding takes place long before the child even enters the world. This is another proof for existence of God but for those who reflect. I mean think about the pain, a mother goes through and she still love the one (baby) who gives her this pain? Mothers forget the pain they go through, the moment they see their new born. We see these in animals everyday but for some humans, this is all for nothing. I don't want to go into a tangent but I think what I said is enough for us to reflect.

A balanced answer.

From a religious/ spiritual stance, no what I said would not make sense.
Than again senseless unjustified abortion does not make sense either on that ground. (Exluding the grey area of rape and disease and talking about the other 600000ish abortions, somewhere around 94 percent of abortions that happen.

The main point that pro choice makes is that religion has nothing to do with Law, then a woman has the right to believe whatever she wants and do as she wishes with the "bundle of cells" inside her. (At the point a woman is ok killing a baby she calls the baby ( bundle of cells)
Actually a lot of people who commit any murder like to dehumanize the victim. It clears guilt.

Nothing clears guilt. God has programmed us in a way that everyone can tell when they are doing something wrong. It works like an alarm system but sadly many of us don't listen to our consciousness and end up committing things which are against Divine laws. This is the reason why people like to be on drugs and take shelter in heavy drinking. They are trying to shut down their internal alarm system ( consciousness).

Women who have an abortion end up having multiple issues such as PTSD, depression, mental issues, having suicidal thoughts, anxiety disorder, and increased risk of alcohol abuse among many others. Another reason to think why women suffer from the issues mentioned above if abortion is the right things to do?

Even if we took the God part out of that I think you are on to something there Habib

If we have manuals for any man made thing regarding the operation, safety and maintenance then human being is way more complex then any of the thing man has made. We do have Divine guidance which tells us how we should live our life, what we should do and what we should not do. I understand that it is hard to find truth. What religion we should believe in and how we know which Holy book is Divine?

If you believe in God and are sincere in your search to find God, you will find true guidance and God. It does not matter whether you start as an theist, or a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim. We all at one point in our life ask this fundamental question and look around for answers. If you ask our creator to help you find the truth and be sincere to yourself, you will find the truth.

Again it is a tangent as it does not answer our main topic in this thread but it is related.

I don't disagree with you, but being a religious person typically would tell you it is not ok to abort regardless of the logic behind it.


As Chai pointed out, religious texts do not always make sense and often are misinterpreted. Sometimes even changed or tampered.

For people who do not believe in a "god" or "higher power", the information would have to be played out in a different way. You need a better reason to not kill the baby than "god says",

Your "god" might say a lot of things that I disagree with. Unless you could prove your god is more existant than my god, or that a god exists at all, the point would be mute. Since god cannot be proved than gods argument would only work on that gods followers

You cannot use the logic behind religion to support an argument against someone who doesn't believe in your religion.

At least not if your actually trying to sway someone.

I just figured out that my question was specifically catered to your argument about the "unwanted bundle of cells".

How do you know that is true? I suspect this is really more of "wages of sin" notion that people hope happens to women who have abortions.

Habib, not according to the American Psychological Association, the UK's National Collaborating Centre for Mental Health, the U.K. Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, among others.

Where did you get your information from?

To me, those that do experience problems, means it's falling under the broad feeling of "regret"

As I stated before, who's regret is it?

Anything I have done in life that I regret, it's mine. I own it.

For those (not saying you Habib) who profess to just be wanting this person to avoid having a regret, I say, that's total bull. Especially when it's a bunch of strangers. Sure, if it's someone close to the pregnant woman, there is cause to not want to see her experience mental pain, but they need support, not threats of the bad things that will happen.

I didn't say any of that.

Well, according to the bible, a man could take his wife, if he suspected she committed adultery (read got pregnant by an0ther man while he was away. Travel took a lot of time) to the priest. She would be made to drink a potion of "bitter waters". If she had committed adultery (was pregnant), according to various versions of the text, her belly (uterus) shall drop and her thigh shall rot. The thigh may be a euphenism for her genitals, but I believe it is refering to a fetus. Jewish law teaches until 40 days after conception, the zygote is a mere fluid/water in the womans body. After that it is considered an appendage or limb (for instance thigh) of the woman.


Where were you going with that bitter waters and rotten thigh thing than?

I'm just stating that you put words in my mouth. Period.

If you look back, I wrote that because you stated you were still waiting for an answer, and I supplied one.....something I have already said.

That's where I went with it.

Sometimes I wonder how many of those infants, toddlers and children might have been able to cure cancer, altzheimers, baldness, and ended hunger but are languishing in the Trump kiddy cages, deprived of medicine, soap, toothpaste, real blankets........oh hang on....excuse me for a minute.......I was thinking of the preborn...I'm so sorry, I forgot that those minor children are post-born. Nevermind

So you just blurted any old thing that seemed like an "answer" saying blah blah blah about a bible and what the bible said

It didnt actually have ANY meaning behind it ar all, you just felt like telling stories from the bible as an answer.

Ok. Sorry I misinterpreted that as you trying to say something that made sense, or you trying to make a point.

Oh pshaw glitterbag. Everyone knows that Those people would never amount to anything like that....them are bad hombres.