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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I had to read her answer to your question, Walter. Always a mistake.

Don't you find that expecting any sort of honest and logical conversation with her is rather like imaging that sex with a diseased badger would be a rewarding experience?
Real Music
 
  1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:08 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Bernie folded and backed Biden—who is more right wing than Reagan.
That’s when he lost the whole movement.

1. Did the (real) Lash ever honestly support Bernie Sanders and the progressive agenda?

2. Did the (real) Lash pretend to support Bernie Sanders and the progressive agenda?

3. Did the (real) Lash pretend to prop up Bernie Sanders and the progressive agenda for the sole purpose of sowing discord in the Democratic party?

4. Sometimes it is important to know a person's true motivation and true agenda.

5. Is the (real) Lash a MAGA Republican?

6. Has the (real) Lash ALWAYS been a MAGA Republican?

7. It appears that Lash's most recent postings lately have been revealing her real self.

8. These are just my observations.

9. I don't want to prevent anyone from posting whatever their particular views may be.

10. It's just pretending under false pretense with hidden motives is different thing altogether.

11. When that occurs, that needs to be exposed.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:19 pm
@Lash,
What about the Easter Bunny, he's been a bit dodgy of late.

It's only February and his eggs have been in the shops for weeks.

Vague bollocks is just that.

It's fairly obvious the wealthy have a disproportionate amount of power.

There's the Media and Internet giants with their own platforms.

Then there's the donors, the lobbyists, big oil, defence etc.

There's the individuals who pay umpteen dollars a plate to bend the candidate's ear.

There's all that, it's all public knowledge.

Are you saying that on top of that there's some shadowy individual or organisation controlling everything?

If so that's pure bollocks it's a flexible hate flag that can be dropped on any individual or group when necessary.

"These are the sods controlling everything, they're the ones responsible for all the ****."

The real problem is money, it costs so much to run for office that people are beholden to donors the minute they take office.

The solution is to take money away, severely restrict the amount individuals/groups can pay. Restrict all political advertising to groups that have the support of a certain percent of the population.

Limit the amount of airtime these groups have.

No limits to grass roots activism, people knocking on doors leaflets, public meetings etc.

I feel like Mr Punch.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:34 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Trillions for foreign wars but none for the lives of the taxpayers.


Typically simplistic and over-dramatic.

Who pays for Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare? That's a significant amount going to taxpayers. Social Security will be the biggest expense, budgeted at $1.196 trillion. It's followed by Medicare at $766 billion and Medicaid at $571 billion. And you call that nothing? Meanwhile, the Department of Defense budget is estimated to be around $715 billion – yet the government still manages to fund Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development. That's a lot of money going to taxpayers.

Now, the amount of money going to "foreign wars" is only a portion of the total defense budget with the rest of it going to maintain a global defense shield. And while defending GM, Boeing, and Exxon-Mobil might seem scandalous to you, that money also goes to pay the salaries of the soldiers, sailors, and airmen – who are US citizens. Do you think they shouldn't be paid? And that money also funds our efforts at deterrence – you know, giving Kim Jung Un, Putin, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei pause before deciding to lob a few missiles on US cities and those of our allies. So that can also be seen as expenditures which go to protect the "lives of taxpayers". In other words, your kindergarten-level formulation, "trillions for foreign wars but none for the lives of the taxpayers", is itself a gross lie.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:40 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
70% of Americans want Medicare for All.

However, a significantly smaller percentage of US citizens want to pay for it.
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 01:57 pm
@hightor,
Everyone knows we’d have to pay for it.
Not paying insurance premiums would help a lot.
The hundreds and thousands most people also have to pay in ridiculously inflated medical costs charged over and above ‘allowable insured procedures’ is so much more than a simple tax for healthcare.

Not being the warmonger of the world would pay for it ten times over.

Our unhealth system is a blatant depopulation plan.
hightor
 
  3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 02:09 pm
In her typical over-dramatic and paranoid manner, Lash thinks shadowy billionaires are pulling the president's strings, controlling everything from behind a curtain. She's right that big money is involved, but it's the money going to outfits like the Heritage Foundation which helped to stack the Supreme Court and yield decisions like the one in "Citizens United*". And you can be sure that any attempt to restrict political spending or subsidize political campaigns would be pretty much dead on arrival.

*
Quote:
While wealthy donors, corporations, and special interest groups have long had an outsized influence in elections, that sway has dramatically expanded since the Citizens United decision, with negative repercussions for American democracy and the fight against political corruption.

With its decision, the Supreme Court overturned election spending restrictions that date back more than 100 years. Previously, the court had upheld certain spending restrictions, arguing that the government had a role in preventing corruption. But in Citizens United, a bare majority of the justices held that “independent political spending” did not present a substantive threat of corruption, provided it was not coordinated with a candidate’s campaign.

As a result, corporations can now spend unlimited funds on campaign advertising if they are not formally “coordinating” with a candidate or political party.

The ruling has ushered in massive increases in political spending from outside groups, dramatically expanding the already outsized political influence of wealthy donors, corporations, and special interest groups.

In the immediate aftermath of the Citizens United decision, analysts focused much of their attention on how the Supreme Court designated corporate spending on elections as free speech. But perhaps the most significant outcomes of Citizens United have been the creation of super PACs, which empower the wealthiest donors, and the expansion of dark money through shadowy nonprofits that don’t disclose their donors.

A Brennan Center report by Daniel I. Weiner pointed out that a very small group of Americans now wield “more power than at any time since Watergate, while many of the rest seem to be disengaging from politics.“

“This is perhaps the most troubling result of Citizens United: in a time of historic wealth inequality,” wrote Weiner, “the decision has helped reinforce the growing sense that our democracy primarily serves the interests of the wealthy few, and that democratic participation for the vast majority of citizens is of relatively little value.”

An election system that is skewed heavily toward wealthy donors also sustains racial bias and reinforces the racial wealth gap. Citizens United also unleashed political spending from special interest groups. brennancenter
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 02:16 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Everyone knows we’d have to pay for it.

I didn't say that people didn't know there was a cost. I said they weren't willing to pay for it.

Quote:
Not paying insurance premiums would help a lot.

Yeah, because we wouldn't need doctors? How exactly does not paying for a service fund the cost of the service?

Quote:
Not being the warmonger of the world would pay for it ten times over.

Yeah, universal disarmament is really likely.

Quote:
Our unhealth system is a blatant depopulation plan.

Paranoia on the Q-Anon level here, folks. Those chem-trails, those vaccines – all part of a sinister plot to kill people!
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 02:34 pm
@hightor,
You’re quite a strawman yanking mess.

People ARE willing to pay.
Doctors require payment, not insurance companies.
Not being the warmonger of the world doesn’t require ‘universal disarmament’.

hightor
 
  2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 02:47 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
People ARE willing to pay.

How many people can afford to pay for an operation which costs fifty thousand dollars? The purpose of insurance (and taxes) is to spread the costs out over a larger number of people.
Quote:
Doctors require payment, not insurance companies.

Doctors, nurses, technicians, maintenance workers – it adds up.
Quote:
Not being the warmonger of the world doesn’t require ‘universal disarmament’.

Yeah, like the USA will willingly destroy it's arsenal while Iran's working to develop nuclear weapons. You switch from paranoid to Pollyanna awfully quickly.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 03:02 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Doctors require payment, not insurance companies.
I don't know a lot about how health insurance works in the USA, but here in Germany, the health insurance doesn't only pay the doctors but the hospital stay (including everything there) and what the doctors prescribe: from spa over rehabilitation to logopaedics and physiotherapy and ...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2024 05:10 pm
@hightor,
Lash wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Our unhealth system is a blatant depopulation plan.

My god. This is what an Artificial Intelligence output would look like on the planet Bizarro.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 12:59 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Not being the warmonger of the world would pay for it ten times over.

Total spending on health in 2021–22 is estimated to be $98.3 billion, representing 16.7% of the Australian Government’s total expenditure

Translating this to the US spend would result in
16.7% x 4.4T=$730B for health.
The US govt would have to spend $7.3 Trillion on Defence per year to "pay for UTC 10 times over" using your quote above....more than the entire Federal Revenue.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 04:36 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

I had to read her answer to your question, Walter. Always a mistake.

Don't you find that expecting any sort of honest and logical conversation with her is rather like imaging that sex with a diseased badger would be a rewarding experience?


BINGO!

I understand the reasons for all the replies to and arguments against Lash, but this has become a group doing exactly what she wants...giving her as substantial a platform as possible for her politically focused mendacity.

Giving Joseph Goebbels a a more commanding performance stage might have been the right of every American...but why, oh why would anyone wanted to have done that?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 05:00 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Don't you find that expecting any sort of honest and logical conversation with her is rather like imaging that sex with a diseased badger would be a rewarding experience?
Btw: our Westphalian badger became the American groundhog via emigrants: (Sonnt sich der Dachs in der Lichtmesswoche, geht auf vier Wochen er wieder zu Loche "If the badger suns itself in Candlemas week, it goes back in the hole for four weeks").
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 05:47 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

I understand the reasons for all the replies to and arguments against Lash, but this has become a group doing exactly what she wants...giving her as substantial a platform as possible for her politically focused mendacity.


I know.

You're right.

She seems to enjoy her role here as a political punching bag but there's no real substance to her positions on anything. No matter how many times she's shown to be misguided or completely wrong she just springs back up again like some hideous jack-in-the-box. I think it's her semblance of wit and that quasi-epigrammatic writing style which fuel my running dialogs with her – at a certain point I have to admit to myself that, not only is prolonged discussion worthless, responding with anything more than a dismissive sentence or two is a fool's errand!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 07:44 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I think it's her semblance of wit and that quasi-epigrammatic writing style which fuel my running dialogs with her – at a certain point I have to admit to myself that, not only is prolonged discussion worthless, responding with anything more than a dismissive sentence or two is a fool's errand!
I think many people feel the same way - at least that's the case with me: you read an interesting thread, read different views, opinions and sources ... and then what they produce.
Sure, it's rubbish, but you don't want to accept the response so easily.

Unfortunately, I then also try to provide facts - even though I know that this is a futile endeavour
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 07:59 am
@hightor,
You seem to enjoy punching.
No one enjoys abuse.

I’ll be happy to record events without the abuse.
Can’t you find people you don’t feel the need to abuse and topics you like?
Lash
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 08:01 am
@hightor,
Strawman
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Feb, 2024 08:03 am
How valiantly people on this thread fight universal healthcare.
The rest of the Western world has worked it out.
The US is wealthier than those countries.
Yet, we just don’t have the money for healthcare for our citizens.
 

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