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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:04 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

I would say some, not most and, unfortunately, a lot of them are politicians and other people with power (judges).


Nancy and I are gonna meet Jonathan for a drink on The Pan this afternoon. Haven't seen him since the Covid bullshit began.
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
How nice! Please say Hello for me, and give him a hug if you feel like it Smile
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:14 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

How nice! Please say Hello for me, and give him a hug if you feel like it Smile


Will do! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:14 am
@Mame,
Joining Mame.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Joining Mame.


Will mention you too, Walter.
Walter Hinteler
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2022 08:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'm pleased with honourable mentions Wink
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2022 08:49 pm
@Real Music,

Aired: Aug 29, 2022


0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2022 10:30 am
The new debate over ‘fascist’ becomes the old debate over victimhood
Quote:
Among those labeling his opponents as fascist in broad strokes? Donald Trump.

The president’s excoriation of the political opposition was only minimally qualified.

“Fascists. They are fascists,” he said during a speech. “Some of them, not all of them, but some of them, but they’re getting closer and closer.”

A strong assertion, certainly, but one that barely rippled the surface of the water. Because the president offering that hyperbolic assessment was Donald Trump, two years ago this month. It was one of several times that he would deride Democrats as fascists, even excluding his July 4, 2020, retweet describing a “fascist Democratic Party that wants us to … hate America.”

Trump’s use of the term was largely a function of his I’m-rubber-you’re-glue approach to criticism. Remember when Hillary Clinton called him a “puppet” of Vladimir Putin during a 2016 debate? His response was: “No puppet. You’re the puppet.” So after months of criticism that his approach to the presidency was fascistic, he began applying the term to his opponents.

He had already been calling Democrats Communists, of course, a descriptor that, like his use of “fascist,” is best understood as his using a Political Science 201 vocabulary word as a proxy for “bad people who want to control you.” Fascism is a sufficiently nebulous concept to most people (on both the left and the right) that he could get away with it — particularly since no one expected Trump either to be accurate or cautious in his attacks.

The vagueness surrounding the term also colors the more recent debate surrounding the use of the term by Trump’s successor, someone held to a different rhetorical standard.

“What we’re seeing now is either the beginning or the death knell of an extreme MAGA philosophy,” President Biden said during a campaign event in Maryland last week. “It’s not just Trump, it’s the entire philosophy that underpins the — I’m going to say something: it’s like semi-fascism.”

The response to Biden’s comments immediately rocketed in two directions. The first was to interpret Biden’s criticism as vague and not specific. The second was to interpret it as broad and not limited.

Granted, Biden is also someone who has a habit of saying things that need to be subsequently revised or amended by his team. But what he said in Maryland was more obviously intentional. Since the beginning of his presidency, Biden has described the threat posed to democracy. He has often done so in international terms, convening meetings and engaging in discussions centered on the global tension between democracy and autocracy. But he’s obviously also focused on the threat in the United States. Earlier this month, he met with a number of historians and writers to discuss the rise of fascistic rhetoric and behavior domestically. However politically intended his comments were during that rally, it seems obvious that he intended them.

It also seems clear that his criticism was aimed not broadly at Republicans but a subset of the most fanatic supporters of Trump. In that, his comments echoed the infamous remarks made by Clinton during that 2016 campaign.

“To just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables,” she said at a fundraising event that September. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And, unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She later apologized for the breadth of the framing, but that was quickly lost or ignored. Clinton had declared Trump supporters to be “deplorable,” they insisted — and they embraced the idea. Her intended criticism of the way in which Trump had given political space to fringe, toxic ideologies was lost. The comments were cast as another example of how the liberal left looked down on self-identified “real Americans” who were eager to support Trump — an elite working to undercut elites like Clinton from the inside.

Appearing on Sean Hannity’s show Monday night, Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway made the same rhetorical shift from the “semi-fascist” comment.

“Folks, they think they’re better than you. It’s very simple,” she said. “ … They actually look down upon you. They don’t think that you’re like them. They don’t want their kids to go to school with yours. They don’t want you to live in their neighborhoods.”

It wasn’t Biden claiming that the “extreme MAGA” supporters were “semi-fascistic.” It’s that the breadth of the political left is beholden to elites (like sniffy writers for The Washington Post) who think they’re superior people. This was wealthy D.C. resident Kellyanne Conway’s defense of supporters of the former president who is summering at his golf club in New Jersey.

Trump spent much of Tuesday morning on Truth Social, the bespoke Twitter clone he helped launch. Among the dozens of messages he shared with his followers was one addressing Biden’s comments.

“They banned a sitting president from social media, impeached him two times, jailed his supporters, and now raided his home,” it read. “And then they go on TV and call us the fascists.”

Trump almost certainly shared this largely because he likes how it summarizes a few of his key hobbyhorses. But it’s interesting in part because it attempts to offer a response to Biden on the terms of the actual charge: that Trumpism is fascistic.

Notice that the allegations against Biden are exaggerated or wrong. “They” — the elites, of course — kicked Trump off Twitter after the riot at the Capitol that he used social media to stoke. That riot is also responsible for one of the impeachments and all of those jailed supporters. An event, of course, that many academics and historians understand in the context of a fascistic effort by Trump to retain power.

“What you are seeing is a classic technique of tyrants and authoritarians where they use the methods of dictatorship while accusing their opponents of being fascist,” former Trump aide (and Jan. 6, 2021, speechwriter) Stephen Miller said during a different Fox News program on Monday night. Miller, too, was hoping to you’re-the-puppet Biden’s criticism, proving while doing so that irony is not fatal. He went on to claim that the Biden administration was “authoritarian and repressive.”

“Interesting how pretty much every person who actually studies authoritarianism and fascism around the world and throughout history is deeply, deeply worried about Trump Republicans,” University College London associate professor Brian Klaas wrote in response to Miller’s comment, “and not at all worried about Joe Biden’s completely normal center left governance.”

The Miller appearance was part of a panel including right-wing author Kurt Schlichter and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk. (His group, incidentally, recently demanded that reporters attending events involving candidates for office provide access to recorded footage, among other restrictions.) Kirk, echoing host Sean Duffy’s rhetoric, claimed that Biden’s description of “traditional Americans” as fascist (which isn’t what Biden said) was intentional.

“Their language is precise for a reason,” Kirk said. “If you actually encountered a fascist, then what wouldn’t you do against that person? They’re calling half the country fascists because then that justifies a Patriot Act 2.0 type of response.” The Democrats, he insisted, were the real fascists.

Here meaning “bad people who want to control you, the hard-working average American.” Biden’s actual criticism, tailored to a portion of the right and watered down by “semi,” is simply grist for a rhetorical machine built to bolster Trump and to defend, at whatever cost, his effort to return to power.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2022 03:43 pm
Trump says he will 'very, very seriously' consider January 6 pardons if he runs and wins in 2024.


Published September 1, 2022


Quote:
Washington (CNN)Former President Donald Trump said Thursday he will "very, very seriously" consider full pardons for the rioters who breached the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, if he runs for reelection and wins.

"I will tell you, I will look very, very favorably about full pardons. If I decide to run and if I win, I will be looking very, very strongly about pardons. Full pardons," Trump said on Wendy Bell Radio Thursday, adding: "We'll be looking very, very seriously at full pardons because we can't let that happen. ... And I mean full pardons with an apology to many."

Trump had made a similar promise during his final days in office when some of the January 6 rioters were already in jail. None, however, were pardoned before he left office.

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a member of the House select committee investigating January 6, told CNN's Victor Blackwell on "CNN Tonight" Thursday night that she found Trump's pardon remarks "shocking," especially after a January 6 rioter was sentenced earlier in the day to 10 years for assaulting a police officer.

"That the former President would be talking about pardoning people who engaged in that behavior really is shocking," the California Democrat said.

Trump's comments come amid intense speculation about a potential reelection bid, and Trump's continued invocation of the Capitol attack could preview a central part of his future political messaging.

Asked Thursday if he was going to run again, Trump responded, "Well the time is coming closer and I think you're going to be really happy," adding, "You know you have the campaign finance laws and it doesn't allow you, it's crazy, it's not smart."

"I will be doing something and I think you're going to be happy," he added.
CNN has reached out to representatives for Trump for comment.

CNN previously reported that, after months of eyeing Labor Day weekend as the target launch date for a 2024 campaign, Trump has spent the past few weeks backing away from that timeline following the FBI search of his Mar-a-Lago estate and an increased panic among Republicans that the party may not be in for the red wave it has long anticipated this November.

While his timeline could shift again between now and November, the onslaught of political and legal concerns has the former President feeling nervous about prematurely diving into the 2024 primary, according to nine former and current Trump aides and allies who requested anonymity to discuss internal matters.

The former President went on to claim Thursday that he's "financially supporting" some Capitol rioters who he referred to as "incredible."

"They were in my office actually two days ago. It's very much on my mind. It's a disgrace what they've done to them, what they've done to these people," Trump continued, not naming who he met with specifically.

Though pardons could only apply to criminal defendants, and nearly all defendants who are charged at this time were at the US Capitol on January 6, critics of Trump have previously raised the possibility he could be trying to buy the silence of close advisers who didn't participate directly in the insurrection.

Lofgren condemned the suggestion that Trump would provide financial support to Capitol rioters, telling Blackwell, "That he would be funding people who tried to, you know, essentially murder the vice president, overturn the election. ... And to say that that is patriotic, to say that those people should get an apology, I'm sorry. That is disgusting."


https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/01/politics/january-6-pardons-trump-2024/index.html
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2022 12:52 pm
Meidas Touch commentary:

This is a recent maga rally in Ohio where Trump essentially states his separation from the Republican Party. He claims he is separate from the Republicans who are losing in polls. Essentially he has declared his own party, the Maga party, a fascist party, without naming it as such.

This is history in the making with the beginning formation and evolution of a fascist state in America.

"The Republican party's duty is to loyally follow Donald Trump," says Marjorie Taylor Green.

The crowd holds out their arms with a Nazi-like salute and a one-finger variation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC_olOsBRro

BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2022 09:01 pm
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:

Meidas Touch commentary:

This is a recent maga rally in Ohio where Trump essentially states his separation from the Republican Party. He claims he is separate from the Republicans who are losing in polls. Essentially he has declared his own party, the Maga party, a fascist party, without naming it as such.

This is history in the making with the beginning formation and evolution of a fascist state in America.


It is not easy to create a new party other than Dem and Rep in the US. Requirements have to be met in every state in which the person wishes to run for President, and they differ drastically sometimes!

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates#Requirements_for_independents<br />
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2022 10:46 am
@BillW,
Doesn't sound like that's going to go anywhere then. Loser!
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2022 12:53 pm
@Mame,
A new party called "Loser". I love it!
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2022 03:14 pm
@roger,

setting the bar a tad low...
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2022 05:44 pm
@Region Philbis,
Aactually, I think it is a tad high! 🤗
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2022 10:55 pm
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2022 05:53 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

1. The racist and fascist Trump has given (permission) to other racist and fascist followers
to show their true racist and fascist beliefs.

2. Because of Trump, Trump's racist and fascist followers are showing their (true selves)
unapologetically.

3. Many of those people are Republicans who are currently sitting office holders
at all levels of government.

4. Also, many of those people are Republicans seeking to get elected
at all levels of government.


I think the date to look for is 2 years after Trump is dead or shuts up. If all has quieted down, we maybe on out way to saving democracy. It will be basically that you can not find anyone who voted for or agreed with Trump in a public setting.

The only time they will fess.up to him is in closed groupings of themselves. And, they will become smaller and smaller; and fewer and fewer. Kind like - after Nixon was run outta town and his supporters were hard to find.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Sep, 2022 04:10 am
Guess we need a ‘Rising Fascism in Europe’ thread…

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/24/1124685476/giorgia-meloni-italy-election
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Sep, 2022 04:46 am
@Lash,
Italy is where all this **** starts, Mussolini before Hitler,
Berlusconi begore Trump.

It doesn't bode well.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Sep, 2022 04:47 am
@Lash,
You can start one, of course, but: in Italy the fascists never disappeared, anf such a new government has been expected. (Remember that Berlusconi was PM in four governments from 1994 to 1995, 2001 to 2006 and 2008 to 2011.)
And besides, they form the government in Hungary, are in federal and state parliaments in Germany, virtually present in France, Spain ... all for a long time.
 

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