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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
hightor
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 07:50 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Yeah, I know who made the comment. And no, it doesn't matter what "high position" she holds – the more prominent she is, the more scrutiny she gets. Nothing about her "high position" makes her dangerous. She's just a single U.S. Representative. Relax.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 07:31 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

That rabbi is absolutely right and it's downright scary and shameful that the populace is so ignorant of major world events. How could they not bloody know about the holocaust??? The Diary of Anne Frank was required reading when I was about 12, for Pete's sake.

So many Americans are ignorant of just about everything that doesn't personally concern themselves. I've seen those sidewalk segments on Jay Leno and, of course, Rick Mercer's "Talking With Americans". Seriously, they can't even identify the USA on a world map! And now they want to teach them even less and ban books. What the hell is going on down there?


A former vice-president of the United States...did not know what the "holocaust" was. Dan Quayle fumbled a question about it with, "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/15/88)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 07:44 am
Almost all of the vitriol being aimed at Goldberg now (she's a racist or she's an anti-Semite) is not coming from the Jewish community. It's coming from the right.

So a proper address to all this would be to analyze why this is so.
Lash
 
  2  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 07:55 am
@blatham,
I did notice the worst comments are coming from the right. I rarely use Twitter now, and when I looked yesterday, Whoopi criticism was overwhelmingly conservative.

And libs are covering for her and saying it’s not a big deal and two weeks off work was too much.
blatham
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 08:44 am
@Lash,
Quote:
And libs are covering for her

Covering for her? What has she done we're covering up? Is she a racist? An anti-Semite? And are non-right wing Jewish voices covering up for her too?
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 09:08 am
@blatham,
She’s stupid. She minimized the Holocaust. She’s made other stupid comments. She’s on a show, unlike Rogan’s, that gives the appearance of a news or journalism format. Barbara Walters was the initial anchoring member.

How many media articles have I seen that cover for her…? One was titled We Are All Whoopi.

There are good reasons to criticize her. The hypocrisy between her treatment and Rogan’s is irritating.

But, I prefer the market to work these things out naturally. In Whoopi’s case, I don’t have a complaint with how it’s working out.

I have concerns about how Rogan’s situation is working out. Amazon’s profiteering and sledgehammer against streaming competition Spotify makes me wonder if someone pulled strings behind the scenes.

Rogan is not worse than Whoopi, imo.

hightor
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 09:34 am
@Lash,
Wikipedia wrote:
Walters described it as "a talk show featuring four or five women 'of different backgrounds, different generations, and different opinions,' who would discuss the topics of the day, mixing humor with intelligent debate."

Did they think Goldberg would be an astute political commentator? Or were they just looking for controversy? Again, I've never watched an episode, but maybe they could have selected women with backgrounds in politics and journalism??? Just wondering.
Quote:
Rogan is not worse than Whoopi, imo.

But they're being criticized for really different things; I don't think the comparison is that useful. I don't know if you read the MSN piece I posted yesterday, but it's led me to be a bit more critical of Rogan. As I explained, I'm fine with him interviewing people who are critical of the administration's covid policy but letting people spread falsehoods and pseudo-science concerning a public health emergency seems a little bit irresponsible. To me.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 09:44 am
@Lash,
Quote:
She's stupid...She’s on a show, unlike Rogan’s, that gives the appearance of a news or journalism format.

And how do Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Meghan McCain and Abby Huntsman fit into this picture?

Quote:
The hypocrisy between her treatment and Rogan’s is irritating.

As pointed out to you earlier, Rogan has been forwarding voices which contribute to the anti-vax project (almost entirely a right wing phenomenon) which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in the US. And the US now has a death rate from covid which is far greater than any other western nation.
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 09:56 am
Whoopi Goldberg’s American Idea of Race

The “racial” distinctions between master and slave may be more familiar to Americans, but they were and are no more real than those between Gentile and Jew.

Quote:
It made sense, to the New York Daily News sports editor, that these guys dominated basketball. After all, “the game places a premium on an alert, scheming mind and flashy trickiness, artful dodging and general smartalecness,” not to mention their “God-given better balance and speed.”

He was referring, of course, to the Jews.

In the 1930s, Paul Gallico was trying to explain away Jewish dominance of basketball. He came up with the idea that the game’s structure simply appealed to the immutable traits of wily Hebrews and their scheming minds. It sounds strange to the ear now, but only because our stereotypes about who is inherently good at particular sports have shifted. His theory is not any more or less insightful now than it was then; his confidence should remind us to be skeptical of similar, supposedly explanatory arguments that abound today.

Looking back at old stereotypes is a useful exercise; it can help illustrate the arbitrary nature of the concept of “race,” and how such identities shift even as people insist on their permanence and infallibility. Because race is not real, it is malleable enough to be made to serve the needs of those with the power to define it, the certainties of one generation giving way to the contradictory dogmas of another.

Whoopi Goldberg, the actor and a co-host of The View, stumbled into a public-relations nightmare for ABC on Monday when she insisted that “the Holocaust wasn’t about race.” After an episode of The Late Show With Stephen Colbert aired in which she opined that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people,” she was temporarily suspended from The View. She has apologized for her remarks.

I don’t mean to pile on Goldberg here, who I think is struggling with an American conception of “race” that renders the anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust illegible. I regard her remarks not as malicious, but as an ignorant projection of that American conception onto circumstances to which it does not apply. In America, distinctions among European immigrants that were once considered deeply significant dissolved in the melting pot, leaving an absence in popular memory that might explain their salience elsewhere, and how someone could be seen as white in America and yet still be subject to persecution based on their “race.”

The Nazi Holocaust in Europe and slavery and Jim Crow in the United States are outgrowths of the same ideology—the belief that human beings can be delineated into categories that share immutable biological traits distinguishing them from one another and determining their potential and behavior. In Europe, with its history of anti-Jewish persecution and violent religious divisions, the conception of Jews as a biological “race” with particular characteristics was used by the Nazis to justify the Holocaust. In the United States, the invention of race was used to justify the institution of chattel slavery, on the basis that Black people were biologically suited to permanent servitude and unfit for the rights the nation’s Founders had proclaimed as universal. The American color line was therefore much more forgiving to European Jews than the divisions of the old country were. But they are branches of the same tree, the biological fiction of race.

In the United States, physical distinctions between most Black and most white people have misled some into thinking that the American conception of race is somehow more “real” than the racial fictions on which the Nazis based their campaign of extermination. Applying the American color line to Europe, the Holocaust appears merely to be a form of sectarian violence, “white people” attacking “white people,” which seems nonsensical. But those persecuting Jews in Europe saw Jews as beastly subhumans, an “alien race” whom they were justified in destroying in order to defend German “racial purity.” The “racial” distinctions between master and slave may be more familiar to Americans, but they were and are no more real than those between Gentile and Jew.

Adherence to religious belief was not required to be subject to Nazi persecution, and unlike some prior moments in European history, conversion was insufficient to escape danger. Jewish ancestry was enough, because it was ancestry—a person’s “race”—that made someone inescapably Jewish. In his infamous memoir, Adolf Hitler regretted that, early in life, he’d seen anti-Semitism as persecution of a people on the basis of religious belief, which he thought wrong. He later came to think of this as a Jewish lie to hide the reality that the Jewish people were a separate “race” whose goal was to enslave the rest of mankind. It should not be lost that enslaving all of mankind is a concise summary of Hitler’s own political project.

“Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief,” my colleague Yair Rosenberg wrote. “But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components.”

This is all true, but Black Americans are not really a “race” either, and the borders of Black American identity can also be difficult to define or agree upon. To some extent, shared history, culture, and ancestry exist, but as the scholars Karen and Barbara Fields write in Racecraft, the very concept of race implies a material reality where none exists. Most American descendants of the emancipated have white ancestry, and millions of white Americans with African ancestry have no knowledge of it. “Race is not an idea but an ideology. It came into existence at a discernible historical moment for rationally understandable historical reasons,” the Fieldses write, “and is subject to change for similar reasons.”

It is not necessary for race to be real for racism to be real. It is only necessary that people believe race to be real. When people act on fictions, those actions have repercussions even if the underlying belief is false—even if the people know that the underlying belief they are acting on is false. The fact that anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about Jewish control of the media, of governments, and of financial institutions are untrue does not rob them of their explanatory power for those who choose to believe in them. For Thomas Jefferson to know, somewhere in the disquiet of his own conscience, that slavery was a “cruel war against human nature itself” did not in and of itself grant freedom to those he owned as property.

“The people who settled the country had a fatal flaw. They could recognize a man when they saw one. They knew he wasn’t—I mean you can tell, they knew he wasn’t—anything else but a man; but since they were Christian, and since they had already decided that they came here to establish a free country, the only way to justify the role this chattel was playing in one’s life was to say that he was not a man,” James Baldwin wrote in 1964. “For if he wasn’t a man, then no crime had been committed.”

To this, we could add Jean-Paul Sartre’s observation that “if the Jew did not exist, the anti-Semite would invent him.” Race allows humanity to keep inventing, in language that can bend the most rational minds, groups of people whose supposed characteristics justify whatever cruelty we might wish to indulge.

theatlantic/serwer
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 10:12 am
@hightor,
I was just reading that piece and it is excellent! Serwer is always worth attending to.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 10:28 am
@blatham,
Firstly, why can’t you discuss honestly and without bias Whoopi Goldberg in a conversation without mentioning the other people? She’s made some lame-brained comments.

I’ve only watched The View a handful of times, usually when someone gets in the news cycle for saying something stupid. Almost every time, the culprit has been Meghan McCain. She’s insufferable. So is Whoopi. I’m glad McCain no longer has the platform. I don’t think someone as ignorant as Whoopi should have such a platform either, but I’m satisfied to leave that decision to her employer.

Please bring proof that Joe Rogan has caused deaths. Ridiculous comment. He is a guy with a talk show who doesn’t pretend to be a doctor or scientist. Shutting down all voices who disagree with an oppressively policed government narrative is dangerous, imo.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 11:03 am
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/oklahoma-rob-standridge-education-religion-bill-b2007247.html?fbclid=IwAR2oiVGNHZOfW8mGMvW8dM-9P659xtYLp8H5DrU_PlpTzOCagx0M7ifMktU

In other fascist news:

A bill requiring teachers to be fined 10K for treading on religion. In 7th grade medieval history curriculum, it was my job to teach the origins of four primary religions. I can hardly believe people are so backward.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 11:30 am
Some interesting data on the trucker convoy thing up here.
trucknews.com
hightor
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 11:37 am
@blatham,
Quote:
She was also affiliated with the Yellow Vest movement, which was linked to death threats against our Prime Minister. Is that what we’ve become, Canada? To her credit, Lich attempted to distance her local chapter from those making the death threats. But think about that for a second…she was affiliated with an organization that threatened to kill our Prime Minister – and now has nearly $1 million of your money to distribute as she sees fit.

Rolling Eyes
Mame
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 11:38 am
@blatham,
I think more recently, however, GoFundMe suspended that account which was up to about $10M. Also, one reader replied that GFM had refunded his donation.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 11:39 am
@hightor,
There's one in every family Smile
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 12:31 pm
Not a good time for teachers or critics of Israel.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/nyregion/synagogues-israel-opinion.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3rdGILHK4Ob4g_VRLWfOyUgNPtwDLc1voNjVEH_vxAnbAMUWquARuvBr8
Fired!
Mame
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 01:06 pm
@Lash,
If her beliefs didn't align with theirs, they're at fault for not doing a better vetting job during the interview process. She didn't hire herself, after all.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 03:08 pm
There is now a wikipedia page for the Freedom Covoy 2022 up. Here's a bit of it...
Quote:
Links to far-right and separatist groups
- One of the lead organizers of the convoy, James Bauder, has previously stated support for QAnon, endorsed conspiracy theories around the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020 U.S. presidential election, and called for the arrest of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for alleged "treason".[124]

- The Facebook page for the convoy has shared content from and listed as an organizer Wexit co-founder and Yellow Vest Canada organizer Patrick King, who has previously hosted counter-protests to anti-racism rallies, spread COVID-19 misinformation, and spread the Great Replacement conspiracy theory.[125][126][127]

- Maverick Party - Tamara Lich, the protest's fundraiser, is Secretary for the Maverick Party, a western separatist group formerly known as Wexit Canada.[96] Lich was previously the regional co-ordinator for Wexit in southeastern Alberta and board member for Wexit Alberta.[128] The Maverick Party has denied involvement in fundraising for the convoy, issuing a statement on January 24 saying that the party is not involved in the protest.[98]

- Action 4 Canada - associated with the Canada Unity group inside the Freedom Convoy - Islamophobic and anti-LGBTQ conspiracy group with webpages about the dangers of political Islam, health consequences of 5G technology and underreporting of adverse vaccine reactions.[125] Founded by Tanya Gaw who actively supported the Yellow Vests protests of 2019.[129]

- No More Lockdowns - Jason LaFace, Canada Unity's Ontario organizer for the Freedom Convoy is also a main organizer for No More Lockdowns Canada - An anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine mandate organization primarily associated with expelled Ontario MPP Randy Hillier which holds anti-lockdown rallies across Ontario.[45][130]

- Peoples Party of Canada - Benjamin Dichter who is listed as an organizer on the Freedom Convoy GoFundMe page and who is an organizer of the Freedom Convoy was a speaker at the inaugural 2019 PPC National Convention where he claimed political Islam has infiltrated the Conservative Party and is "rotting away at our society like syphilis".[131]

- Soldiers of Odin - Convoy leader Dave Steenburg and admin of the Convoy Facebook page Jason LaFace both have posted material by Soldiers of Odin, a neo nazi vigilante group, on their Facebook pages, LaFace even wearing a SOO jacket.[132][133]
Mame
 
  0  
Fri 4 Feb, 2022 03:58 pm
@blatham,
The problem with all this is, these are the organizers - what do the truckers even know about them? They just wanted to show support. The links my son sent, which I can post here, if asked, show the truckers being normal human beings helping out and doing good works.

Anyway, all Alberta and Sask truckers should just come home - all the mandates are being lifted in the coming days. They've participated and done their bit - all protests end and it looks like Ottawa has some plans.

Who do you think should or will be the next leader of the federal Conservative Party?
 

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