I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

@Lash,

It is small. But it broke the oppositional theme for a moment.
Ah, well... back to the battle...

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Too many people on a2k think a Bernie campaign cannot win. I disagree.

I also disagree with that nefarious strategy: Settle for Hillary because Bernie can't win. That's untrue party propaganda and a ridiculous reason to support someone as awful as Hillary. She's as a bad as the Republican candidates.

This election cycle is truly an eye-opener, and many millions of people of every age are watching as our political parties show their true colors.

When it comes to politics, I don't care that Justice Scalia died. So what? It's sad for his family, but I'm not going to allow the Democrats to use that card against me ... vote for Hillary (the alleged "lesser evil") or else the Republicans will have the power to choose "conservative" justices. I'm getting old ... I already had to live with Scalia on the high bench for nearly 30 years ... and I still don't care about Hillary. I'll never vote for her even if that means the Democrats lose the white house. I'm sure others feel the same way: Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

Bernie can win, and if the Democrat party establishment blocks his chances, then the Democrats need to be replaced too.

6 Replies

@Debra Law,

Good to see you again, Debra, and I agree with you about Bernie. I think the college age voters like Bernie.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Quote:

the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

Yes sir!

0 Replies

@snood,

Should we go to the birdwatchers' forum? 😜

0 Replies

@Ragman,

Quote Ragman:

Quote:

Firstly, during Clinton's presidency was at the peak of the hi-tech/dot.com boom. I don't agree if anyone says that was his creation but Bill Clinton didn't interfere with that, and yet he gets the credit.

"Dot com boom" is largely GOP propaganda. The dot com segment of the economy is not so big that it caused all that. How about all the auto workers working overtime, and all the local welfare office that were closing due to lack of applicants, was that all dot com?

Quote Ragman:

Quote:

He did, however, lessen and deregulate banking/Wall St., mortgage lenders and banks grew into being super-banks - able to dabble in stock market and derivatives. Thanks, Bill ... you greased the skills for the deep recession and wall-st-scandals that followed.

The Republicans wanted it and he mistakenly went along. But one question-since this mistake did not manifest itself until7 years after Clinton left office, how much of that do you want to lay on him? When Obama took first took office he inherited from Bush six million Full Time jobs LOST the previous year-2.6 Million Full Time jobs lost the previous quarter-and obviously that enormous setback is still being felt. But Clinton was out of office for almost two terms before this thing went out of control. Most of the responsibility lies elsewhere on that one.

0 Replies

@Debra Law,

Quote Debra Law:

Quote:

I'm getting old ... I already had to live with Scalia on the high bench for nearly 30 years ... and I still don't care about Hillary. I'll never vote for her even if that means the Democrats lose the white house.

Okay, since you are getting old, I sincerely hope you have enough stacked away so that when the Republican House and Republican Senate get rid of Social Security and Medicare in their present form and the Republican President signs it into law it won't affect you much. The GOP has gone far to the right and they are systematically dismantling the New Deal and New Frontier programs that started under Roosevelt and Kennedy. And they don't believe in Keynes, so expect the economy to suck and expect to hear nothing from them except excuses about how much socialism screwed up the country for 70 years.

It's your vote.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Quote:

Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

You must not feel you have anything to lose. I don't know how else you can act as if this country can take another 4-8 years like the ones Bush Jr. gave us. If you're old, maybe you don't care that Roe v. wade will be in danger. If you're well-to-do, maybe it won't affect you if they eliminate more of the safety net programs. If you don't have school aged children, maybe you don't care about affordable education. You guys are letting your antipathy toward Hillary poison your common sense. No one's saying don't vote for Bernie, at least I'm not. I'm just saying to support the Democratic candidate in the general. I can't believe anyone who cares anything about anyone other than themselves would really believe we can afford to "Let the Republicans have the white house".

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Hello, CI.

I'm thrilled to see so many articles and discussions on the internet on this subject. We all know that Hillary has been chosen by the party establishment as the heir apparent to the presidency. But, the party leaders don't speak for me or millions of other Bernie supporters. They can stack the deck against him, but we can see what they're doing ... and it makes us angry.

We have reached into our pockets to support Bernie's campaign because we're tired of the corporate cronies in Washington who pay lip service to our issues and then legislate and conduct business for the benefit of a privileged few.

Hillary won't nominate a true progressive for a seat on the Supreme Court. She'll nominate someone who has been groomed by the establishment to protect the interests of big corporations. We have a corporate Congress. And when the Democrats were in power ... had control of both Congress and the presidency ... the best they could do for us was pass the "Affordable Healthcare Act" that made us become the mandatory customers of insurance companies under the penalty of law? I'm disgusted.

Democrats and Republicans play us for fools. They dole out "red meat" to get the rabble fighting over divisive social issues ... and then they go back into their office chambers and divide up the American pie for the benefit of their corporate sponsors. In the meantime, we're suffering. Our jobs are being shipped to other countries. Our infrastructure is deteriorating. Our schools aren't preparing our children to enter adulthood as critical thinkers with decent educations. Health insurance premiums have skyrocketed and insurance companies are reaping record profits.

This election cycle discloses how corrupt our system is ... and the younger generations need to stand up and take control of the reins of our state and federal governments before it's too late for them and their children to crawl out of the hole that the corporate cronies have been digging for us. First, we need to elect Bernie ... and then we need to clean house in our legislative branches. We can do it, if we don't settle. Apathy is not an option.

0 Replies

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Quote Debra Law:

Quote:
I'm getting old ... I already had to live with Scalia on the high bench for nearly 30 years ... and I still don't care about Hillary. I'll never vote for her even if that means the Democrats lose the white house.

Okay, since you are getting old, I sincerely hope you have enough stacked away so that when the Republican House and Republican Senate get rid of Social Security and Medicare in their present form and the Republican President signs it into law it won't affect you much. The GOP has gone far to the right and they are systematically dismantling the New Deal and New Frontier programs that started under Roosevelt and Kennedy. And they don't believe in Keynes, so expect the economy to suck and expect to hear nothing from them except excuses about how much socialism screwed up the country for 70 years.

It's your vote.

Okay ... so the Democrats engage in fear-mongering and the Republicans engage in hate-mongering ... yet, I'm not trembling in my shoes. Is that what you're suggesting I should do? that I better hope a Democrat controlled Congress will rake in enough taxes from our shrinking middle class to pay for my social security entitlements ... and hope that I die before there's no middle class left to foot the bill? I'm not convinced that succumbing to fear is my best option.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

I wish I believed that there wasn't a harsh young generation of Republicans coming up, but they're out there and they're mean and nasty. Those dinosaurs managed to breed some strong new ones.

2 Replies

@Debra Law,

I don't think it's fear mongering to simply state the truth-all of the Republican candidates have plans to do away with Medicare in anything like its present form and all of them except Trump plan to do the same to Social Security. And Trump switched off preserving Medicare pretty quick once he started running, so I don't trust him to stand up for Social Security. Once upon a time, these programs were pretty solidly defended by Republicans and Democrats alike, but the GOP has gone all the way to the right and now those programs, along with the rest of the social safety net, is marked for extinction if the GOP takes the White House.

The last Republican President spent years trying to divert Social Security money into individual accounts, which even many conservatives said would bankrupt the system. That guy's brother is now considered the shining hope of the allegedly moderate and responsible faction of the Republican Party. They go farther and farther away from what used to be normal every year. If you want to turn the government over to them, or don't care, well, it's your vote.

As far as the middle class disappearing, we are still presently recovering from the crash of 2008-9, where we lost 11 Million Full Time jobs. Under Obama, we weathered that storm, and are now coming back strong. Notice the Employment-Population Ratio for ages 25-54-the heart of a person's working life. See how that is doing now? Don't give up now that things are going the right way-it took a long time to get them going in the right direction.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Employment%20Populatin%20ratio%2025-54%20%201993%20thru%202015%20Clinton%20bush%20Obama_zpszgighom9.jpg

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

Too many people on a2k think a Bernie campaign cannot win. I disagree.

I also disagree with that nefarious strategy: Settle for Hillary because Bernie can't win. That's untrue party propaganda and a ridiculous reason to support someone as awful as Hillary. She's as a bad as the Republican candidates.

This election cycle is truly an eye-opener, and many millions of people of every age are watching as our political parties show their true colors.

When it comes to politics, I don't care that Justice Scalia died. So what? It's sad for his family, but I'm not going to allow the Democrats to use that card against me ... vote for Hillary (the alleged "lesser evil") or else the Republicans will have the power to choose "conservative" justices. I'm getting old ... I already had to live with Scalia on the high bench for nearly 30 years ... and I still don't care about Hillary. I'll never vote for her even if that means the Democrats lose the white house. I'm sure others feel the same way: Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

Bernie can win, and if the Democrat party establishment blocks his chances, then the Democrats need to be replaced too.

So glad to have you back.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

For a change, I disagree with Debra Law. I'm an old Democrat - there are hills that are younger - and I'm not fond of Hillary Clinton. I had a thread a year, or was it two ago, asking in the title, "is there anybody else?", due to my perceptions of her over time. But, for the reasons that Blickers and Snood and ehBeth are saying, combined with my thoughts that she has had liberal behavior in the past, some of the time, I'll go for her if Bernie doesn't win the primary. I'm vacillating on that, may even pick her in the primary here, but still likely not, since Bernie more closely represents me.

0 Replies

@snood,

snood wrote:

Quote:
Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

You must not feel you have anything to lose. I don't know how else you can act as if this country can take another 4-8 years like the ones Bush Jr. gave us. If you're old, maybe you don't care that Roe v. wade will be in danger. If you're well-to-do, maybe it won't affect you if they eliminate more of the safety net programs. If you don't have school aged children, maybe you don't care about affordable education. You guys are letting your antipathy toward Hillary poison your common sense. No one's saying don't vote for Bernie, at least I'm not. I'm just saying to support the Democratic candidate in the general. I can't believe anyone who cares anything about anyone other than themselves would really believe we can afford to "Let the Republicans have the white house".

I don't care about Roe v. Wade. That's red meat. If the Supreme Court ever ruled that individuals have no right to choose for themselves whether to bear and beget children ... that the states have the right to control the reproductive lives of its citizens ... then you would see a political backlash that would clean the morality police out of political office once and for all. I have enough common sense not to fall victim to fear mongering.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

I have no motivation to try to fear monger anyone, and I'd appreciate not being accused of it. I have no concern about who Democrats choose to vote for in their primaries. My only concern is for Hillary voters who have so much disdain they won't vote for Bernie, and Bernie voters who feel so ill toward Hillary they'd rather see Trump. I think they're being short sighted and mean spirited for reasons of their own, but those reasons damn sure have nothing to do with what's best for the country they live in.

2 Replies

@snood,

You always call us mean spirited for not seeing it your way, as if we could not have principles beyond what you envision.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

No. No, no, no. Not mean-spirited for disagreeing with ME. Mean-spirited for attacking Hillary on so many other things than her policies, or what she has done in the last 20 years. Mean-spirited for bringing the whole attitude of "If we don't get our candidate, we don't give a damn". That mean-spirited. You always want to accuse me of making this personal, but I STILL don't think I'm the one doing that.

3 Replies

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Debra Law wrote:
Let the Republicans can have the damn white house and stack the court and alienate the majority of voting-age citizens ... they're pounding the nails in their own party coffin everyday as it is, and the hate-mongering dinosaurs will soon be extinct.

I wish I believed that there wasn't a harsh young generation of Republicans coming up, but they're out there and they're mean and nasty. Those dinosaurs managed to breed some strong new ones.

Perhaps I am optimistic that the social reforms (which were "hoisted" on this nation by enlightened jurists in their enlightened decisions) took root and flourished throughout the land. Yes, I can see that many unenlightened hate-mongers spawned more like themselves. Case in point are some of the morons who were recently arrested in Oregon for occupying federal property and taking up arms against the government. The last hold-out, an ignorant young man, broadcast his ignorant ideas on some youtube channel during the final hours before his surrender. His brand of ignorance is the product of divisive politics, and so long as we keep feeding and fueling the divide ... it will continue to rear its ugly head from time to time. But, I believe there exist more enlightened people today than ignorant people.

0 Replies

@Blickers,

Recovering slowly. What I don't understand is that unemployment is supposed to be 4.9%.

1 Reply

I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

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