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Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

 
 
layman
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 09:49 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Actually, if you had done your homework, you would know that the Hammonds were fined for the amount that it cost to put the fire out.


Actually, Glenn, I don't think they were fined. But they did agree to pay $400,000 to the BLM for supposed "damages." I don't think it was "for the cost of putting the fire out." Everything I read says the Hammonds put it out themselves.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 09:54 pm
@layman,
So, Glitterbag can rest assured that he's not out any cash because of the Hammonds?

Here is what I read about the fine, and where I read it:

The Hammonds in late 2014 agreed to pay the federal government $400,000 to settle a lawsuit seeking to force them to pay more than a $1 million in costs for fighting fires they set. The Hammonds paid $200,000 right away and paid the rest Thursday.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 09:56 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

So, Glitterbag can rest assured that he's not out any cash because of the Hammonds?


Who's "he" Glenn? You mean Glitter? She's female.

They have paid $200,000 since getting out of jail. But since they are now back in jail, and can't ranch, they probably can't pay the balance so, as planned, the BLM will probably get their land after all, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 09:59 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
The Hammonds paid $200,000 right away and paid the rest Thursday.


Thanks for the info, Glenn. I hadn't seen that link.

0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:01 pm
Quote:
Rancher Dwight Hammond Jr. paused while loading cattle one recent day to listen to the fundraising pitch.

Another rancher was selling raffle tickets, raising money for local scholarships while working cattle southeast of town.

Hammond drew out his wallet and pulled out the only currency he had – a $100 bill. He bought five tickets, never asking for change.

Hammond has reached for his wallet a lot in this country. He and his ranch family have supported virtually every charitable activity there is around Harney County. They buy youngsters' animals at 4H sales. They host barbecues. They support the local senior center.


Glenn's link

Moochin, tax-evadin lowlifes, sho nuff, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:11 pm
More from Glenn's link:

Quote:
The settlement also required the Hammonds to give the land bureau first chance at buying a particular ranch parcel adjacent to public land if they intended to sell. For some, this was evidence that the government all along was after the Hammond ground to add to its Steens Mountain holdings.

"One thing that upsets cattle people is that provision," said Bob Skinner, a Jordan Valley rancher representing the Oregon Cattlemen's Association. But federal attorneys said the land provision was inserted in case the Hammonds felt they had to sell ranchland to pay the settlement. The Hammonds apparently won't face that prospect because they intend to pay the balance.


So, let's see here, eh? The feds thought they would have to sell land to pay the settlement, and required that it be sold to THEM? Kinda suspect, eh?
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:12 pm
@Glennn,
Glenn., please think anything that holds you snug in your cocoon. Would you indulge me and the rest of the readership by providing a link to court documents, and proof of payment regarding the fire on the peoples land. I might be off base, but I have a hard time believing those two tax cheats have settled their debt to the United States of America. Not to be unkind to freeloaders, but I am skeptical that either one of those bums plan to repay, and they can't make money in the slammer. So the debt was paid by you and me and anybody you think is my buddy. It's an outstanding debt, and when those arsonists are released, color me jaded but I will be happily shocked if they actually try to pay the judgement.

So, how many people who steal from the people of the United States actually pay us back? And what is the punishment for not abiding by the court ordered repayment? We don't have debtors prison, we don't execute them (of course not) and these freeloaders are not afraid to challenge the law and petition for additional hearings in perpetuity. These moochers don't have any shame or integrity, its not necessary any longer. Too many people think those who take responsibily for these criminal acts are suckers. You know it, and so do I. I think its despicable, whats your take?
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:17 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

glitterbag wrote:

I am incensed that moochers and lowlifes who refuse to pay taxes will set a fire ...


You don't care now if they're "poachers," you just dislike the Hammonds because they are "moochers" and "lowlifes," eh?

On what basis do you assert that they are "moochers?"

On what basis do you assert that they are "lowlifes?"

On what basis do you assert that they "refused to pay taxes?"


No answer from Glitter, yet, eh? Could this be just another routine case of foundationless slander by commies, I wonder?
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:20 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

So, Glitterbag can rest assured that he's not out any cash because of the Hammonds?

Here is what I read about the fine, and where I read it:

The Hammonds in late 2014 agreed to pay the federal government $400,000 to settle a lawsuit seeking to force them to pay more than a $1 million in costs for fighting fires they set. The Hammonds paid $200,000 right away and paid the rest Thursday.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html

[/quote)

Glitterbag is a she, mr. knowitall.
layman
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:21 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
I am skeptical that either one of those bums plan to repay


Of course you're "skeptical." Now, whatever you do, don't find out the facts. Just let your "skepticism" dictate your slander, eh?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:24 pm
@Glennn,
It doesn't and I will, but I fear you are still laboring under the mistaken impression that the line you have now quoted twice was mean't to reflect what I believe. It does not, but I won't bring it up again.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:27 pm
@Glennn,
So you aren't claiming the bill has been paid by the arsonists are you? And you haven't provided a link to anything that proves they paid. I'm waiting.

Who do you think paid for putting out the fire? Or do you think all the firefighters and the supplies bought for this effort are on hold and folks are content with waiting for their paychecks? Would you be willing to wait several years to be paid for your labor?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:31 pm
Quote:
"When you starting bringing in the terrorism act for God-fearing livestock producers in eastern Oregon, something is wrong," said Barry Bushue, a Multnomah County berry farmer and president of the Oregon Farm Bureau.

There's nobody in history who has gone to federal prison for burning a few acres of public property," said Melodi Molt, a Harney County rancher and former president of Oregon CattleWomen. "It's not right."

The Oregon Farm Bureau said the second prison term is "gross government overreach and the public should be outraged."

But at this point only President Obama can spare the Hammonds from serving their full sentence....

Bushue, the farm bureau president, noted Obama earlier this year commuted sentences for drug offenders.

"I hope the president looks as kindly on community members as he does with drug offenders," Bushue said.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html

Heh, good luck with THAT, eh? Drug offenders are just common criminals. They aint TERRORISTS who happen to own land that the federal government wants. But the Hammonds are, ya know?


0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:33 pm
@ehBeth,
I don't know much about the Hammonds and the details of their case. I didn't offer any opinions or statements about whether or not justice was served and I certainly don't know anywhere near enough to comment on the Hammonds as a family or as individuals.

I merely provided the WSJ editorial, but I will say it raises troubling issues.

I will say also that I have not often, if ever, found reason to believe the WSJ publishes blatant mistruths.

And further, I will say that I don't find it difficult in the least to believe that the BLM has been acting improperly as respects the Western lands.

There is a contingent within the government that believes that the feds should have control of as much land as possible to preserve it from capitalist exploitation. That some of the ranchers have a strong antipathy for a powerful, far-reaching federal government would, I believe, only make members of this contingent all the more willing and pleased to shaft them if they felt such was necessary for the good of the environment...and maybe even if it was totally immaterial to their policy goals.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:35 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Are you lumping the Hammonds and Bundy & Co together? None of the Hammonds have joined with Bundy in his occupation and, as ehbeth noted, they have disavowed and connection between Bundy and their situation.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:38 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

The BLM is reputed to have sold off the wild horses for meat and the land for fracking.


If they are selling federal land for fracking that puts a crimp in my theory that at least one of their motivations is a desire to play White Knight for the environment.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:41 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
admit that you are just a blowhard ridiculously telling OTHERS to "get their facts straight?"


Advice you'd do well to take. The fact is they were found guilty and they went to jail. The fact is they've condemned the militia building grab.

Sorry the facts don't fit your personal narrative, but there you have it.


Do you always feel that when a defendant has been found guilty and sentenced to jail that justice has perforce been served, and it's time to move on to another matter?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:44 pm
@glitterbag,
I'll ask you the same question as I asked bobsal. Do you always consider that a matter has been fairly and finally adjudicated when defendants are found guilty, or that even if there might be evidence that the matter wasn't decided fairly, that folks just need to get over it and move on?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:46 pm
Quote:
The arson fires lit by the Hammonds in 2001 and 2006 may have actually represented sensible land management, but the Hammonds lost the high ground by their failure to coordinate with the government agency managing the land they burned.

Prescribed fire is a tool used to improve wildlife habitat, increase land productivity, and control wildfire. The 2001 fire aimed at improving productivity, but the government says the ranchers didn’t bother informing the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) they planned to burn until two hours after they lit the fire. While they lit the fire on their own land, it escaped and burned 139 acres of federal land, but that burning probably did not do serious damage to the grassland, and they put the fire out themselves.

The 2006 fire was more questionable. A wildfire was burning on BLM land near the Hammond’s ranch, so to defend their land they lit a backfire on their own land. That would be standard procedure except, again, they didn’t tell anyone....Due to severe fire hazards, the county had a no-burn rule which the Hammonds apparently violated, but this was hardly a terrorist act.


http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/no-heroes-in-the-west-fire-feds-and-freeloaders/

I can't find a source which says who put out the second fire. But there seems to be a consensus that it saved the Hammonds necessary livestock feed, possibly their home, and was successful in limiting the spread of the ongoing fire they were trying to protect themselves against. Their big offense here seems to be that they didn't raise their hand and ask the teacher if it was OK to save themselves first, eh?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 10:49 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
Re: blatham (Post 6103190)
Not to be a smartass, but I think layman's reply to your citing the Dept of Homeland Security in which he, in turn, cited the FBI warrants a reply.

I don't take you for a smartass. But the fellow wilted off my radar days ago.


OK then, assuming I haven't wilted as well, let's together assume that I made the point about the FBI's report. I'm interested in your respond to it.
0 Replies
 
 

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