18
   

What Is Wrong With Christmas Customs?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 06:55 am
@anthony1312002,
What problem do YOU see in Christmas celebrations?

I am a-okay with them. After all, it's the most successful holiday ever invented. Even Jews and Muslims love it, reluctantly.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 07:41 am
@Ionus,
Taklagsfest - a roof laidparty -a party is a traditional feast which goes back to the time when neighbours helped building a house.
You thanked those who had helped building by making a big party there where the roof truss had been laid. You could also celebrate on flat earth - probably safer after drinking beer.
This feast was marked according to old tradition with a wreath or flag on the side of the house.
It has absolutely nothing to do with old gods or Christmastree.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 07:45 am
@saab,
Different types of wreath from different part of Sweden
https://entimmermansdagbok.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/taklagskrans.jpg

a Danish one
http://www.rejsegilde.nu/images/rejsegilde-krans-2.jpg
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 08:40 am
In the city of Detroit, consider that there's the Wreath of Franklin:
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 08:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I have doubts about every source. However, I have two sources that say trees were attached to ridge polls. One I provided that said it was to celebrate a house building and another (I am still looking for) that said the practice continued into early Christian conversion times for the celebration of Christmas. Then the tree went inside the house.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 08:14 pm
@saab,
Your insistence would be better backed by a ref, any ref. Like I provided as I assume your memory does not go back the roughly 1600 years. We are talking about the time of the Arian Christian conversion.
saab
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 01:32 am
@Ionus,
I have Årets Fester by Albert Eskeröd
a Swedish book about the historical Feasts during the year. Do you have it?
Can you read Swedish. Then I have Bonnniers Uppslagsbok 52 volumes also in Swedish and some sites on google also in Swedish.
Personally I also have some knowledge about the traditions in my cuntry.
I cannnot ref myself
We human beings as a rule do have knowledge about things without being able to all the time have a ref.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 01:48 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
However, I have two sources that say trees were attached to ridge polls.
Well, perhaps I can find some sources saying the same.

Any leftover of the past can be considered a source. We don't have those sources here, at least, no-one has found them until now (here).
So it is just said that the tradition of wreath (or 'trees') on houses goes back earlier than the one of Christmas trees.

A couple of years ago, the "Iron Time House" (Eisenzeitliche Haus) was reconstructed on the island of Amrum.

http://i66.tinypic.com/10nwzde.jpg

While a reconstruction of such a building is relatively easy, you don't know a lot of minor details. You 'guess' that using the known traditions.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2rptfl1.jpg
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 02:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter
what does Arian Christian conversion. mean. I tried to look it up, but that was not much of a help. Sounds like hords of Germans invaded Nordic countries.
I only know about Ansgar

"the territories of Northern Europe were gradually converted to Christianity under German leadership, and made into nation states under the Church's guidance, finalized in the Northern Crusades."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 02:50 am
@saab,
I have no idea - Arianism wasn't followed in my and your part of the world.
The Alemanni, however, followed it.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 02:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We usually do not talk about Ansgar as a German but being from Bremen and that he was Bishop of Hamburg-Bremen
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:22 am
@saab,
It's really quite difficult to call someone of those centuries German - Ansgar was educated in Corbie Abbey, in that wasn't in a "foreign" country, but is French since centuries.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:45 am
@saab,
Quote:
Personally I also have some knowledge about the traditions in my cuntry.
Yes, I'm sure you do. This is a forum in the english language. I would like a ref in that language. If you cant, then we will take you as saying it, for whatever that may be worth. What makes you think it was impossible to fix a tree to a roof and why do you think my ref is incorrect? It assumes you have perfect knowledge on those times.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:50 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
This is a forum in the english language. I would like a ref in that language.
We have to be awfully sorry, Ionus, that people here didn't write in those days in English here.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Arianism was before the fall of Rome, and just as society had the Dark Ages from volcanic activity, so the Pope referred to the Dark Ages as being surrounded by Arian bishops.

Quote:
In the 4th century, the early process of Christianization of the various Germanic people was partly facilitated by the prestige of the Christian Roman Empire among European pagans. Until the decline of the Roman Empire, the Germanic tribes who had migrated there (with the exceptions of the Saxons, Franks, and Lombards, see below) had converted to Christianity.[1] Many of them, notably the Goths and Vandals, adopted Arianism instead of the Trinitarian (a.k.a. Nicene or orthodox) beliefs that were dogmatically defined by the Catholic Church in the Nicene Creed.[1] The gradual rise of Germanic Christianity was, at times, voluntary, particularly among groups associated with the Roman Empire. From the 6th century, Germanic tribes were converted (or re-converted from Arianism) by missionaries of the Catholic Church.[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_Christianity
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:51 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
why do you think my ref is incorrect?
There is no reference to any original source ... and I really wonder, if that would have been in English.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Very Happy No need Walt, I accept translated text. You have an honest face.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 03:53 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Arianism was before the fall of Rome, and just as society had the Dark Ages from volcanic activity, so the Pope referred to the Dark Ages as being surrounded by Arian bishops.
And what does that say about where Arianism was followed?


(I think, btw, you gave me the advice not to use wikipedia as reference? (Isidor of Sevilla wrote a lot about Arianism but unfortunately Isidor didn't write in English either. [Nor those monks, who copied his writings.])
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 04:21 am
@Ionus,
What you want is a reference in English.
What I have done is to read up on the subject in a couple of Swedish books - not translated into English as far as I know. The one I like best is by Albert Eskeröd, he was a Swedish etholog and professor at Stockholm university,
He was also intendent at the Nordic museum. He was a specialist in the history of agriculture under 5000 years and cultur and boats
He has written 16 books.




0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2015 04:33 am
http://www.visitnynashamn.se/images/18.421534701375ce1f7f680007858/1365696513817/jarnaldershuset_sidbild1.jpg
There were roofs with straw
https://www.informationsverige.se/Svenska/Samhalle/PublishingImages/HistoriskaHusCB.jpg
with grass
http://www.campingferie.dk/campingbilleder/billeder/2007_bella_cf_11_116.jpg
and some even with seaweed
0 Replies
 
 

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