The rules are changing, we are going to start showing the assholes the door

@glitterbag,

When and if the website reprogramming go into effect you will likely end up with a lot of small and tight groups of like minded individuals that will be in black holes to the rest of us.

In the meantime we will get to enjoyed the wonderful world of informers and haters doing their things for Robert.

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@BillRM,

This site is now filled with small and tight groups of like-minded
individuals. How many long-running threads do you never bother to visit?
They don't care that they are black holes to the rest of us. I don't care
that they don't care. Why do you care?

The political and religious sects will seek out their opponents in the new
format, never fear. And hilarity -- as it always does -- will ensue.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

When and if the website reprogramming go into effect you will likely end up with a lot of small and tight groups of like minded individuals that will be in black holes to the rest of us.

In the meantime we will get to enjoyed the wonderful world of informers and haters doing their things for Robert.

Well, at least you're an optimist.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

. . . we will get to enjoy the wonderful world of informers and haters doing their things for Robert.

I'm tellin' . . .

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I really miss Merry Andrew, he was incredibly bright and awfully funny. I remember a response from him after I was ranting and raving about a ridiculous custom where a sitting president would pardon a turkey every Thanksgiving. He immediately responded that "it's just a professional courtesy, g'bag". Something tells me not everyone would be pleased with that response, but he made me laugh, he always made me laugh. God knows we need more of that. It's good for the soul or sole, depending on your belief system.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
. . . we will get to enjoy the wonderful world of informers and haters doing
their things for Robert.
I'm tellin' . . .

<snort>

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@Glennn,

Quote:

I'm tellin' . . .

LOL and people take note that Robert begin his new sheriff in town act by banning Hawkeye of all people.

As others was very fast to point out Hawkeye is hardly anywhere near the top of offenders list in that regard and yet Robert went out of his way to ban him.

Anyone here question that this banning was due to Robert dislike of Hawkeye not Hawkeye actions that at best serve as an excuses.

4 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

. . . Anyone here question that this banning was due to Robert dislike of
Hawkeye not Hawkeye actions that at best serve as an excuses.

If I could parse that, I'd answer it.

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@BillRM,

I don't know why you don't just fess up Bill. Hawkeye was the only one that would kinda hold your hand, now he's not here, there is no one who will do so.

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@BillRM,

I'm loath to respond here, but frankly you are so delusional (more so than typical) and misguided with criticism, I feel compelled.

This, to my eyes, clearly is the case on your part of hero-worship as Hawkeye is one of the few that tolerates your fractured English and fractured logic.

Quote:

...and people take note that Robert begin his new sheriff in town act by banning Hawkeye of all people.

Robert, in case you have forgotten, is not a new sheriff..he's the original and only sheriff. He doesn't need to throw his weight around..and is not doing so just for the hell of it. This was very deserved action and long in coming. The fact that Robert's become more active recently and taken action on Hawkeye is an action that is long overdue. Hawkeye has been one of the top reasons regular and not-so-regulars leave the site.

Such repeated bad behavior creates an atmosphere of unpleasantness and non-welcome to all. Because this has gone on to varying degrees for years, it is the function of moderators and/or the owner of the site to 'throw out the trash'. I consider it a job well done. It can and should be done whenever someone is so negative to the site that people leave in droves.

It is not the case of whether or not he had/has unpopular opinions..or played devil's advocate, was unpolitical or had political leanings in any certain direction. Very plainly stated, he made more than a few members flee the site with bad behavior. That is not how to promote the building of a community, to say the least. It makes sense for the health and growth of the community

The fact is Robert (and he stated the reason why he did so in his post) that Hawkeye made public a very ugly, unprovoked personal attack on a member using deliberately defamatory language due to the alternative lifestyle. Clearly against TOS.

Hawkeye did this and other behaviors repeatedly. At some point, after years of similar ugliness, not to mention whining and blisteringly harsh criticism of forum policies (past and present), etc., he was silenced. I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner. BTW, I'm not saying that his criticism and whining are what got him banned, by any means. Clearly, Robert has shown his immunity to that behavior. Robert, IMO, has shown he hasn't a think skin.

The site, with this event, is already improved.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I'm tellin' . . .

LOL and people take note that Robert begin his new sheriff in town act by banning Hawkeye of all people.

As others was very fast to point out Hawkeye is hardly anywhere near the top of offenders list in that regard and yet Robert went out of his way to ban him.

Anyone here question that this banning was due to Robert dislike of Hawkeye not Hawkeye actions that at best serve as an excuses.

Don't question it at all.

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@Robert Gentel,

My two bits worth:

I thought Max's posts on this general point were very good, and I thought Bob's acknowledgment and assessment of the nature of the problem was very good, also. For example:

Quote:

In my younger A2K years I put way too much stock in the "attacking the idea vs attacking the person" justification, but ultimately that self-serving notion does nothing to justify whether or not my tone in attacking the idea is justified or not.

Exactly.

Quote:

Ultimately trying to get it all covered top-down is the wrong approach. [It is best to] enable the community to let it work out more of it's own problems [and] let most of the issues you raise be sorted out between members...

I agree with this sentiment 100% also, but I have altered the wording slightly because, for reasons already stated, I disagree with this "remedy:"

Quote:

The blocking is what will enable...

Needless to say, Bob, it's your site and you can do whatever you want. I'm no programmer and have no clue how things are implemented technically, but I just see the "blocking" function as counter-productive. I have already stated some of my reasons for holding this belief, and it seems there must be better ways to address the problem.

As I see it, this will create more problems than it is designed to solve because, as you say:

Quote:

the blocking feature is like a per-user suspension tool

.

I agree that it is best for the users to be self-policing and any tools which help with that are worth considering. I just don't see a "per-user suspension tool" as being likely to accomplish that goal. As subjective as and divisive as "top-down" regulation can be, this is infinitely worse. It makes everybody a de facto admin and it does NOT merely affect the individual user. It can severely limit the ability of it's target to interact with EVERYBODY, not just the blocker.

It will be used as a tool for "revenge," control, petty spite, etc. by many who have no objective standards for its application.

I really don't understand all the "community" plans so I'm not addressing that aspect of it. I am talking about using (or not) this tool for trying to regulate "open" forums which I assume will remain. Blocking would create anarchy in those forums and virtually stifle legitimate discussion, I'm afraid, with the power to do that in the hands of some who deserve it least.

So my request would be to allow it in those "communities" which want it, but not in open forums.

2 Replies

@Ragman,

Absolutely and totally agree with you, Ragman.

Rather than me spout on here and waste more column space, here's my very similar thoughts posted back in April.

I made several rather serious posts on that page, but the second post of mine sort of encapulates my general feeling towards how so few people can have such a disproportionately negative affect on a2k.

http://able2know.org/topic/273271-11

All power to your elbow Robert. This is long overdue.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Quote:

This, to my eyes, clearly is the case on your part of hero-worship as Hawkeye is one of the few that tolerates your fractured English and fractured logic.

Sound like damn personal attack on not only myself but others with less then ideal writing styles so we all will need to wait to see how long it will be for Robert to placed you under ban.

Quote:

The fact that Robert's become more active recently and taken action on Hawkeye is an action that is long overdue. Hawkeye has been one of the top reasons regular and not-so-regulars leave the site.

I am sure you have statements from those who are no longer here stating that they had let the site due to Hawkeye?

Howabout just one such statement just to start with?

Quote:

not to mention whining and blisteringly harsh criticism of forum policies

An please let us all know what is wrong with harsh criticism of the webmaster?

The gentleman is setting up a playground situation of telling on each others and for an adult website that is not a pretty thing to do.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

The site, with this event, is already improved.

people not interacting with the removed poster is already improving the tone of the site

now to try and get back some of the old-skool lightheartedness you could sometimes find here

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@Lordyaswas,

Quote:

All power to your elbow Robert. This is long overdue.

You are right we need a war of telling on each others to Robert.

People are now talking of using google to dig up dirt on each other to used as weapons.

Yes such a situation is long long overdue.

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@BillRM,

Based on my desire to maintain a more positive contribution and light-hardheartedness, I've removed my comments. What I wrote has been written/said before and undoubtedly will be written again.

In lieu of that...

What I've put in its place is/are some dancing and singing birds:

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@Ragman,

Quote:

The fact is that you cannot distinguish between simple observations and an attack highlight another deficit..

As Bob noted:

Quote:

In my younger A2K years I put way too much stock in the "attacking the idea vs attacking the person" justification, but ultimately that self-serving notion does nothing to justify whether or not my tone in attacking the idea is justified or not.

I'm not saying that your response to Bill was particularly egregious, Rags, but I think it does highlight the subjective aspects of judging what is "appropriate." You made some "simple observations," sure, but your response was hardly limited to that, in my view.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Good theory that you had not broken Robert rules by your personal attacks.

Yes however we will have two classes those who are in good with the teacher and therefore will get away with such nonsense and the rest of us who do not share that closeness in fact do not have any wish to be close to Robert.

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@BillRM,

Hawkeye got banned for a very specific reason.

I don't know Robert personally, but I think I have read enough of his stuff over the years to not question his judgement. He's one of the most level headed people I've talked with on A2K. He didn't ban Hawkeye for any kind or personal vendetta or difference of opinion.

0 Replies

The rules are changing, we are going to start showing the assholes the door

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