The rules are changing, we are going to start showing the assholes the door

in this dream ... are there squirrels? or are there hamsters?

Neither. Just people.

Kinda, that vision was never completed and this is the evolution of it.

I've been wondering about that. I do recall that those forums didn't even show in "New Posts" if you weren't a member. I'm doubting they would be anywhere that private.

"Different communities will be able to set different privacy settings"
http://able2know.org/topic/305632-2#post-6083270

Hawkeye was suspended today when my attention was brought to a post where he referred to one of the gay members of this community as a "fag" etc. That kind of thing has always been against this community's rules and if you see that kind of slur being directed at any community member please report the post to the moderators.

Damn, I wasted a perfectly good 'ignore' on that douche. Assuming I can call someone a douche without being suspended.

That's not cool. But, unless you're hyper-sensitive to such transgressions, it seems to me that certain "esteemed" members here have done much worse by was of a relentless stream of profane and provocative insults, ridicule, and character attacks on some hapless party (often a newbie) who chances to disagree with them. Every attempt is made to degrade, demean, and humiliate them--apparently in a pre-emptive attack designed to assert dominance and obtain submission.

I don't know if you ever get complaints about this sort of behavior (I would never complain, but when I see it happen I generally confront the person doing it), but if so and you looked the other way, then your idea of an "asshole" is quite a bit different than mine, I guess.

I personally layman think you miss the point. My "opinion" ? Sure I've been here a while and I remember Hawks, being gentle in his replies as time goes by with the rif raf it changes and so, free for all say what you want. There is no excuse what so ever of calling a fellow member a fag, it's degrading, hurtful and down right wrong.

I hope Robert Gentel is taking the rains and cleaning up such hurt.

I don't mind Hawkeye, he has some good points but like I said, long standing do what you want results in abuse and abuse shouldn't be tolerated anywhere you have no idea where that can lead to, look at face-book bulling and suicide.

I do think that Hawk would not have thought about it, before he spoke but it was wrong as, I hope that others do from here, think, I am sick to death of the crap, name calling, belittling it's so childish and teenager crap ........................It's always been my stance.

This argument begs the question ("unless you're hyper-sensitive").

Bottom line is that slurs (and certain levels of vulgarity) were always not permitted. The line was loosened with the last site change, but there has never been a green light on using slurs directed at other members based on gender, religion, race or sexual orientation in this community and Hawkeye did not just say it once, he targeted a gay member and said it multiple times.

That being said this isn't a contest and there may well be other things you think are deserving of moderator action feel free to report them. Verbal abuse is not cool. If two parties are getting into it on their own we aren't necessarily going to babysit them but if someone is being verbally abusive to another member feel free to report it.

There is no claim that there is an absolutely perfect level of moderation on each and every post and we won't necessarily act on every report but feel free to report things you see (but do not report over and over just to try to make a point through volume).

Once again: the goal is not for moderators to moderate EVERY exchange.

I agree with layman. There are far more aggressive and intentionally personally attacking members here than Hawkeye, but they hold the majority political opinion, so they get away with their behavior.

It is Robert's right to do as he chooses, but I wish rather than say you're showing the assholes the door, you'd just say you're getting rid of the unpopular people.

The assholes are thriving.

Then report the posts you feel are "far more aggressive" etc. Nobody said the moderation is perfect. The notion that I am just getting rid of "unpopular" people is nonsense. Hawkeye violated a simple and clear rule (no slurs to other members based on their sexuality) and if anyone violates it they are out too.

Edit: Note that he was not suspended for "attacking another member" or being aggressive but specifically the slurs based on a member's sexuality. This cases are not just personal attacks but hate speech against protected classes that we do not tolerate.

And I agree with you.

So you think members should be able to direct such slurs at each other or merely that you think others have similar transgressions?

If the former, then I'm sure on the new platform there will be communities that tolerate slurs based on ethnicity, religion, gender or sexuality but A2K has not ever been one and is not going to be one.

If what you believe is the later, then please report them. Nobody claimed moderation here is perfect. It has always been understaffed and the community under-moderated, we are recruiting more moderators to do a better job at community management and have a long way to go.

Edit: or if you believe this is just politically motivated I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I could not care less about any of your politics. This is an intensely polarized community that tends to see everything that way but I have precious little interest in US politics right now or the political drama that this forum revolves around. As far as I'm concerned I'd like there to be more political balance here but more than anything else less US politics and more everything else.

The latter, but I've seen much more abusive members, though maybe they are better at avoiding specific tripwires.

Send the reports. Once again we aren't claiming the ability to moderate all things. I happened across a two posts so far today with Hawkeye using this slur about a member and took action because I want to clean up this forum from this level of discourse (edit: note that I didn't go looking for them either in his profile, I was browsing popular threads from this year and in one of the threads noticed a post from a member complaining about them and linking to the posts).

If you want to bring others to my attention then feel free to. Today I asked if you were willing to help moderate the community and you declined. That is, of course, your prerogative but is the core challenge A2K faces in this aspect, it needs help to do a better job at community management and I'm a few days into my personal push to try to point it north but it's limited by volunteer time.

You guys keep alluding to these worse individuals, PM me what you are talking about or report the posts. You can't expect me to read every single post and I've been away for years. I agree the moderation is not where it should be. But help, all the bitching about it does nothing to help the community unless it's paired with action to improve it.

Yes, such as layman--it has nothing to do with majority political opinions. As roger puts it, he skirts the rules. He is every bit as hostile and aggressive as he suggests others are.

I don't see how. The implication is that a single hurtful epithet is not as egregious as a sustained full-scale onslaught fraught with every variety of intentionally hurtful insult.

I don't know what all Hawk did or didn't do, so I'm not really addressing his case in particular. Obviously, some epithets are worse than others. But the vicious intent is much more apparent in the second case, to me anyway.

I'm probably in the minority, but I tend to see intent as much more important than the utterance of any particular word, per se.

That said, if the guy getting hit is my homey, and the guy getting kicked is my enemy, then I might see it the other way around.

It is inappropriate to bash a guy's face when it's uncalled for. But, in my book, it's not as bad as kicking him in the head with steel-toed boots a few dozen times after he already unconscious, know what I'm sayin?

I would also note that Lash complains about the alleged majority political opinion. First, that suggests that her focus is on politics. That could well be a case of looking at trees rather than the forest. Second, i don't see any reason to suggest that there is a dearth of conservatives here. (I'm assuming that she is equating the alleged majority opinion with "abuse" of conservatives, given that she identified herself as conservative in her first days here.) There are plenty of politically conservative members here among those who regularly post, and i see no good reason for this site to be characterized as "liberal" (an essentially meaningless term) or progressive (an hilarious term).

You are begging the question this way:

"Hypothetical examples xyx of abuse are worse than this slur, after all people who feel otherwise are hyper-sensitive."

It's circular logic.

In any case, it's your value judgement about what is worse but these slurs are also forbidden on A2K because they insult entire classes of people and it's not just about who is more aggressive to whom. Using these slurs pejoratively in general is itself untoward, putting aside the verbal abuse of a member it is denigration of a whole class of members in specific, protected, classes.

You may disagree with the protected nature of these classes (your racial caricature schtick suggests you might) but they are so for good reason and this has always been a founding principle of this community. The new platform will allow others to make their own. Hell they will be able to start a KKK forum if they so please but this forum does not allow that kind of slur.



I will have to take your word for it since so far EVERY single person complaining about moderating and saying that there is just much more egregious stuff out there has not told me a single example or even tossed out a general name. I can't be expected to read everyone's posts so not sure what your complaint is, show us the garbage you speak of.



Well he wasn't suspended for his intent but it was crystal clear and he was repeatedly calling a member he hated a "fag" while throwing in that he was an "idiot" etc. If you have worse examples put up or stop complaining about these hypothetical abuses you chide me for not righting.