US-American view on refugees

@Walter Hinteler,

Gotcha. Thanks. So the social situation isn't as bad as it appeared due to the false accusations - and that's good to know.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

I didn't want to compare the two. I don't think it's useful conversation to pit cultures against each other, but you totally neglected to mention that I cited alcohol - and you can add any other substance that seeks the same ends. I'm not pretending that frats are lovely cotillions. By the same token, I don't think we should avoid looking squarely at what's happening in Europe as a result of the influx of refugees, and asylum seekers, etc.

There doesn't have to be a boogey man.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

So the social situation isn't as bad as it appeared due to the false accusations - and that's good to know.

I think that the 'social situation' is bad.
We got more than 1,000 criminal offenses against homes of refugees. Among them nearly 200 arson attacks ... just two days ago, a hand granate was thrown against one ...

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@Lash,

Right . . . you don't think that we should look at a deploring cultural situation here--the rape culture--because that would undermine your thesis about how bad muslim refugees are. Your townhall source was peddling BS about what happened in Cologne in order to create the impression of a crisis situation, but you don't want to look at an ongoing crisis situation in the United States.

I'm not suggesting that we avoid looking at what has happened in Europe, but i am pointing out that it's much worse on American college campuses vis-à-vis the treatment of women. One of the reasons i'm confident in saying so is that the townhall article was willfully false about what happened on one extraordinary situation in Germany. The article was tendentious and alarmist, and intended to portray Europe as having a crisis situation which does not in fact exist. The situation with frat houses in the U.S. is a crisis situation, it does exist and it exists right now. It's a valid comparison because both situations are about the treatment of women in terms of sexual assault.

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@Setanta,

You are hyperbolizing my comment and introducing emotionalism and a false dichotomy to tilt the narrative away from questions about what is happening in Europe related to the massive influx of people from one culture into another.

I don't think your characterization of my thesis as trying to prove Muslims are bad is a fair statement.

I know it's an unpopular topic with certain people, but I'm not going to consider that topic off limits.

If you'd like a separate conversation comparing rape styles of different societies, that would be interesting.

Meanwhile, this article was really eye opening.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/03/this-is-a-radical-change-of-our-values-readers-on-denmarks-new-asylum-laws?CMP=twt_gu

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@Lash,

You posted that bullsh*t townhall article. Don't make snotty remarks to me about "styles of rape," nothing i wrote remotely leads in that direction. If you can't see how tendentious (you do know that word, right?) that article was, if you can't see how much a part of conservative narratives it is to slander muslims because they are muslims, as though they are the only dangerous people in the world, and that all of them are predictably dangerous . . . then i feel sorry for you.

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@Lash,

How come the article from the Guardian is a eye opener?
Twelve people were interviewed and all agree that the treatment of the refugees is not correct.
Where are the vocie of the others in Denmark. Denmark is very divived when it comes to Muslims in Denmark and the opinions of both sides should have been told.
How many that read the Guardian really know facts about Denmark?
How much do they know what the refugees cost per person, how much or how little Muslims who have been living in Denmark for up to 40 years are integrated in Denmark ?
This article is not good journalism. The article is not neutral.
The Gueardian is a liftliberal paper and it should also show where it stands, but here it is really onesided.

P.S. I read Danish papers every day.

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@saab,

Saab, just like I was gratified to get your account because you are experiencing this, I also appreciated these first person accounts.

I'm looking for more stories like these, but from the other perspective. Feel free to bring local articles around this issue.

1 Reply

@saab,

saab wrote:

Twelve people were interviewed and all agree that the treatment of the refugees is not correct.
Where are the vocie of the others in Denmark. Denmark is very divived when it comes to Muslims in Denmark and the opinions of both sides should have been told.

That struck me, too. CBC radio did a long and fairly well-balanced report on this when the legislation was first moved in the Danish legislature. They spoke to people on both sides of the issue.

The Guardian article is also tendentious. It's bias is a "liberal" bias.

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@saab,

It really should be noted that it is a comment, published by and in the Guardian.

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@Walter Hinteler,

A lot of (European and well as other) media mocked about pig being part of the Danish culture. (Pork as part in Europe's culture wars)

But actually, it is. Even more: it has a history ... see: Danish Protest Pig.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Now from a report (sic!) in another "left-leaning-liberal" UK-paper:
Most Britons support Denmark-style law to take valuables away from refugees

Quote:

Danish politicians passed a new law at the end of January which allows border officials to seize cash and assets from would-be asylum seekers to help pay for their stay.

Opponents said the law amounted to a “symbolic move to scare people away”, while the UN warned Denmark risked “fuelling fear and xenophobia”.

But according to a new YouGov poll, 54 per cent of Britons would either support or strongly support a similar law in the UK.

Only 8 per cent of respondents said they strongly opposed the idea, which has been compared to the Nazi-era policy of stripping valuables from Jews.

And bizarrely, the policy was actually much more widely supported in Britain than it was by people surveyed in Denmark itself. According to YouGov, of 1,002 Danes surveyed 39 per cent opposed their own new law, while 38 per cent supported it.

In an indication of how opinions have shifted in Germany in recent weeks, more than 60 per cent of people there said they would be in favour of taking away refugees’ valuables. Just 18 per cent of Germans opposed such a move.

Of seven European nations surveyed, Sweden was the country where people where most likely to be against such a law – 44 per cent opposing it, versus 41 per cent supporting.

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@Lash,

In October 2015 refugees in Sweden cost about 3,2% of the state budget.
Expected costs for 2016 will be 6,4% of the state budget. It is the same amount as the hospital costs.

In Denmark the cost 2015 was 0.2% of the state budget.
One refugee in Denmark cost about 200 000 Danish crowns a year which is about $ 30 000. This is a single person. Add a family member the amount will grow with a few thousands a year.
It takes at leastt three years until a refugee can start working - all depending on the level of education.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

It takes at leastt three years until a refugee can start working - all depending on the level of education.

I wonder if this is why the Danish bill requires them to wait three years before bringing in family members.

1 Reply

@saab,

saab wrote:

One refugee in Denmark cost about 200 000 Danish crowns a year which is about $ 30 000. This is a single person.

In Germany, it's a lot cheaper: 1,000 € ($ 1,100; 7,600 DKK)
300€ pocket money, food etc; 290€ costs for social worker, administration, security guard etc; 220€ health insurance; 190€ costs for room (Example taken from my hometown - it differs from state to state)

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@Setanta,

As far as I can find out there are at the moment 21 500 jobs in Denmark
There are 176 ooo Danes out of work-
There are 263 800 Muslims from 69 different countries (and 2006 there were 115 moschees) in Denmark.
Within 3 years they are going to get an education, learn Danish and find a job.
So far the experience has been that first generation including man and wife 85% do not work and second generation 50% do not woek.

1 Reply

@saab,

saab wrote:

There are 263 800 Muslims from 69 different countries (and 2006 there were 115 moschees) in Denmark.

How did you get those numbers? I'd thought, it is not legal to register individuals’ religious affiliation in Denmark.

And there are really 115 moschees (mosques) in Denmark? Even with a larger Muslim population here in Germany, we don't have many (which often is reasoned in building laws > dome and minaret can't be built everywhere).

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

From this article
http://politiken.dk/indland/politik/folketingsvalg2015/ECE2697086/vi-ser-dobbelt-saa-mange-muslimer-som-der-reelt-er/
from 2nd of June 2015
The article tells that the Danes think there are about half a million Muslims in Denmark as they are mentioned all the time but there are half as many.

The amount of moshees I found in another article but certainly I not interested in again go thru about 10 articles to find that just because you doubt what I said.
Politiken is a leftliberal newspaper and amongst the three largest in Denmark.

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@saab,

Thanks.

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@saab,

Fond some more information
The first mosque built 1967 for Ahmadiyya - it is Scandinavian, but is in Denmark Hvidovre
The first larger Danish mosque was built 2014 and is in Copenhagen for sunnimuslims. It is 5.042 m2 not including parkingarea.
The third one also in Copenhagen is for shiamuslems and is 3.500 m2 and opened up 1. of October 2015
Moskéerne i Danmark kan ifølge religionsforsker Lene Kühle fra Aarhus Universitet deles op i tre grupper[3]:
Mosques in Denmark can be divided up the three groups according to religonexpert Lene Kühle from Aarhus University.
Layman mosques. There are about 59 in Denmark and between 2.400 to 400o come for friday prayer
Oraganistionmosques is Danish part of an international organistion.
Tshere are 37 and about 6000 comes for friedayprayer
And there are 7 Sheikh mosques and about 5000 comes for friday prayer
Lægmandsmoskéer er som navnet antyder moskéer, der ledes af lægmænd. Der er omtrent 59 af dem og de samler mellem 2.400 og 4.000 ved fredagsbønnen.[Kilde mangler]
Organisationsmoskéer er moskéer, der er en dansk afdeling af en international organisation. De er organiseret med formand og bestyrelse. Der findes 37 og de samler ca. 6.000 ved fredagsbønnen.[Kilde mangler]
Sheikh-moskéerne er moskéer, hvor en imam eller sheik både leder moskéen og udtaler sig til pressen. De ledes af Mohammed Albarazi og Abdul Wahid Pedersen i København; Abu Bashar i Odense. Der er syv og de samler op til 5.000 mennesker ved fredagsbønnen.[Kilde mangler]

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US-American view on refugees

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