Attacks in Paris Stadium, concert hall

That's a good point.

Compare to ISIS he is a damn saint.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/17/456361418/watch-a-french-father-tries-to-explain-the-attacks-to-his-young-son?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

:-))

What a lovely daddy.

The match between England and France at Wembley went off without a hitch.

Assad's narrative is that he is fighting terrorists. He let all the terrorists out of prison to further that narrative. And as long as he is in charge the wealthy gulf states will fund opposition, any opposition.



http://www.newsweek.com/how-syrias-assad-helped-forge-isis-255631

Assads narrative is that anyone who is fighting the government is a terrorist. So by his definitions he is fighting the terrorists.

No, we have gotten to the point where the proxie war in Syria is hurting everyone. A truce will be called, we just dont know the terms yet. Assad could stay, though I expect he will be given a golden parachute and he will accept it, but only if a viable alternative can be found, which so far is nowhere in sight.

I'm reading along and agreeing with, or if not agreeing, seeing people's points of view. I'm a lifetime anti bomb person and am not about to switch now, but am intrigued by the complexities. Easy for me to say, presently far away in the land of the Manhattan project.

Everyone? You mean white people. It's not impacting too much on the Gulf states, their biggest headache are the Shia majority in Bahrain and the Shia rebels in Yemen. And if Assad, pro Shia, pro Iran, stays in power, they'll have a problem with that too.

this is scary

BillRM wrote:

"...wiping them off the face of the earth with overwhelming force..."

Wiping who off the face of the earth? Are you aware that nearly all (and possibly all) of the Paris attackers were French or Belgian nationals living in France and Belgium? There are lots of Muslim radicals in Germany & other European countries too. Shall we invade and occupy Europe?

Here's a practical idea: lets invade and occupy Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, Chechnya, the Central Asian republics, Pakistan, Afghanistan (whoops, already there, sort of), North Africa, and every other country and region that sends foreign fighters and suicide bombers to help ISIS and al Qaeda and their affiliates and allies. Don't forget the country that sent the largest absolute number of suicide bombers to blow up American troops during the Iraq war as well as 15 of 19 of the 9/11 hijackers: Saudi Arabia. There's a lot of them in Jordan too. Lebanon. Egypt. I can go on and on.

Never mind that terrorists can operate in cells from any country without military bases, tanks or military infrastructure of any sort, or even ownership of land.

Never mind that every guerrilla war is a training ground for these militants, who get better over time and share tactical techniques: Afghanistan under both Russian and American occupation, Chechnya, Iraq under American occupation, Lebanon under Israeli occupation, and now Syria.

Never mind that the American public has a low tolerance for casualties in foreign wars in third world countries involving insurgent groups that pose no existential threat to the United States.

Never mind that we just tried this in Iraq for nine years, using close to 200,000 troops at peak. Never mind that we can't stay there forever and there's always someplace else where we're not and they are.

Why not let Iran and Hezbollah and now Russia have the delightful experience of protracted asymmetric warfare with terrorist reprisals? Enjoy your Vietnam.

What happened in France was a crime. A few guys with semi-automatic rifles (so far as I can tell) did a drive-by. For twenty minutes. Along one short, nearly linear stretch. Without changing vehicles. Then they went into a crowded music hall, where the police left them largely unmolested for nearly three hours, while they shot the patrons in impulsive spurts.

That's a serious crime that requires a serious, continuing, properly funded, well trained, legally empowered, specialized law enforcement response that takes intelligence gathering,information sharing, and SWAT teams that can be deployed quickly as soon as first reports come in.

That's the best and only solution to the kind of terrorism that involves weapons anyone can get used by individuals willing to die to carry out an attack. France claims it doesn't have enough resources to watch all the guys on its watch list. How can it possibly watch the whole French border? Besides, the criminals are already there.

No. Supporting Assad would be like supporting Hitler. Some things just can't be done.

Olivier5 wrote: " Sure, and 9/11 was a CIA plot... Yada yada yada. All this is paranoid delirium."

What paranoia? All I said was that the Paris attackers were armed and behaved like amateurs. Are you familiar with the Oklahoma City bombing that blew away the entire face of the Murrah federal building? That was done by two or three guys, working on a budget. ISIS knows how to build bombs like that and proves it by setting them off all the time in Syria. They've got munitions coming out of the wazoo and years of practice to hone their skills. Have you ever seen one of their suicide bomber videos? They don't just fizzle and smoke or just kill the bomber. Do you really think that a group with the resources, expertise and manpower of Islamic State couldn't pull off a serious bombing if they had that as the priority for their organization? Do you know what the Irish Republican Army did, in London, with a lot less to work with?

I'm sure they eat it up and encourage it. I'm not at all convinced they planned and executed it. That would have been a great propaganda opportunity to fly the ISIS flag or banners, and make a fine speech on television in exchange for letting some of the hostages go (the women). And if there's one thing ISIS does well it's PR propaganda. Not one word of identification from the attackers, though they did tell the police it was revenge for French bombing of Syria.

You have to admit they seem to prefer the "PR" and propaganda value in beheading their captives, don't you?

BillRM wrote: "Oh, the idea of a Japanese empire was wiped out, the idea of a German control world was wiped out and the idea of the CSA was wiped out all by sheer force."

Don't forget that the Russians caused the bulk of German military casualties and armor destroyed, at a cost of 27 million military casualties. Don't forget that it took TWO atomic bombs before Japan surrendered. Don't forget that the Allies occupied both countries for decades.

Don't forget that nearly 200,000 western troops in Iraq didn't end the nine year war until the local Sunni tribal leaders were convinced to change sides. Don't forget that France, led by Charles de Gaulle put 400,000 troops in Algeria and had 180,000 local militiamen to help them, but in the end gave the insurgents what they wanted and got the heck out of Dodge. Don't forget that Ronald Reagan pulled American troops out of Lebanon in response to the suicide bombing of the Marine barracks. Don't forget that the USSR lost in Afghanistan and left. Don't forget that in Lebanon, Hezbollah did to Israel what the combined Arab national armies failed to do (sevetal times).

They prefer all kinds of PR propaganda. Remember all those slow motion tank shots with reverse video that CNN so helpfully disseminated? You Tube is full of their stuff.

As for threats against the United States, they're always doing that and have done ever since we started bombing them. That's when the beheadings of the western hostages began, too. The Russian plane was bombed after they came to Syria. The bombing of Hezbollah neighborhoods in Beirut followed their involvement in Syria on the side of Assad.

Getting back to threats against America, I repeat, those have gone on for quite a while without follow-up. Don't forget also that every yahoo fighting for ISIS can put a video on You Tube shaking his finger and threatening to see us in Washington. The IS leadership doesn't discourage it.

Unlike al Qaeda, IS is fighting the near enemy, not the far enemy. Google those terms. But like any cornered rat, they'll bite.

It don't matter one little bit about your theory about near enemies or far enemies such a movement should not be allowed to exist for longer then it take to move an airborne division or two to the city of Raqqa.

You're watching too many movies. Those guys are only human. They were spotted befofe they could enter the stadium, that's all. No need to start fantacizing...

I'm a big fan of non-violence but it only works on people with a minimum of moral fiber. The Gandhi approach would not have worked with the nazis, and i don't see how it could work on IS.