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Unfit for Command

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 02:55 pm
I hope Mr. Thurlow has enough passion to return his medal.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 03:01 pm
A principled man, I'm certain he will.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 03:31 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Quote:
Kerry should forget about Vietnam and stick to stuff he's good at.

I must take exception to that comment.
Kerry was in fact very good at Vietnam.
See the museum that recognizes Kerry for his greatest accomplishment for Vietnam:
Vietnam Hall of Fame
...where "a photograph of John Kerry hangs in a room dedicated to the anti-war activists who helped...win the Vietnam War."...


re: the photo of Kerry in 1993 in Vietnam.

When did Kerry and McCain go to Vietnam to negotiate the return of POW remains? Wasn't that in the early '90's?

Wouldn't THAT be when the picture was taken? While he was there investigating reports of soldiers that had been left behind and to get the remains of our lost soldiers sent home?

Let them post that picture if they like. The truth is that it was Kerry and McCain that made sure we didn't have soldiers in camps still. It was Kerry and McCain that helped mend the relationship between the US and Vietnam.

Sounds like a hero to me.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 04:05 pm
I thought it was Chuck Norris and Sylester Stallone?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 04:18 pm
you right wing soldier wanna bes will stick to you guns and keep hold of this issue long after it's been shot down....you're hilarious.....
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 05:16 pm
squinney wrote:


Let them post that picture if they like. The truth is that it was Kerry and McCain that made sure we didn't have soldiers in camps still.


It was Kerry who went there with the agenda to prove there were no american POW's, even if there was.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 05:39 pm
Quote:
It was Kerry who went there with the agenda to prove there were no american POW's, even if there was.


Dumbest thing I've read today.
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 07:48 pm
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 08:46 pm
This is interesting....

Quote:
Guess what? It is for an action that took place in 1969, but it is signed by Secretary of the Navy John Lehman. Strangely, Lehman was secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987," he noted.
"How could Kerry have received a citation from an official that would not be in office for 12 years? This was NOT just a case of providing a new copy of a citation for the office to replace one that was lost (destroyed/thrown over a wall). This effort by Lehman & Kerry actually changed Kerry's official Navy record, sometime in the 80s," he continued.

"What other portions of his record did Kerry have Lehman sanitize or spiffy up? Evidently, Kerry did not think his original Silver Star made him look 'heroic' enough, so he provided 'suggested' words for a new certificate. This certainly calls Kerry's entire Navy record into question."


Source
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 12:08 am
That's pretty heavy...
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 07:21 am
More on the mysterious 1980's John Lehman signed silver star award posted on Kerry's web site.

Quote:


Source
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 07:53 am
Heavy and getting heavier and the mainstream media is clearly AWOL on this one, as they were on the Clinton scandals until the pressure on the internet simply got to be too much for them.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 07:58 am
But since Kerry has finally cracked it can no longer be ignored by the media.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 08:01 am
Kind of like having P. T. Barnum running for president, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 08:17 am
I think Kerry is very vulnerable to a direct question about this in one of the debates. There are so many points that Kerry is extremly exposed, that if the media were unfriendly to him he wouldn't get 35% of the votes.

If what the man says about himself leaves you with a pair or more of very stark choices, the decision is pretty easy. Let's take a look at what John Kerry said about himself in 1971 on Meet the Press, shall we?

Quote:
There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 caliber machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages*. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.


Now let's apply the "Liar, Lunatic or Lord" argument to this. If what Kerry is saying is not true, and he knows so, he is simply a liar and should never be considered for any elective office. If he doesn't know he's lying, he needs to be in a place where he can get help instead of running a campaign where hangers on reinforce his need to believe his own lies.

If what Kerry says is true, he is a war criminal and should be tried by an international court after he receives punishment for violating *Article 926.126 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. His "higher ups" should be separately investigated, but since they no doubt deny his accusations, we need to assume them innocent until proven guilty. Kerry, however, has confessed and must be brought to justice. If he confessed just to get his "higher ups" in trouble with stories not backed up by after action reports, that's hardly admirable either.

When you make bold claims about yourself, you should keep the goal in mind: make yourself look good. Make sense? There really is no room, based on Kerry's own words, for him to be a good man or a brave war hero who was just following orders. He is a liar, a lunatic or a war criminal. Based on his own words, John Kerry deserves to at least be out of the public eye for everyone's sake and maybe even in prison for war crimes.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 09:07 am
It's obvious that Kerry has grossly exaggerated his Vietnam record. It's also obvious that Kerry spent over 4 years using Vietnam as "his tool" to smear millions of honorable serving Vietnam veterans and advance a political career.




Quote:
Veteran shares perspective on Kerry story


Guest View

Doug Regelin

Special to The Augusta Free Press





The new version of Sen. John Kerry's Cambodia experience is also not true.

Sen. Kerry patrolled from An Thoi on the 94 boat and also from Cat Lo on the 44 boat. There was no way to enter Cambodia from the An Thoi patrol area. That patrol area started at the coastal fishing village of Ha Tien and ran parallel to the Cambodian border, but there was no way into Cambodia. Any good map will show this to be true.

From the Cat Lo patrol area around Sa Dec, it would have been possible for a boat to enter Cambodia, except there were concrete barriers, river-assault group boats and PBRs guarding the entrance.

Anyone entering Cambodia at that location would have known with complete certainty what they were doing.

It just never happened. Sen. Kerry is not being truthful, and it can be easily proven by interviewing his own selected band-of-brothers. The claim that there were so many rivers and canals, and that no one knew where they were, is ludicrous. We had detailed maps and overlays that showed everything right down to movements in fishing stakes.

I drove a swift boat for a year in 1969, and I still remember all the patrol areas.

Also, a single swift boat never went anywhere alone. It would have been way too dangerous. A second cover boat would have gone along. That means the crew of that boat would have also known they were going into Cambodia. Where are the crew members and officer of the cover boat?

Again, it just didn't happen.

Why has the old media let this slide? Sen. Kerry will say anything if it suits his personal political agenda. His Cambodia lie is just like his atrocity lie when he came back. They served his political purpose when he said them, but neither is true.

I'm not a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which can be verified. I also will not vote for either Bush or Kerry because I'm anti-war. I don't think we should be in Iraq. However, I am for the truth.


Source
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 10:55 am
BBB
The Media is finally exposing the disgusting smear again Kerry by the Bushies:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31752&highlight=
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 04:35 pm
Gonna post this neat graph from the NYT that Blatham posted elsewhere here, too ...

Now to me, the top half aint that important - of course the ad is co-financed by Bush allies, and its not so difficult to connect people to each other when it comes to political circles. Whats most relevant to me is the summary of the SBVFT's contradictions in the bottom half.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820swift_graph.gif
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 04:39 pm
Also from another of the threads here about the SVFT I want to bring one of the posts ... it makes a really good point about O'Neill.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
o.k. i'm not a dem, and not particularly liberal. voted repl in the presidentials 70's thru the late 80's. so don't go r/w on me.

what i see of the swifties is this; this is a very old feud between o'neill and kerry. having read the transcript of the '71 cavett debate between the two (on the swiftboat site), i noticed that o'neill made not one allegation against kerry's citations or p/h's. his entire complaint was with kerry's anti-war activity following his return to the states.

if, as he claims, he is telling the truth about kerry's citations, why wait 34 years to bring it up? considering his claim to have replaced kerry on the boat, wouldn't he have known about the allegations in '71? wouldn't he have used them to undermine kerry's position then? i sure as hell would have.

so why did o'neill wait till now to put this bunch together?

could it be, umm... P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S ??

[..] these guys are playing a very stupid and dangerous game. they have now opened the door to question every single citation ever awarded to any soldier. and that probably means a lot of you reading this right now.

and here's something else to think about. kerry could have avoided any service and vietnam in particular. using the same deferments that kept cheney, ashcroft, delay and, yes, clinton, et al cozy and safe at home. or even the national guard sidestep that worked so well for quayle and bush jr.

but he didn't. he volunteered for 2 tours of duty. and the idea that he went just to pad his resume is silly. would you step in front of a bullet just to get a job?

[..] bottom line; bush in 1968-69 - tejas. kerry in 1968-69 vietnam.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2004 07:48 pm
Does anyone actually think that the Swift Liars and the GOP aren't standing side by side spewing their sewage all over our democracy?

Well, put that little myth to bed.

Quote:
Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly denied coordinating attacks with the anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting a rally in Gainesville for the group.

A flyer being distributed at the Alachua County Republican party headquarters, which doubles as the Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters for the county, promotes a weekend rally sponsored by "Swift Boat Vets for Truth, Veterans for Bush, Alachua Bush/Cheney Committee," and others.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/images/pr/swiftboat.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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