Unfit for Command

The medals he rejected and symbolically threw away? The same heroics that he decried in the time following his return from the war?

I would not begrudge Kerry his service. He served valiantly and he should be proud of his service. But, what has he done to prove himself in the 30 years since?

How about showing me where I posted any of this as 'truth' other than the fact that its out there and my opinion that, if true, the story will have legs?

Are you suggesting that nothing in the news should be posted on A2K unless it is verified beyond question that it is the truth? Would you want to put all your posts to that test?

Did you read where his compatriots feel that based on his service in Vietnam he is unfit for command?

McGentrix wrote:

Did you read where his compatriots feel that based on his service in Vietnam he is unfit for command?

Keep it up, McG. If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

Oh boo hoo, Foxfyre. You make these kinds of unqualified statements and then, when someone challenges you, you start crying that you were only stating "opinions." Well opinions can be just as false as statements of fact, and, in this case, they are demonstrably false

"When the 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' launched its campaign against John Kerry 10 days ago, leadership and guidance were provided by Republican activists and presidential friends from Texas -- notably Houston attorney John E. O'Neill and corporate media consultant Merrie Spaeth.

"On closer inspection, the ostensibly nonpartisan 'Swift Boat Vets' seem to have another pair of significant sponsors with deep and long-standing Republican connections in Missouri. Both are officers of Gannon International, a St. Louis conglomerate that does lots of overseas business in, of all places, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

"Ties to Gannon can be traced via the Swift Boat Vets Web site ... On April 14, the site was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, Gannon's information technology manager, at 11301 Olive Boulevard in St. Louis, the firm's headquarters address. Although Waterman wouldn't discuss why he had set up the Web site, he didn't deny that his boss, Gannon president and CEO William Franke, had asked him to do so.

"'The information about my client is confidential,' said Waterman. He acknowledged knowing, however, that his boss Franke is a Navy veteran who served in Vietnam on swift boats. Gannon vice president Stephen D. Hayes, who oversees the company's office in Alexandria, Va., is likewise a swift boat veteran who first met Franke when they served together in the Mekong Delta."

"What is most intriguing about Franke, Hayes, and Gannon -- especially in light of their apparent role in the campaign against John Kerry -- are their strong commercial interests in Southeast Asia. While Gannon is a highly diversified holding company whose divisions range from real estate in Florida and Missouri to Internet technology and software, it maintains an unusual presence in Vietnam, with offices in both Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Indeed, Gannon has operated in that country's tourism, real estate and import-export sectors for a decade. (The target market for its tours was fellow Vietnam veterans.)

"None of Gannon's profitable activities in the communist republic would be possible, of course, without the approval of the Hanoi government, which Franke has described as 'strong' and 'stable.' Nor would Gannon be conducting business in Vietnam without the Clinton administration diplomacy, assisted by Sen. Kerry, that established diplomatic and trade ties with the United States in 1994. Franke first began traveling to Vietnam on behalf of Operation Smile, an American charity that provides plastic surgery to children abroad. The relationships he established during those humanitarian missions provided a considerable advantage in doing business under government auspices.

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

Your own posts indicate that you don't even give a **** about truth vs falsehood, Joe. If a statement supports the demmunist cause and party, it's good, otherwise it's bad, and the question of truth or falsehood is pretty much irrelevant. How else would anybody interpret your statements on the subject of Jim McDougal?

Quote:

"My name is Steve Gardner. [..]

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

3. Aren't you nothing more than Republican loyalists who happen to be veterans?

No. Among us are Democrats, Republicans and Independents. We are acting solely as Vietnam veterans who served in Swift Boats.

5. How can I join Swift Boat Veterans for Truth?

The organization consists of, and is limited to, former military officers and enlisted men who served in Vietnam on U.S. Navy Swift Boats or in affiliated commands. Veterans can e-mail [email protected] for more information on joining or adding their names to the list of signatures to a letter to Senator Kerry demanding full disclosure of his military records.

16. Are you working or involved in any way with the Bush/Cheney campaign or any other Republican organization?

Absolutely not. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a non-partisan organization. As part of our mission, we believe it is incumbent on ALL presidential candidates to be totally honest and forthcoming regarding personal background and policy information that would help the voting public make an informed decision when choosing the next president of the United States.

The organization was created, organized and funded by swift boat veterans who joined together to defend a common cause. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accepts donations from individuals and groups as a 527 organization.

Wow! This does present a dilemma.

Who should I believe?

On the one hand, we have all the guys who actually were on the same boat with Kerry, each of whom credits Kerry with saving his life. One of this group gave a major speech at the convention telling of Kerry's bravery and leadership. All the remaining living crew mates of Kerry's showed up in support of his candidacy.

Or, a group of guys, lead by John O'Neill, who never served with Kerry, who had some kind of epiphany 35 years later and decided to trash him.

One of these groups has more credibility than the other and even a righty should be able to figure out who's who.

The right wing is so desperate for an issue that they have begun to just make stuff up. If they only put the same energy into a dispassionate examination of the Bush record, Kerry would win by a landslide.

What agenda would Kerry's crewmates--those who were there on the boat with him--have other than telling the truth?

Though it wasn't all that big a deal, it has already been proved that Kerry lied about the ribbon/medal throwing episode. It was no big deal other than it showed he will lie for political expediency.

So what is it about him that makes you so sure he is telling the truth about the other especially when all but one or two who were on the boat with him say he's making it up?