Foxfyre wrote:Yes, I have conceded these two; however it is reported that both were initially opposed to Kerry and agreed to support him at the convention after some arm twisting. Apparently in the book to come out in September, at least 11 others who served on Kerry's boat are testifying that it just wasn't the way he's presenting it now.
To cut this short:
- there are not just two, but
at least four former crewmen alive to speak well of Kerry (and in addition the two fellow swiftboat commanders);
- the 11 others you mention were, as Mesquite pointed out in his/her post,
not actually people "who served on Kerry's boat" - they were skippers from other boats.
In fact,
Michael J. Bowers of The Star points out:
"Of the 10 living crew members who served directly with Kerry, only Gardner opposes Kerry."
For his June 20 article, he spoke with "Jim Wasser of Kankakee, who served on the same deck as Kerry". Also not on the Vets for Truth picture.
Quote:Wasser is an electrician in Kankakee and a member of the District 111 school board. During the war, he was fluent in all three Vietnamese dialects. He's also outrageously likable.
I met Wasser on Memorial Day at the Veterans Home in Manteno, where he delivered a few moving comments.
Then, we drove to his house in St. Anne. I had a list of questions, but immediately forgot all about them. We just yakked for two hours.[..]
Eventually, our conversation turned to Kerry.
"I respect him, because he listened to us," Wasser told me. "He was never an egomaniac. He relied on us to break him in. It didn't take long to form a bond.
"I don't judge him by his awards. I found him easy to talk to. This is from my head and my heart. He was not aloof and standoffish. He is an ironman. He possessed and displayed the qualities to be president. [..] I'm talking straight: He always put his men's welfare first, and was tough, tough, tough. He was a great leader." [..]
For now, I will just let our Kankakee neighbor Jim Wasser have the last word:
"John Kerry is the veteran's veteran," Wasser says. "He had a presence. I trusted him then, and I trusted him now. He made good, sound command decisions. We lost no one.
"I want someone for president who is tested, and this man is tested.
"John Kerry is a proven commander."
(post edited to replace "at least six former crewmen" by "at least four former crewmen [..] and in addition the two fellow swiftboat commanders")
As I have stated how can a man that criticized and slandered the reputations of fellow soldiers now claim glory for a war he didn't agree with? He has said himself that he has committed war crimes and had seen others commit the same crimes. Why didn't he report the crimes at the time they happened? How come none of the people he had testified with him never signed depositions to the fact that these things occurred? It just strikes me as odd that someone is going to claim glory for something they hate is only doing it for political reasons. It is continued flip-flopping on Kerry's part.
Yeah - you go out to fight a war for your country, battle through harrowing fights every day, and becoming ever more disillusioned with what you realise is a hopeless, senseless war, you speak up about what you've seen when you come back home - thats flip-flopping, sure. What else could you call it, huh.
One of the men who does not show up in the "Veterans for Truth" picture - no wonder, since Mesquite nicely pulled up that the people the VfT have been talking with
didn't actually serve on the same boat with Kerry - is Reverend David Alston. He
recounted his Vietnam experiences at the Convention:
Quote:There were six of us aboard PCF-94, a 50-foot, twin-engine craft known as a "Swift Boat." We all came from different walks of life, but all of us-including our skipper, John Kerry-volunteered for combat duty. And combat is what we got.
We usually patrolled the narrow waterways of the Mekong delta, flanked on both sides by thick jungle. As our crewmate Gene Thorson put it, we were a traveling bulls-eye. And we often came under sudden attack from the enemy, hidden in the shadows. Machine-gun fire, rocket-propelled grenades, it all came fast and furious, and Lieutenant Kerry had to make quick, life-or-death decisions for the entire boat. [..]
Manning the deck guns, most of us got wounded sooner or later, including Lieutenant Kerry. It would have been easiest, in an ambush, to simply rake the shore with return fire and roar on down the river to safety. But Lieutenant Kerry was known for taking the fight straight to the enemy. I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos.
Once, he even directed the helmsman to beach the boat, right into the teeth of an ambush, and pursued our attackers on foot, into the jungle. In the toughest of situations, Lieutenant Kerry showed judgment, loyalty and courage. Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
And when the shooting stopped, he was always there too, with a caring hand on my shoulder asking, "Gunner, are you OK?" I was only 21, running on fear and adrenaline. Lieutenant Kerry always took the time to calm us down, to bring us back to reality, to give us hope, to show us what we truly had within ourselves. I came to love and respect him as a man I could trust with life itself.
The Reverend grew up in Rock Hill, South Carolina. The local
Herald looked up his aging mother:
Quote:"David joined the Navy," Alston said. "He didn't have to. My daughter, Ida Mazetta, wanted to go to college. He told me that the only way we could afford it was for him to join up and save some money."
Ida Mazetta went to college. David Alston went to Vietnam and got shot in the head and shoulder, his mother said.
He lived and came home to Boyd Hill and his sweetheart, Lunice Lowery. They married and had two sons. Alston worked at a box factory, then managed the Wendy's restaurant on Cherry Road. [..] Alston, who grew up attending Mount Hebron Baptist Church, became an ordained minister in the mid 1990s and preaches part time. Lunice died in 1998, but her mother, Beulah, still lives in Rock Hill. [..]
While her son-in-law rarely talked of war, Lowery said he talked of Kerry and admired his courage.
"He didn't like to talk about it, so we didn't press him," Lowery said. "But David always appreciated what he (Kerry) did for them. He talked real nice about him."
Many young men died in the Vietnam War, but David Alston didn't and his mother says that's good enough for her where Kerry is concerned.
"Kerry was his lieutenant," Ida Alston said, "His commander. He had nothing bad to say about him (Kerry). He said he was a good man. Very, very good." [..]
Drew Whitlow is the name of yet another crewmember on the boat Kerry commanded in Vietnam. Make that supportive crew #5, aside from the two fellow skippers who approve of Kerry. "He fought beside Presidential candidate John Kerry in Vietnam, but now Huntsville resident Drew Whitlow is fighting to get Kerry elected president", KFSM.com reports.
And I really can stop counting: "
Eight of the original members have traveled the country campaigning", says the article.
Eight out of ten of Kerry's crewmates have not just been expressing approval of his character and confidence in his qualifications for the Presidency, but actually going out campaigning for the man. At the Convention, there were
nine. The
only one who hasnt joined his former crewmates is Gardner - he of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Let me get this straight. On
its website, SWVFT jeers about how Kerry's "campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises". A "handful of veterans", they say - when we are talking about every single of Kerry's crewmen except for Gardner? And Gardner approves of such lines?
The guy should be ashamed.
"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.
Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."
-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)
"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "
-- Richard O'Meara
"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
-- Steven Gardner
"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.
All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."
-- Robert Brant
"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.
Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."
-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)
"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.
In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."
-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)
"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.
Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."
-- Joseph Ponder
"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."
-- Jeffrey Wainscott
"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.
Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"
-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)
"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.
We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief.."
-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."
-- Andrew Horne
"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.
It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."
-- Robert Elder
"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command..
Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."
-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)
Did everybody else notice that in all of these personal testimonies in the post above, only
TWO people actually had
any personal interaction with John Kerry in Vietnam?
Vietnam veterans are fully entitled to disagree with Kerry's take on atrocities having taken place, and if they disagree, they will of course be angry. Sure.
But the "Veterans for Truth" activists have continually tried to make it seem like John Kerry acted less than honorably, less than nobly, while he was in Vietnam. That he was incompetent or cowardly.
Of all the personal notes above, only
two have any direct bearing on said allegations. Otherwise, opposite the glowing testimonies of former Kerry crewmates, they place simply a political point.
Of the two, one is above-mentioned Steve Gardner. Of the ten still living crewmates of Kerry, he is the only one who came out against him, the only one who expressed less than passionate respect for Kerry. One or two others have disagreed fiercely with Kerry's anti-war stance at the time, but nevertheless have nothing but praise for how he conducted himself in Vietnam -- like
all but one of Kerry's ten crewmates have stood up against any attack on Kerry's swiftboat record. And all except Gardner have now rallied to help him, most of them having come out to speech and campaign ever since 'Iowa'.
Ten men you were in war with thirty-odd years ago, most of whom you'd long lost touch with; and now nine out of ten are there, working every state because they trust
you. That says something.
You may disagree with Kerry's political take on the Vietnam war when he came back home, like all of those people in the post above do. But a war hero he is. Unless you want to take Gardner's word and that of one commander who
once saw him, over that of nine of Gardner's and Kerry's dedicated crewmembers, who one after another have insisted that Kerry saved their lives.
The Bradenton Herald wrote:Sandusky described Kerry as a fearless and compassionate leader in battle. [..]
When one veteran asked Sandusky about Kerry critics who say the senator didn't earn his military medals, Sandusky rebuffed the criticism in a deep, raspy voice.
"I know he earned every one of them," Sandusky said. "He saved my life, and I saved his." (
link)
I would like to find out what type of benifits they have been promised or if they are being paid for this. I wouldn't put it past Kerry to have paid some of these guys off.
Quote:I wouldn't put it past Kerry to have paid some of these guys off.
This is the first time I have heard Kerry accused of being a republican.
The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.
I'd call that less than honorable and less than noble. Purple Hearts for a couple of boo-boos? No wonder he tossed them.
Baldimo wrote:I would like to find out what type of benifits they have been promised or if they are being paid for this. I wouldn't put it past Kerry to have paid some of these guys off.
You dont seem to think too highly of Vietnam vets, then? If you think 9 out of 10 of any group of 'em can collectively be
bribed into political action?
JustWonders wrote:I'd call that less than honorable and less than noble. Purple Hearts for a couple of boo-boos? No wonder he tossed them.
Yeah - so on that one you have the word, again, of the nine crewmen who were
with him there, on the boat - and one commander who, judging from what he says about it, briefly saw Kerry afterwards. (And uses the memory of that brief interaction, thirty years later, to launch straight into a partisan, self-defensive tirade about something else in the next paragraph).
Your choice.
Gene Thorson was another man who actually
did serve on the same boat as Kerry, under his command. (Make that supportive crew #6, aside from the two fellow skippers who also approve of Kerry). Thorson was no peacenik:
The Iowa State Daily wrote:"I was a hawk back then, and I still am," Thorson said. "People will disagree with Vietnam, and I'll listen to what they say. However, I'll defend what we did there." (
link)
But he's been out there campaigning for Kerry anyway:
The Daily Tribune, Hibbing, Minnesota wrote:"In Febuary of 1969 Gene Thorson was patrolling the rivers of South Vietnam with Sen. John Kerry. [..] Thorson was the aft gunner on the boat commanded by Kerry. The year they served together was long enough for Thorson to recognize leadership qualities in the Democratic challenger.
"He had outstanding insticts, I'm glad he was there," Thorson said. "I never heard him get on anybody for anything. And after a fire fight he was the first one to ask if you were all right. He really cared about all of us and he's going to be a great president." [..]
"Gene is a shy man and he didn't talk much about Vietnam until recently [his wife Betty said]. I have seen a different side of him since he's been campaigning. He does it for John Kerry and he does it for the veterans." (
link)
Like the others, he has also recounted how Kerry got his Silver Star - and this might be relevant re: the allegations from other swift boat commanders, because he got it for an action that was so bold that his superiors at the time frowned about it - but his men testify how it saved their lives.
This is what happened:
The Iowa paper has what Thorson had to say about it, in retrospect:
Iowa State Daily wrote:Kerry believed if they turned the three swift boats he commanded toward the shore, he would transform a long, horizontal target of three boats traveling side-by-side into a narrower, vertical one.
"It would concentrate our machine guns directly on the point of fire and surprise the hell out of them," Kerry said in an interview with the Guardian.
Thorson said the idea was strange at first, but in retrospect, he firmly believes he wouldn't be alive if the soldiers hadn't gone on the offensive.
"The Viet Cong was waiting to ambush us," Thorson said. "We would have been blown out of the water by a guy with a rocket launcher if we hadn't done it that way."
[..] Kerry's crew managed to rout the Viet Cong and complete the rest of its trip through the Mekong delta without taking a wound. His plan was risky, but it worked.
The move was regarded as heroic, but created a strong stir among the top Vietnam commanders.
Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, who was in charge of naval personnel, couldn't decide if he should give Kerry the Silver Star or court-martial him for his actions, since Kerry ignored standard operating procedures.
In the end, they awarded him the Silver Star -- the third-highest combat honor.
"They thought to themselves, 'This guy definitely has balls to do what he did,'" Thorson said.
I have an issue with someone trying to grab glory for something he thought was criminal. After all he has said that he took part in and witnessed war crimes such as the burning of villages, the rape and murder of innocent civilians as well as the poisoning of crops. He has said more then once in 30 years that these things took place. Do you really want a self admitted war criminal running for office of president, or is it only ok because he is a Democrat?
nimh wrote:Baldimo wrote:I would like to find out what type of benifits they have been promised or if they are being paid for this. I wouldn't put it past Kerry to have paid some of these guys off.
You dont seem to think too highly of Vietnam vets, then? If you think 9 out of 10 of any group of 'em can collectively be
bribed into political action?
JustWonders wrote:I'd call that less than honorable and less than noble. Purple Hearts for a couple of boo-boos? No wonder he tossed them.
Yeah - so on that one you have the word, again, of the nine crewmen who were
with him there, on the boat - and one commander who, judging from what he says about it, briefly saw Kerry afterwards. (And uses the memory of that brief interaction, thirty years later, to launch straight into a partisan, self-defensive tirade about something else in the next paragraph).
Your choice.
Nimh - perhaps the memories of those nine crewman have faded, as you indicate might be the case of the commander. Did any of those nine throw away their medals? Kerry got a scratch. He's no hero. We'll just have to wait and see how the military votes, won't we?
JustWonders wrote:Nimh - perhaps the memories of those nine crewman have faded, as you indicate might be the case of the commander.
Oh, I'm a simple-minded guy - I consider the chance of
nine men who spent
all their time with the guy hazying up their memories about him less likely than the chance of
one man who met the guy just briefly ...
JustWonders wrote:Kerry got a scratch. He's no hero.
Eh - he got
three medals. Even - purely hypothetically, mind you - even if
one of 'em wasn't for much, you still have two further medals left to explain away.
One is
recounted right up here: he saved his men from all but certain death.
The other is when he steered his boat back into the firing zone and personally dragged Rassmann out of the water, and saved his life - see
this post.
How many people's lives have you saved? I've never saved a man's life. This story is pretty heroic.
Quote:James Rassmann thinks [Kerry was a legitimate hero]. He's the Green Beret a wounded Kerry plucked from the Bai Hap River in March of 1969. Del Sandusky, Kerry's number two at the time, says the rescue took place during "an intense firefight."
"Rassmann was bobbing up and down every 30 seconds," Sandusky says. The Viet Cong "would shoot at him and he would go back down and swim under water." Kerry, who had taken shrapnel in his left buttock and was suffering from a bruised right arm, directed Sandusky to steer the craft back to Rassmann, who grabbed a cargo net hanging from the bow.
"Rassmann couldn't pull himelf up -- he was too heavy, loaded with water and the flak vest -- so Kerry lay down on the deck and pulled him up," Sandusky says. "This is in the middle of a firefight. . . . He saved Rassmann's life." (
link)
We continued the debate for a while
over, from this post down, on this thread.
Amongst other stuff,
this post includes the names of all the men who served on Kerry's boats. And then there's this:
nimh wrote:Meanwhile, on what should be step #1 for anyone's fact-checking research,
here's Snopes.
Quote:Claim: John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under "fishy" circumstances.
Status: False.
Lots of detail to read through for those who are suspiciously inclined ...
LOL Nimh. I tried to kill the other "unfit for command' thread but somebody resurrected it and it has been active again for the last couple of days. Move over there.
Just for completeness' sake (yes I know, its been on the other threads already too) - from AP:
Quote:Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House today to condemn it as well.
The White House declined. [..]
The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.
"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero. [..]
McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt." [..]
"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. [..]
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication." [..]
The Vets response
Swift Boat Veterans For Truth Responds To Senator McCain
Thu Aug 05 2004 17:10:20 ET
Quote:"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 members, many of whom were wounded or highly decorated in Vietnam.
We purchased with our blood and service the right to be heard, to set the record straight about our unit, and to tell the truth about John Kerry's military service record.
We respect Senator McCain's right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Senator McCain did not."
Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (ret.), Founder and Chairman of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. (Drudge)
Col. David Hackworth says -- and I agree -- that they should STFU:
Quote:The grousers, to a man, seem to be simply passing on secondhand bilge that they ought to stow in their sea bags and lay off.
USA Today
They have as much right as anyone to tell the truth about what really happened. People can examine both versions and make up their own minds. If Mr. Kerry has nothing to hide, he shouldn't be worried about it, and neither should Mr. McCain.
