Blath,
I thought you had gotten the reference <giggling>
All is well ~ thanks
Hah, I don't know if my grandmother is there. I know she was shipped there, Auburn, way back when.
Anyway, Stradee, I am apt to be in the Sacramento area five or six times in the next couple of years, maybe we can find a way to meet.
CI, I do intend to meet you, guy, one way or the other, if only at the big meet.
Osso, that will be great if you can make the gathering in SF.
When there is an advocacy meet at the Capitol, and I'm in attendence, will let ya know.
There should be a record of your grandmothers buriel at the Cemetery. Did your relative check?
Don't know if you're familiar with the SF area of Colma where there are many denominational buriel sites. My mom and I visited the Italian cemetary and was able to find cousins of my mother's mother interred there.
Most all cemetaries keep meticulous records. All you need is the complete name of the person, and the date of passing . <sometimes just the name and age of the person is all and staff can locate the gravestie> plus it's always helpful knowing the proximity of where your grandmothers remains interred. Good luck with your search.
Almost forgot the corn theory. Even more engrossing was the relationship between seasonal wind patterns and Siamese religion. Dyslexia again.
And Siamese religon? Is that the cats, or the Thais?
And what on earth was the connection? CORN - in Asia?
roger
It was a compelling bit of historicity, was it not? The man ought to be writing textbooks, though probably, kept away from children.
dlown
You'll have to get further clarification on the unique version of Thai Buddhism (row upon row of saffron and bald heads nasally humming "They Call The Wind Mariah") from roger or one of the others present at the dysian lecture on Siam.
Laughing.................very funny, y'all. Is there one of us besides Dys (and perhaps including Dys) who can repeat the corn theory?
blatham, You're not 'crossing the border' with Lola, are you? "Engine" conjures up so many ideas...... c.i.
1. Those who want to know more about BBB, and myself might want to check profiles. Natalie posts under my imprinture. Natalie, like myself, is retired and has two grown sons and a couple of grandkids (imagine that). Natalie was raised in Newton, Mass., where her father was involved with MIT for many years. She retains a deep interest in Lithuania and Irish culture and history. Natalie has degrees from the University of the Pacific and USC. She was an actress at the San Francisco Actors Workshop when we met (I was in a Buddhist "monastery" at the time). We were Beatniks, and then Hippies who formed one of the first communes in Height-Ashbury. When it was clear that the flower children were really becoming children vulnerable to wolves, we moved away both figuratively and literally. Natalie spent many years as a children's librarian in Southern California, and helped support the family while I piled up degrees and carved out a career telling people how to make their organizations more effective and efficient. My plan was to retire to Tucson, but Natalie insisted that was too hot. We compromised on Albuquerque and it has probably turned out to be the best decision we ever made. Now Natalie is a docent for the Pueblo Indian Cultural Center, and an active member of a women's service group. After her children, and my sweet-self, her passion is the collection of jewlery. We have the largest safe-deposit box available stuffed solid with jewlery, and more still in a dozen or so chests at Corazon. Natalie's attention to the day-to-day details makes it possible for me to paint and write freely.
2. If folks are interested in appearances, what's the harm in that? Go back to paged 48-49 and there are rather good photos of all the attendees with captions. Smaller thumbnail photos appear in a number of posts between there and here. This group was about evenly divided between men and women (5-4), between the ages of 55-74. I think five were retired and four still labor in the vineyard. None of us are likely to be selected as the "Best-looking" anything this year. All were far above average in brains. Education ranged from high school to multiple University degrees, but one would have been challenged to figure out who had the formal educations and who didn't. These were folks who have successfully lived through interesting times. Experience has not been lost on this group of mature, sensitive people.
3. What about the conversation? Well, this group met for about 24 hours over three days. Some were present for most of that time, others were in and out. We had two dinners in restaurants, and ate at Corazon continuously. I don't think there was ever a "lag" in conversation. Some, like Roger and myself, are pretty deaf and so we missed a lot when the venue(s) became too noisy, or cross-talk developed. Not all conversation was confined to the assembled group. No one took notes. Conversations wandered along and followed the interests of the group, so a topic might begin with one topic that over twenty minutes might shade off into something quite different. I believe that Frbaezer, Dyslexia and I shared many experiences in the political environment (generalists given to analysis, and dealing with large groups of political policymakers whose understanding doesn't extend much beyond equating votes with love). Natalie, Diane and BBB, all of whom are nurturing sorts seemed to share a concern for more mundane, but not less important, matters of how people get on with one another. Blatham and I had a sort, but interesting conversation on Steinbeck's writing. Unfortunately, Blatham and Lola were unable to spend nearly enough time for us to really converse. On the other hand, there was ample time to get to know and appreciate their points of view. The only way to get a handle on the conversation, was to have been present.
4. Lessons Learned. I, as usual, probably over planned the event and Natalie probably laid in far too much food. I expected more folks would want to use the pool, and didn't think that anyone would be smokers. The pool went largely unused, and this group smoke like the proverbial chimney. The continguency plans for day-trips was not wasted, but few took advantage of them. I think that the costs of the gathering were very modest, and did not present a problem for any of our guests.
The time available was too short, but I doubt that we would have plumbed the depths of Dyslexia and Frbaezer given a full week. I think the hotel accomadations and transportation plans worked well. Natalie and I were somewhat disappointed in the restaurant dinners (one was more expensive than we had been led to believe, though the food was excellent. The other was priced right, but Natalie and I felt that the New Mexican food was somewhat less than we hoped.) The two restaurants we intended to use had to be abandoned. One because they wouldn't take reservations for the time we intended to eat, and the other because it was booked solid by graduates and the Memorial Day crowds. Get reservations well in advance, and stick to restaurants you personally have vetted. I think that holding the gathering at Corazon was a good choice. We have multiple areas where groups can congregate in groups ranging from 2 to 14, or so.
5. Corn is an important ingredient in the distilling of whiskey. Of course, the best whiskey is made of single malt and comes from Islay. This topic came about as we traced the consequences of the Portuguese discovery of sugarcane on European and American history, and the economic significance of trade routes during the 15th through 19th century. Given more time, I think we would have also explored the significance of the opium trade between the 16th and 20th century.
Great post, Asherman, thanks a lot!
Ignore Butrflynet, Lola. (And I had such a good impression of her until that catty remark...)
You looked wonderful, and you know it.
Ashman, Ditto for me. Excellent post, and nothing in your writing leaves wanting. Thx loads, c.i.
Asherman: Great summary and even those of us who didn't attend thank you and your lady for hosting. And thanks to those of you who were there for reporting.
But was there actually no discussion of Byzantine art from 1426-1453? I'm disappointed at yall's shallowness. -rjb-
Thanks Asherman, that post was wonderfully meaty. Lots to chew on. The conversations were fascinating due to several factors. First we had several participants who are scholars in history and know untold amounts of details about almost any subject one could bring up. I was often paying attention to the group dynamics and the process activity to the extent that I missed some detail content (but this is charaacteristic of me and my style and interest). Everyone there, to a man has extensive specialized knowledge in one field or another and I sat captivated, much of the time, observing how each person's knowledge enriched the others. It is for this reason I encourage everyone to make it to one or more of these gatherings. (There's to be one in Texas -- Austin-- in the Fall
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6118&start=120.) The discussions we have on this site are always (or at least usually) stimulating, but they compare not at all to the richness that evolved in our conversations last week end. Well, that may be a bit inaccurate. They are certainly different. The discussions on the site have aspects........like each of us gets our own say and time in which to say it. None of us has to compete for the floor here. We can write, edit, not edit, study, etc. our postings before sending them out to share with the others. And there's a nice advantage in this. It's a very good chance to write, for one thing. Writing is an activity I enjoy and I think many others do as well. Perhaps it's the enhancement of our rich interaction here that makes the gathering discussions so fascinating. There are lots of dynamics in the situation, causing multilayered, simultaneous phenomenon which is so fun to both do and to watch.
Butrflynet does have a point in that we have been neglecting this aspect of the experience. We were all just having so much silly fun. But one must understand that this very silly fun was yet again another highly significant aspect of the trip. I would like to see us focus a bit more on the intellectual side of the experience before we're done with this thread and it's time to move on to the next.
Thank you Viz and others for your encouragement. I think I'd like to bury the hatchet and make up with butrflynet now, if she's willing. There's no need to let unpleasantness go on, unchecked, ruining a perfectly good thread. However the discussion about mind/body is an interesting one and would be the subject of a good thread. Not that any of us is likely to be unfamiliar with Decartes, but maybe a discussion in "Applied Philosophy" would be fun.
Realjohnboy, your humor did not go unnoticed. Very funny.
Lola, And on that point, we'll expect all the attendees to the Western Gathering to participate in the BIG ONE in San Francisco next year in April.
c.i.
Ash
You're not a bad old boy, you know.
One of the pleasures of learning and memory is the association of multiple senses. While the brains must take over for partaking within this posting forum, among kindred spirits, friendly rivals, and even soulmates, it is powerful to have had the experience of meeting other online folks.
I swear that since I met Peace and Love, Diane, piffka, danon5, Lola, and others in the last few years - well, I just plain "listen" better to what they say online now. Even those I've spoken to on the phone have a "voice" for me that is quite powerful. I'd hate to discourage posters here from being any other than their real selves with more than brains within their words. That may sound rather odd, but the "Whole Person" is who most of us meet in person AND online. And I'd doubt any a2k folks would attend with only hopes to gawk - knowing us, now THAT is a laugh!
Sorry for the length, I hope you'll read through to the end.
As a kid, I was taught that it was extremely rude and offensive to stare at or mention a person's disfigurements, handicaps skin color and other "differences." I was taught to look for common bonds, not differences. Having a school chum disfigured from polio and a best friend with head-to-toe scars from a fire helped teach me those lessons.
As a young teenager I learned first hand how it felt when such rude and offensive remarks were made in my direction because of my acne and tall height. I was often excluded or ostracized from social gatherings by those same peers.
As a young lady, I grew up in the era when women were beginning the fight against sexist exploitation of the female body and learned once again to look further then the superficial covering of skin to truly know a person. I was lucky to have a small circle of friends who enjoyed doing that and married one of them.
As a divorced woman, I discovered the early Internet and fell in love with the diversity and concept of unconditional acceptance of people. First impressions were based on personality, not looks. I'd met and dated several people from the Internet and attended gatherings of Internet communities. It always pleased me to see how early Internet people carried the concept of looking at people from the inside out over to real life encounters. Maybe the difference was that at those times, the majority of the community was at the gathers, not just a small portion of the population. Our talk often focused on our geeky delight in exploration of early internet technologies.
As an older woman with wrinkles, graying hair and increasing weight and age, it burns my hide to see the same sexist exploitation of and obsession with looks taking over the Internet with the increasingly younger generations of Internet users.
Watching it occur in the gathering thread just brought back all my sensitivities to these issues. Before the photos were available, folks had a great time talking about impressions such as personality, common ground and new discoveries about each other. Everyone was included and mentioned.
As soon as the photos were available the talk turned to judgment of looks with little or no additional mention of a person's personality or intelligence. I felt bad for the people it was aimed at. I know when I've been the focus of talk about my looks, I've always yearned for someone to take the time to look deeper to get to know me. I watched as most of the other folks from the gathering were slowly nudged to the side with little acknowledgment of their attendance. As I age and put on weight and having been the one being nudged out of the way more times then I care for, I also felt bad for those other folks.
I kept waiting for someone to realize what was going on and redirect the thread. It didn't happen, so I spoke up and said something about it. I'll admit I probably could have done a more diplomatic job of it by eliminating the comment about old women in sundresses. I thought I was making a generic comment toward the men, not being offensive to a specific woman. Other then that one line, I stand by my posts and hope people will understand the reasons for my observations.
Buterflynet,
I wil cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you.
Note that i neither am the "old lady" or among the slack jawed "gawkers".
I found it rude without being an involved party and this "explanation" of yours does nothing to correct that perception. It only seeks to offer second rate justification for your rudeness under the guise of feminist ideals.
Oh well, rudeness loves company. Join my club. You can be the president. Just don't tarnish valid feminism with pettiness.
Thanks for that run-down, Asherman.
A good man and his good wife, hosting a netizen get-together.
I think over-planning is a constant in these things. Everyone has great plans to dooooooooo things, and the next thing ya know, a conversation has gone for 2 days straight, and someone's got to get to the airport.
Sounds like it was a wonderful time for everyone. And someday, Asherman will finish the watermelon!
