nimh wrote:JustWonders wrote:Redheat - first you argue that "these" people are "far more educated" than the person commenting on them.
Then you learn that it's generally purported to be the opposite, so you say that "education doesn't matter".
So which is it?
The poster didn't mention Bush, but was referring to a few actors that you guessed were highly educated.
And you say I'm petty? I was just putting the facts out there. How does that make me petty?
Just one problem with this ... when Redheat (of whose rhetorics I do not otherwise approve) wrote that "these" people are probably "far more educated" than the person commenting on them", she was, formally speaking, referring to the people "the person commenting on them" had actually listed - ie, Garafalo, Streep, Moore, Franken.
See? ->
Redheat wrote:SueZCue wrote:Are you kidding me? Jeanene Garafalo, Meryl Streep, Michael Moore, Al Franken, the list is endless. These people are probably at best high school graduates [..]
"These" people are my guess far more educated then the person commenting on them.
And, as we know thanks to some quick fact-checking
by Piffka, all of those people actually
did all have respectful educations.
The fact that a dozen
other liberal actors that you decided to throw in the mix as well afterwards, did not, isnt really here nor there then, is it?
Not that I dont think the whole discussion point is ridiculous anyway ... every citizen has the right to talk about how he's represented by Congress and government, and those who are famous for whatever reason or another will get the chance to do so in front of a mike, whether he's a liberal actor or a conservative country-singer. <shrugs>
Even though I was insulted that was very well said.
I always have to wonder how many links to sources I have to put in to support myself before I stop just posting "rhetoric"
Redheat wrote:Even though I was insulted
If you choose to consider disapproval the same as insult ...
Redheat wrote:I always have to wonder how many links to sources I have to put in to support myself before I stop just posting "rhetoric"
Oh, no amount of links by themselves will do that for anyone. Its how you argue around them.
In fact, distinguishing between disapproval and insult is probably one of many things that help, especially when you're expressing yourself.
Redheat wrote:
The reporter was a right wing hack who had insulted and misrepresented facts about what she said. She didn't swear like say Cheney and Bush, but she told him to "shove it" like every other human being on the planet would do. Unlike Cheney she didn't do this on the Senate floor to a peer and unlike Bush she didn't hide behind what he thought was a dead mike to call the guy an ****. She said it to his face! the way it should be done.
Good for her!
Good for her??? What, for lying???
I think the people that are encouraging Teresa Heinz-Kerry's behavior are just stuck on the very first part of the exchange... yes, at first the reporter asks her to explain what she meant by "un-american activity". And yes, she did not say activity. BUT towards the end of it she clearly states, "I did not say activity OR un-american", which is an out right LIE! Also after Teresa denies saying what she did, McNickle gives her the opportunity to clarify what she had said, by asking her "then what did you say?". Why didn't she take that opportunity if she felt that she was being misrepresented and insulted?
IMHO, she is proving to be a flip-flopper, just like her husband.
Redheat - I did not rant LOL. Neither did I accuse you of ranting OR being petty for your opinion.
What hasn't become lost in this exchange and what I find highly amusing is your "flip-flopping" when necessary to prove your points.
You guessed the endless list of "these" people were highly educated and when it was pointed out to you that SOME of them indeed are not, you said education doesn't matter.
Feel free to continue with the name-calling if that makes you feel better, though.
Redheat wrote:Einstein was a drop out I believe.
A minor correction: although Einstein briefly dropped out of one school in order to enter another, he received a PhD in Physics.
That's pretty mild compared to "go fxxk yourself!" ;0
nimh wrote:Redheat wrote:Even though I was insulted
If you choose to consider disapproval the same as insult ...
Redheat wrote:I always have to wonder how many links to sources I have to put in to support myself before I stop just posting "rhetoric"
Oh, no amount of links by themselves will do that for anyone. Its how you argue around them.
In fact, distinguishing between disapproval and insult is probably one of many things that help, especially when you're expressing yourself.
Well see I didn't know you were the final and ultimate judge! See here I thought that ALL of us here participate in a bit of rhetoric, logical debate and thoughtful rebuttals. You seem to think that we must all adhere to some standard only you are aware of. I don't consider myself perfect but then again I don't worry about what someone who seems to think themselves above it all thinks. Personally I would rather see sincere "rhetoric" rather than insincere self judged debate.
No matter what plateau you place yourself on nimh it was an insult but to each his own. I don't percieve myself like others to be the judge of all.
Quote:Redheat - I did not rant LOL. Neither did I accuse you of ranting OR being petty for your opinion.
What hasn't become lost in this exchange and what I find highly amusing is your "flip-flopping" when necessary to prove your points.
You guessed the endless list of "these" people were highly educated and when it was pointed out to you that SOME of them indeed are not, you said education doesn't matter.
Feel free to continue with the name-calling if that makes you feel better, though.
Whatever, it's a silly argument to keep going on about.
Quote:Good for her??? What, for lying???
I think the people that are encouraging Teresa Heinz-Kerry's behavior are just stuck on the very first part of the exchange... yes, at first the reporter asks her to explain what she meant by "un-american activity". And yes, she did not say activity. BUT towards the end of it she clearly states, "I did not say activity OR un-american", which is an out right LIE! Also after Teresa denies saying what she did, McNickle gives her the opportunity to clarify what she had said, by asking her "then what did you say?". Why didn't she take that opportunity if she felt that she was being misrepresented and insulted?
IMHO, she is proving to be a flip-flopper, just like her husband
.
I have NO idea what all this meant
Quote:A minor correction: Although Einstein briefly dropped out of one school in order to enter another, he received a PhD in Physics.
I stand corrected
Redheat wrote:Well see I didn't know you were the final and ultimate judge! See here I thought that ALL of us here participate in a bit of rhetoric, logical debate and thoughtful rebuttals. You seem to think that we must all adhere to some standard only you are aware of. [..] No matter what plateau you place yourself on nimh it was an insult but to each his own. I don't percieve myself like others to be the judge of all.
Wow. All that because I dared say, "RedHeat (of whose rhetorics I do not otherwise approve)"? Damn.
I do not place myself on any plateau or anything, RedHeat. But it is my freedom to disapprove of your rhetorics as much as it is your right to disapprove of - well, pretty much any conservative you've been yelling at lately here.
I am not the judge
of all and I am not
the final and ultimate judge ... all that is just more rhetorics. The only thing I am the judge of is of what I personally consider right or wrong or so-so. And that I am.
Some would consider Redheat a boon to the right.
nimh wrote:Redheat wrote:Well see I didn't know you were the final and ultimate judge! See here I thought that ALL of us here participate in a bit of rhetoric, logical debate and thoughtful rebuttals. You seem to think that we must all adhere to some standard only you are aware of. [..] No matter what plateau you place yourself on nimh it was an insult but to each his own. I don't percieve myself like others to be the judge of all.
Wow. All that because I dared say, "RedHeat (of whose rhetorics I do not otherwise approve)"? Damn.
I do not place myself on any plateau or anything, RedHeat. But it is my freedom to disapprove of your rhetorics as much as it is your right to disapprove of - well, pretty much any conservative you've been yelling at lately here.
I am not the judge
of all and I am not
the final and ultimate judge ... all that is just more rhetorics. The only thing I am the judge of is of what I personally consider right or wrong or so-so. And that I am.
What I'm saying is that you also particpate in rhetoric and therefore shouldn't be passing on judgement of anyone else's. We all do it. That's the point. What bother me more than anything is dishonesty in dealing with others but dishonest within ourselves. I know my faults but I also know that I don't "always" post rhetoric and I don't "yell" at conservatives because 1) you can't "yell" and 2) anyone that I might "yell" at is not a conservative but a right winger. There is a HUGE difference.
So nimh, maybe you think that but it you do it to. So where do you get off? I'm saying as nice as I can and maybe because I'm in a pissy mood that you need to get over yourself. Now thats over, the issue is done and I'm moving on. Cya around the board.
Einstein is on the of most notable of "high school dropouts." He rebelled against formal education by rote learning and was expelled at the age of 15. It's disputed as to whether he had already dropped out.
He studied at the renowned Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich. He had failed the entrance exam the first time perhaps due to trouble with his French. He missed many lectures, preferring self directed study, but passed the final exams after a short period of intense 'learning'; reportedly cramming from the notes of a friend.
In 1905 while still employed as a patents officer, he was awarded his PhD in physics and published a number of papers that changed the thinking about physics.
Hardly Bush's life story. A Cee student he remains.
Now i don't claim
To be an "A" student
But i'm tryin' to be
For maybe by bein'
An "A" student, Baby
I can win your love for me . . .
Wonder what laura Bush would have said under the same circustances? God Bless?
She would have said, go sit in the corner until you learn to behave! LOL
I have "only a high school education". Does this mean that I can no longer post on this thread. I think many of you make the mistake of thinking education and intelligence are the same thing.
As one of my professor's stated, education's purpose is to teach one how to teach themselves. Some have an inate intellectual curiousity to plow into the books and learn more than they ever could at a university. Getting by at school and cramming for tests does not necessarily build a well-rounded educated person. Eienstein bascially received his PhD more as an honorary degree for his exceptional intelligence, the papers he had written and his extraordinary theories. To my knowledge, he never "dropped one school for another."
Telling a reporter to 'shove it' is no biggie.
If he'd asked untoward questions or made unfair statements about her children, or husband, she would have been celebrated in all corners re her response.
Telling a reporter to 'shove it' because he presented you with your own quote, and asked you to explain it is quite a biggie. She should have just answered the question.
She will soon find out people are writing down what she says, and if she doesn't want to be faced with clarifying it later--she'd better either keep her mouth shut-- or only say what she doesn't mind admitting to later.
The 'shove it' wasn't the thing. The lie about her quote and ducking it in such a bullying manner was. I expect more to come. Meltdown predicted before the election.
Seaglass
Seaglass, any woman with spunk who is not a door mat would have told the doofus to go to his room!
BBB
And we don't know how truthful the reporter is. Where did the quote come from, is it authenticated, what was his demeanor, did she slug him...well, it's plainly a non-starter and will be stale news before I even post this.
Monday, July 26, 2004
The Truth Behind The "Shove It" Incident: Colin McNickle is a Scaife Hatchet Man
by Max Blumenthal - Blog
After watching hours of brain-dead coverage of the Tereza Heinz-Kerry "Shove It" incident, I've become so incensed I feel like chewing on aluminum cans and driving through plate glass windows.
I have yet to see a single pundit on any network even hypothesize about what might motivate Heinz-Kerry to go out of her way to tell a reporter off. She's just being her good old "cantankerous" self, they say in a near-mantra.
Well, it was not just any reporter who she told to shove it, it was Colin McNickle, the editorial page editor of right-wing sugardaddy Richard Mellon-Scaife's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.
It was McNickle who, in December, 2003, arranged to run a smear-piece claiming Heinz-Kerry was "secretively" granting money to: "extreme left-wing activist groups whose interests include exclusion of humans from both public and private lands, anti-war protests, opposition to free trade, banning of firearms, abolition of the death penalty, unlimited abortion rights, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender advocacy, as well as and environmental extremism."
Whoa! Pretty extreme. Take away the Orwellian language and that sounds like a list of mainstream liberal causes. And upon close examination, what the article actually claims is that the Heinz Foundation -- which Teresa does not directly oversee -- granted money to a group that granted money to groups that are liberal or left-wing.
Moreover, the article was based on research conducted by the Capital Research Center, a right-wing think tank funded by none other than Richard Mellon-Scaife. The Tribune-Review failed to disclose this fact.
No pundit I watched has explained just who McNickle is. The famously shallow Lloyd Grove went on MSNBC and said of McNickle, "He's basically just a reporter, someone who used to work for the newswires AP and UPI." Nevermind that UPI is owned by Sun Myung Moon; the fact that Grove missed is that McNickle is basically the non-union version of Ann Coulter.
For a glimpse of McNickle's work, read his screed against "creeping Socialism," in which he rails against The New Deal, calls Pennsylvania's centrist Democrat governor Ed Rendell "a Socialist" and journalist Harold Meyerson a "Marxist" (it was Rendell who told Heinz-Kerry that McNickle was with the Tribune-Review).
McNickle ends that piece with a quote from Austrian author Friedrich Hayek, an Austrian aristocrat credited with providing the intellectual inspiration for the American conservative movement. Hayek's ideological soulmate and fellow conservative pioneer, Alfred Jay Nock, was a hysterical anti-Semite who hated the masses and hated FDR.
Could it be that it was Hayek and Nock's ideas -- and by extension, McNickle's -- that Heinz-Kerry called "un-American?" And how are their ideas anything but un-American? Just asking.
