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Are We Ready For a Woman President? Really?

 
 
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:10 pm
http://able2know.org/topic/55353-1


This old thread from 2006 was listed under Snood's thread. I opened it out of curiosity, and was amazed at how kind and friendly the good natured joshing was regarding Hillary. I know I would be doubled up in a fit of giggles if strangers referred to me in those humorous gags about how revolting my husband thinks I am, ahhhhhhhhhh Good Times you scamps

Seriously, whatever you think of Hillary, she has survived despite that drip drip drip of humiliating comments. Carly Fiaroni when asked on stage about Trumps comments on her appearance said something that I think all women understand, she said "every women in the country knew exactly what Donald Trump meant by his comment". She was absolutely correct, and even though Max doesn't see what the big deal is, women and men recognize the tactic.
Women who make these snide remarks are labeled catty or vicious or jealous.
Does anybody out there like/or do you fear the cesspools who gossip and demean others. I think most people are uncomfortable with people who only deal in ugly sentiments. And if they make you uncomfortable, you can't respect them.



glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:15 pm
@glitterbag,
actually, the thread I referred to falls under related threads following this thread. If my link doesn't work, you can find it it below
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 07:39 pm
@glitterbag,
I believe that women and men should be treated equally, especially at the level of a national political campaign. Jokes are made about Romney's "magic underwear" and Trump's hair and sexual innuendos about Boenher's gavel. These types of jokes are common in national campaigns.

Women put themselves in the national spotlight are going to be treated just as men are treated. That's the way it should be. Anything else would be unfair.

Political campaigns are rough and tumble affairs. You need to be able to take as well as you give.

Incidentally, Glitterbag has come out punching in this discussion. I wonder how she would of reacted if I had said the things to her that she said to me. There is a double standard here. Women can be aggressive with personal attacks in these discussions, while men are supposed to be respectful and take it like a man.

I think that in any public discussion, men and women should be treated and judged as equals. That isn't the case.

glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 09:29 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm not a crybaby or a sissy, It never occurred to me you were either. That's disappointing.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 09:54 pm
@glitterbag,
Thanks Glitterbag. That's it exactly!

I haven't attacked you personally, but if I did I would be a "misogynist".You have attacked me personally, and apparently to you that makes me a "sissy" (which is a wonderful choice of words for you to make in a discussion of gender stereotypes).

I actually don't care... I can take it as well as any of the presidential candidates can. I just bring it up because it is illustrative of what is happening in general and is relevant to the discussion of Hillary Clinton in this thread.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 10:14 pm
@maxdancona,
Max, you sir are simply lost in my opinion. I think you have an underlying anger against women and I don't even know if you realize it or not. I think it's really messing up your ability to think clearly. You say you believe women in general are subjected to misogyny, but not Hillary Clinton because her status counteracts it? Do you know that's exactly like saying that blacks are subjected to racism - except the rich and famous ones. Do you think that's true, as well?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 06:54 am
@snood,
That's a cheap political shot Snood... Disagreeing with the Hillary Clinton narrative is not the same as "anger against women" and choosing to not support Hillary Clinton does not mean someone is not "ready for a woman president".

You seem to be comparing racism and misogyny again (although last time you wanted to call is "mentioning racism and misogyny in the same post"). Again I will point out that this is not valid at all, there are big differences between how misogyny and racism operate in society.

First of all, there are some gender stereotypes that favor women. You can not make a similar statement about racial stereotypes. Second, racial prejudice continues to be far more prevalent and damaging than gender stereotypes. In almost every field of social justice... salary, incarceration rates, sentencing, housing, voting rights, access to education... you name it, race is a far more important factor than gender. There is no area where White women are not privileged compared to Black men.

But my biggest point is this.

Hillary Clinton supporters want to paint Hillary as disadvantaged and to paint any questioning of the Clinton campaign narrative as misogyny.

Yet when you look at her advantages; political connections, big contributions from Wall Street firms, favorable politically managed access to SNL, defense from congressional leaders, endorsements from Hollywood.... really now. You keep saying Hillary Clinton is "subject to misogyny", yet you have failed to provide a single example where she has been treated any different than male candidates have been treated, nor have you shown any way that her gender is hurting (rather than helping") her campaign.

All you have is cheap shots toward people who dare question the Hillary Clinton narrative.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 07:50 am
@maxdancona,
Is it a cheap shot for me to say that your opinion - Women may be subjected to misogyny, but not Hillary - makes no sense?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 07:57 am
@snood,
The cheap shot is the personal attack, that my disagreeing with the Hillary Clinton narrative is "anger toward women". Disagreeing with my opinion is not a cheap shot. I don't believe you and I have ever met, and yet you make this stereotypical comment based only on the fact that I don't accept this pro-Hillary spin.

I have no problem with Hillary Clinton running, or with Hillary Clinton supporters making their case.

The narrative the Hillary Clinton is disadvantaged is nothing more than well-crafted political propaganda. The personal attacks on people who question this narrative are indefensible.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 08:13 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The cheap shot is the personal attack, that my disagreeing with the Hillary Clinton narrative is "anger toward women". Disagreeing with my opinion is not a cheap shot. I don't believe you and I have ever met, and yet you make this stereotypical comment based only on the fact that I don't accept this pro-Hillary spin.

I have no problem with Hillary Clinton running, or with Hillary Clinton supporters making their case.

The narrative the Hillary Clinton is disadvantaged is nothing more than well-crafted political propaganda. The personal attacks on people who question this narrative are indefensible.



I did say that I think you have anger toward women. It was the only thing I could come up with that explains to me the apparent animus you have toward her. I say women still are subjected to misogynistic attitudes; Hillary is a woman, therefore I say Hillary is subjected to these same attitudes. You say that is the same thing as saying Hillary is a "disadvantaged candidate". That seems irrational to me. The two are not the same thing. I apologize for saying I think you're angry at women. I see that could be taken as too personal. I certainly don't know you other than what I read here.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 08:45 am
@snood,
Quote:
I did say that I think you have anger toward women. It was the only thing I could come up with that explains to me the apparent animus you have toward her.


I have the same "animus" toward several of the current candidates. My animus toward Ted Cruz and Ben Carson is far more profound. Gender has nothing to do with it.

I have been very clear about the reasons I am not fond of Hillary Clinton.

She is mushy on the issues. I don't like her record on things like the war on crime, the Iraq War, and same-sex marriage. I don't like the fact that she still isn't taking bold stands on things like racial justice (I still haven't seen a detailed platform on this). I also don't like the way that her campaign, with the Democratic establishment, has tried to push her candidacy through with minimal opposition. And, I also don't like the way that she skirted transparency laws.

Making any dislike of Hillary Clinton into a gender issue is not only inaccurate, it is a political ploy to dampen any opposition to the Hillary Clinton candidacy.

Do you have any "animus" toward any of the political candiates, Snood?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 08:50 am
The following is an interesting article, I don't know if I agree with every word, but it does explain the problem many who criticize Hillary face somewhat accurately. I disagree with parts of it completely (mostly concerning the emails and the security of it, as we all know all of our government's computers been hacked so her's wouldn't have been any safer if she never used a personal server, as for Snowden, please...) and I am not sure he is correct in that Sanders will win the Democrat ticket, but it would be nice in my opinion.

Benghazi Is Political, But Clinton's Email Scandal Is Serious. That's Why Bernie Sanders Will Win



0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:26 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
I did say that I think you have anger toward women. It was the only thing I could come up with that explains to me the apparent animus you have toward her.


I have the same "animus" toward several of the current candidates. My animus toward Ted Cruz and Ben Carson is far more profound. Gender has nothing to do with it.

I have been very clear about the reasons I am not fond of Hillary Clinton.

She is mushy on the issues. I don't like her record on things like the war on crime, the Iraq War, and same-sex marriage. I don't like the fact that she still isn't taking bold stands on things like racial justice (I still haven't seen a detailed platform on this). I also don't like the way that her campaign, with the Democratic establishment, has tried to push her candidacy through with minimal opposition. And, I also don't like the way that she skirted transparency laws.

Making any dislike of Hillary Clinton into a gender issue is not only inaccurate, it is a political ploy to dampen any opposition to the Hillary Clinton candidacy.

Do you have any "animus" toward any of the political candiates, Snood?


In any case, my comment about your attitude was not a "political ply to deflect" anything - just one person't opinion about another. I certainly don't label all criticism of Hillary as gender-based. And yes, I have very, very strong dislike for Trump, Cruz and Fiorina, above the others. But I don't have any sense that the other Republicans are good and decent people, either. The last GOP candidate I felt like had some scruples was John Huntsman.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:29 am
I have always said I don't particularly "like" Hillary Clinton, as far as the matter of "liking" or "disliking" a person we know only through the media. She has always struck me as very stilted and emotionally repressed, and she doesn't come off as genuine. If I support her for president it will be because I think she can do a better job than whoever else is running - full stop.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:38 am
@glitterbag,
Sex?
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 10:05 am
@RABEL222,
What are you asking?
snood
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 10:09 am
@glitterbag,
Yeah, I was wondering that too.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:01 pm
@glitterbag,
Well its been so long when the word comes up I have to think way back.
snood
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:17 pm
@RABEL222,
That doesn't explain what you were asking of glitterbag.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2015 06:31 am
The only objection I have with the Hillary email issue is knowing she was a public servant, she shouldn't have set her emails to delete after thirty days. She should have made back up copies of all her emails, since she saw fit to use the same server for her personal emails and official ones she should have just made sure all of them were available in the event they were later needed. Apparently however, there was a separate cloud back up service which was unknown to Hillary.

Unbeknownst to Clinton, IT firm had emails stored on cloud; now in FBI’s hands

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article37968711.html#storylink=cpy


My objection to Hillary Clinton is that despite admiring most (not all)of her policies, I don't trust her and think she is ruthless and unethical. My point is there is plenty of real objections to Hillary other than being a woman. So even if there are still backwards people out there who would object on that reason alone, I don't think in her case it would be a significant factor if she ends up loosing the democrat primary.

 

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