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Are We Ready For a Woman President? Really?

 
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 12:39 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That does not mean that Hillary Clinton, who has the connections, wealth, family name, power and education to launch a campaign is disadvantaged by anything. Many women are victims of gender stereotypes and are disadvantaged by social attitudes and institutions.

I don't think gender is an issue with her candidacy, but I do think that while the primary attacks against her deal with her policies and performance, the whisper attacks do often take a gender bias. Trump recently on Clinton:
Quote:
“Hillary, who is very shrill — do you know the word ‘shrill’?” Trump said to a crowd of a few hundred at a convention center here Wednesday afternoon. “She can be kind of sha-riiiiill.”
That's not an attack on her positions or performance. I posted the article (albeit from the 2008 election) where an "expert" on Fox News says Clinton lost in Iowa because she has a "nagging voice". That Clinton was a "nag" was a common attack in 2008. Maybe that one has grown thin, but I doubt it.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 12:53 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
I don't think gender is an issue with her candidacy,

She has spent years making showy supports of feminist causes while claiming 'I am one of you", and the assumption that she had white and black womens votes in the bag as one of the main factors in her electoral math, the fact that she has spoken little on he gender on stage does not make her campaign gender neutral.

Quote:
That Clinton was a "nag" was a common attack in 2008. Maybe that one has grown thin, but I doubt it.
there is a huge rebellion against busy body elites constantly telling us little people how we should be living our lives, what we should care about. Trumps line is a winner.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 12:55 pm
@engineer,
I agree with you Engineer, there is some misogyny in the snide comments of Trump and Fox news. I don't think these are going to sway any votes (i.e. be any sort of significant disadvantage to Hillary), but sure.

I also think that Romney faced the same sort of whispers about "magic underwear" due to his Mormon faith.

My issue is this. To a Hillary supporter, every criticism of Hillary, from partisan Congressional investigations to joke gifts is misogyny. They don't want equality, they want their candidate to sail through the primary and then the general election without scrutiny or any of the rough and tumble politics that every single other candidate faces.

This is why when Glitterbag sees Hillary Clinton's face printed on toilet paper, it is an outrage. But when George Bush's face is printed on toilet paper it is no problem.

Hillary Clinton should be treated the same as every other candidate. And she is being treated like every other candidate.

Hilary Clinton is one of the best politically connected person on the planet with Wall Street donors, universal name recognition, and access to public leader and political figures across the planet.

Packaging Hillary as a disadvantaged woman struggling to make it is nothing but shameless political marketing from a group of people who feel that Hillary is Entitled to the White House.





hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:13 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Packaging Hillary as a disadvantaged woman struggling to make it is nothing but shameless political marketing from a group of people who feel that Hillary is Entitled to the White House.

She and her people never doubted that the lemmings would follow that shameless political marketing and vote for Hillary, but so far it is not working. Young women have a distrust and a distaste for the elite just as everyone else does.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:15 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

My issue is this. To a Hillary supporter, every criticism of Hillary, from partisan Congressional investigations to joke gifts is misogyny.

There is a whole thread on when will Clinton give up her candidacy and there is very little talk of misogyny, but there is a lot of talk about her strengths and weaknesses. Do I think misogyny shapes some of the Clinton attacks? Sure, a few of them from the usual sources. Do I think that all or even most the criticisms she faces are based on that? No and I don't see others saying that either. Can you find a counter example? Likely, but your comment that "every criticism.. is misogyny", I just don't see that.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 01:39 pm
@engineer,
The idea that the Benghazi investigation is motivated by misogyny has been repeated at least a couple times on this thread. This is ridiculous. It is a partisan attack but many men have faced partisan investigations when the opposition party controls Congress. I can list any number of men who faced this (or worse).

Any unbiased observer would conclude that the email server scandal is largely due to Clinton breaking the spirit, if not the letter of government transparency rules. Yet Clinton supporters are trying to sweep aside this uncomfortable issue because misogyny.

The very premise of this thread is that the reason Hillary Clinton isn't just gliding into the office to which she is entitled has nothing to do with her record or the fact that people don't see her as trustworthy (an area where gender stereotypes work in her favor). it's that we aren't ready for a women president?

Give me a female candidate who is trustworthy, has been consistent on most issues, has opposed bad wars and tough on crime bills and doesn't have such deep ties to Wall Street and I will support her.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:02 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The idea that the Benghazi investigation is motivated by misogyny has been repeated at least a couple times on this thread.

A search for the letters "beng" on all ten pages of this thread led to one hit, your post. (Now it will lead to four since I used it twice and quoted you!) I'm using IE11, so everything is a little suspect, but I think you were the first to mention Benghazi.

If you have a link showing where Clinton supporters on A2K are saying the email server "scandal" is misogyny, feel free to post it. I've seen comments saying it is politically based and ones saying it shows her lack of transparency and trustworthiness, but I haven't noticed anyone trying to shut it down by saying it is misogyny.

I read the premise of this thread as questioning in broader terms the hurdles a woman would face as opposed to a man. That Clinton supporters play the misogyny card regularly is, as far as I can tell, a position unique to a few anti-Clinton posters.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:13 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
A group that’s referring to itself as Hillary Clinton’s “Super Volunteers” has promised to track when the media uses “coded” sexist words — such as “ambitious” and “insincere” — to describe her, according to New York Times political reporter Amy Chozick. The other forbidden words and phrases are “polarizing,” “calculating,” “disingenuous,” “insincere,” “ambitious,” “inevitable,” “entitled,” “over-confident,” “secretive,” “will do anything to win,” “represents the past” and “out of touch.” The idea is either that when these words are used to describe her more often than male candidates or that when they are used to describe her at all there is some kind of negative connotation attached to them that’s rooted in sexism. Good thing they warned me. Otherwise I at some point might have called her “insincere” or “disingenuous” — because she, you know, is. Just earlier this week she vowed she was beginning a new, open relationship with the media during a speech and then refused to take questions after it. Oh, and while we’re at it: Using your private e-mail for official government business and pretending it was a matter of “convenience” seems pretty damn deceitful. But I guess we can’t call her what she is, and the reason we can’t is that she’s a woman. You see how ridiculous it is to consider this a feminist point of view, right?

I don’t doubt that it’s tougher for female politicians in a lot of ways. Sexism is still a big problem. If you disagree, go ahead and spend 14 seconds reading an Internet comments section and then tell me I’m wrong. It’s true, a lot of people think that women can’t handle the same things that men can. But here’s the thing: Doesn’t creating a whole set of special “rules” for Hillary just because she’s a female reinforce that idea? I don’t know how to solve the problem of women not being treated like other candidates — but not treating them differently from other candidates because they’re women sure does seem like a good start to me.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/416065/k-katherine-timpf
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 02:23 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Quote:
The idea that the Benghazi investigation is motivated by misogyny has been repeated at least a couple times on this thread.

A search for the letters "beng" on all ten pages of this thread led to one hit, your post. (Now it will lead to four since I used it twice and quoted you!) I'm using IE11, so everything is a little suspect, but I think you were the first to mention Benghazi.

If you have a link showing where Clinton supporters on A2K are saying the email server "scandal" is misogyny, feel free to post it. I've seen comments saying it is politically based and ones saying it shows her lack of transparency and trustworthiness, but I haven't noticed anyone trying to shut it down by saying it is misogyny.

I read the premise of this thread as questioning in broader terms the hurdles a woman would face as opposed to a man. That Clinton supporters play the misogyny card regularly is, as far as I can tell, a position unique to a few anti-Clinton posters.


BINGO!

That is almost all it is, Engineer, both here in A2K...and out there in the real world.

Clinton supporters "playing the misogyny card" is minuscule compared with the constant drum beat of anti-Clinton people playing the "you people are playing the misogyny card" card!
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:20 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
I read the premise of this thread as questioning in broader terms the hurdles a woman would face as opposed to a man. That Clinton supporters play the misogyny card regularly is, as far as I can tell, a position unique to a few anti-Clinton posters.


Most people who run for the presidency will lose. Most women who run for the presidency will lose. That how it works when you only have one winner for many candidates. Every running is in the national spotlight and has an uphill challenge from this point on. I still see no evidence of Hillary receiving any more flack than any other candidate... she gets the "cracker", Mitt Romney got the "magic underwear". Everyone takes flack. Obama is the sole example of a person who actually faced virulent racism.

The real question is why there aren't more women who are running. And, I think we will agree that gender stereotypes and social institutions do a lot to keep women from reaching the highest levels of political power and influence. Do we all agree that we should figure out how to get more women to run?

Hillary has reached the top level of political power and influence. She is getting tens of millions of dollar from Coporate backers, she has powerful congressional leaders running interference for her. She even has SNL bending over backwards to portray her positively (it was a very funny skit... but her team clearly made sure the script was in her favor). She has every advantage... she is more politically connected than any other candidate.

Many women have to struggle against misogyny. Hillary Clinton, with the wealth of political influence she wields now, is not one of them.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:25 pm
@glitterbag,
Thats terrible, you have no taste at all!
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:28 pm
@maxdancona,
As opposed to Trump who has lost enough inherited money to fund some governments. Some hero.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:33 pm
@RABEL222,
I would vote for Hillary over Trump without blinking an eye (have you seen his hair?).
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:35 pm
@glitterbag,
He dont like Hillery personally even though what he knows about her is what is printed in papers and touted on the media so he has to make up stuff to justify his dislike sort of like Lash but not as strongly worded.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 03:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Probably belongs to a sheep. That is what wigs are made of isent it. I dont wear a wig so I dont know if it is or not. I am only going bald front and back.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:28 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I would vote for Hillary over Trump without blinking an eye (have you seen his hair?).


Too bad . Can you justify this?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 04:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Too bad . Can you justify this?


Trump is a complete clown so I do not see why max or anyone else need to justify preferring Hillary over him.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 05:09 pm
@BillRM,
Trump is a smart guy who plays the clown act because he has made the bet that we are now a reality TV society.

He may or may not be right.

So far it looks like he is right.

And JSYK he has a history of being right.
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 05:27 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Thats terrible, you have no taste at all!


You might be right, did you feel sexually harassed when I said I always say Hubba Hubba when your name comes up?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2015 06:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Sorry but playing to the low IQ members of the GOP while insulting everyone else is not going to win him anything in the long run.

An he is not playing a clown he is a clown.
0 Replies
 
 

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