33
   

The Case For Biden

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 08:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

But despite what you said, the results seem to be anything but awful...unless one is a conservative hoping for poor results. Then the results are poor...for conservatives who see that the plan is working...and is a decent start in a direction we Americans long ago should have taken.[/b]
Please cite an example of these "anything but awful" results.

Venezuela?? The U.S where employment is stagnant???
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 08:32 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

revelette2 wrote:

So how did the trickle down and tax cuts for the rich work out for ya? (To paraphrase Sara Palin) To answer, not good at all.


Quite well thank you. That, of course, all came before the Obama presidency - since then we have seen the opposite; i.e. tax increases on income, dividends, capital gains, medicare other items. In addition business investment and job creation are down as companies hoard cash, reluctant to invest it in new job creating enterprises because of unceertainties in an increasingly intrusive regulatory regime that prevents reliable forecasting of likely outcomes, and return on investment.

That is the real reason behind the stagnation of the middle class.

In the previous decade my company grew by over 50% adding many hundreds of new jobs for young engineers, geologists and scientists, and as stocks went up their retirement funds grew apace. Now employment and growth are flat and prospects for new investment are uncrertain at best as we wait to see just what stupid action an increasingly intrusive and aggressive government will do next.


Good god. Do you posit that Obama's presidency has been a net positive or negative for the nation's economic health?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 09:38 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

But despite what you said, the results seem to be anything but awful...unless one is a conservative hoping for poor results. Then the results are poor...for conservatives who see that the plan is working...and is a decent start in a direction we Americans long ago should have taken.[/b]
Please cite an example of these "anything but awful" results.

Venezuela?? The U.S where employment is stagnant???


The Obamacare you mentioned...and which you conservatives seem to despise so...has been showing very positive results, George.

But of course the conservatives must treat those kinds of things the way they treated Social Security back in the late 1930's.


0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:03 am
@snood,
Tell me about it, I am never sure what he says, he has a way of making a whole lot of nothing sound like a really good something.

In any event if he is trying to say his company did better with Reagan and George W Bush, he is among the minority.

Quote:

Obama’s Numbers (January 2015 Update)

Jobs, paychecks, corporate profits and stock prices have all improved since our last report on the Obama statistical record. Some highlights:

◾The economy has now gained nearly five times more jobs under President Barack Obama than it did during the presidency of George W. Bush, and the unemployment rate has dropped to just below the historical average.
◾Real weekly earnings are up 1.7 percent, thanks in part to a plunge in gasoline prices.
◾Corporate profits have nearly tripled, and stock prices have soared.
◾On the other hand, the number of Americans receiving food stamps remains 45 percent higher than when the president first took office, and the rate of home ownership has dropped by 3.2 percentage points, to the lowest point in nearly 20 years.
◾The average premium for a benchmark “silver” health plan in the Obamacare marketplaces rose only 2 percent this year, and consumers had more plans from which to choose. But the tax penalty for going without insurance will double.

Analysis

As we do every three months, we offer here a fresh update of selected statistical indicators of what has happened since Barack Obama first took the oath of office in January 2009. Some are positive and some are not, but all are from sources we consider solid and reliable. And as usual, we caution that no single number or collection of numbers can tell the entire story.

Jobs & Unemployment


Now that 2014 has gone on the books as the best year for employment growth in 15 years, the official figures show that the U.S. had 6,371,000 more people employed in December than it did when Obama took office in 2009. So during Obama’s first six years in office, the U.S. has added nearly five times more jobs than it did during the entire eight years under President George W. Bush. (Bush’s total was just under 1.3 million.)

Bush’s record suffered from a loss of nearly 4.4 million jobs in the last 12 months of his presidency, and we can’t say what the last two years of Obama’s tenure will bring.

The official unemployment rate has now dipped to 5.6 percent, which is 2.2 percentage points below where it was when Obama first took office. It is not only the lowest jobless rate in six years — it is slightly better than the historical average. Since 1948, the monthly jobless rate has averaged 5.8 percent.

Some scars from the Great Recession of 2007-2009 still linger. There are nearly 2.8 million people suffering from long-term unemployment — being out of work for 27 weeks or longer. That is 86,000 higher than it was when Obama entered office.

And the average number of weeks that the unemployed have been without work was 32.8 weeks — which is 13 weeks longer than the average duration of joblessness for the month Obama entered the White House.

Prices & Wages

Consumer Prices — Overall inflation in consumer prices has remained moderate over Obama’s first six years, rising by only 11.8 percent between January 2009 and November of last year, the most recent month for which the Bureau of Labor Statistics has released the Consumer Price Index.

Gasoline — Lately, the CPI has been held down by a historic drop in fuel prices. Gasoline prices have plunged so steeply since last June that they are nearly as low as when Obama first took office amid a worldwide recession. As of the week ending Jan. 5, the price at the pump of unleaded regular gasoline was down to $2.21 per gallon, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That’s just 20 percent higher than the unusually low point at which it stood on Inauguration Day 2009.

Real Weekly Earnings — With inflation in check, the purchasing power of weekly paychecks has been rising, especially in the last few months. The BLS measure of average weekly earnings for all workers, adjusted for inflation and seasonal factors, was 1.7 percent higher in November (the most recent month available) than it was when Obama first took office. And the figure has gone up 1.4 percent since June, when fuel prices started dropping.

Food Stamps — Despite the improving economy, the number of Americans receiving benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly known as “food stamps,” has hardly declined at all since our last report. As of September 2014, the most recent month for which the government has released figures, the total stood at just below 46.5 million people, or about 1 out of 9 Americans. The number is only 2.8 percent below the peak reached in December 2012, and still more than 45 percent higher than the month before the president was first sworn in.

Obama’s legacy is almost certain to include a stubbornly large increase in the food stamp rolls. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects a very slow decline in the rolls. As of its most recent “baseline” projections of the program, CBO estimated that when Obama leaves office in 2017, the number of food stamp beneficiaries will still be at 42.7 million — one third more than when he entered.

Home Ownership — In spite of historically low mortgage rates and an improving economy, the rate of home ownership has slid to its lowest point in nearly 20 years.

As of the third quarter of 2014, the percentage of U.S. householders who owned their own homes was 64.3 percent, according to the most recent figures from the U.S. Census Bureau. That is lower than at any time since the fourth quarter of 1994.

Home ownership peaked at 69.4 percent in early 2004, but it has declined 5.1 percentage points since then. Most of the decline — 3.2 percentage points — has taken place since Obama first took office.

Profits & Markets

Corporate Profits — Profits of business corporations are soaring under Obama, setting new records. In the third quarter of 2014, the most recent period for which figures have been released, after-tax corporate profits were running at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of just under $1.9 trillion, the highest ever recorded.

That figure is 182 percent higher than in the recession-wracked quarter before Obama first took office. It is also 34 percent higher than the pre-recession peak, which was the third quarter of 2006.

Stock Markets — Stockholders continue to do quite well under Obama. The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index stood at 156 percent higher at the close on Jan. 8 than it did the day Obama took office. Other stock indexes show similarly robust gains. The Dow Jones Industrial Average also has more than doubled, rising 125 percent during Obama’s tenure, and the NASDAQ Composite index is up 229 percent, more than tripling during the same period.

Obamacare

The millions who are renewing their individual market coverage under the Affordable Care Act — or signing up for new coverage — are finding that they have more choices than in 2014, and that the average cost of a policy has risen only modestly.

More insurance companies are competing in the new ACA marketplaces. “There are over 25 percent more issuers participating in the Marketplace in 2015″ than in 2014, according to the most recent official figures from the Department of Health and Human Services.

Meanwhile, the average cost across all U.S. counties for a benchmark (second-lowest-cost) “silver” policy rose only 2 percent, according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. HHS also reported a 2 percent average rise for a benchmark “silver” plan.

The cheaper and less generous “bronze” plans rose an average of 4 percent, KFF said. And it found that premium changes varied widely depending on location, from an increase of 34 percent for a benchmark silver plan in southeastern Alaska, to a whopping 45 percent reduction in Summit County (Breckenridge), Colorado. Also, it will pay for policyholders to shop around: A New York Times analysis of the rate data showed many with existing marketplace plans would see a premium hike (as high as 20 percent) unless they switched policies.


Previously, there were indications the average premium would actually decrease. In our last report, we quoted a preliminary KFF study that showed the average premium had gone down by 0.8 percent. But as we noted at the time, that was based on analysis covering only the largest cities in 15 states and the District of Columbia where information from rate filings was available. KFF later revised the figure when filings from all 50 states and the District of Columbia became available.

The ACA’s second annual open enrollment period began Nov. 15 and will remain open through Feb. 15. So it is still too early to say how many more will sign up for coverage this year, compared with last. So far, enrollment has been brisk, and without the technical foul-ups that plagued the system a year earlier.

There’s solid evidence that the new law has extended health insurance coverage to millions. But how many millions have gained coverage, and how many will remain uninsured, won’t be known for some time. According to the most recent release of the National Health Interview Survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the percentage of people without health insurance at the time they were interviewed fell to 12.2 percent of the population during the first six months of 2014, down from 14.4 percent during 2013, before the ACA’s insurance marketplaces took effect (see Table 1).

One thing we can say with certainty is that the law’s basic tax penalty for failing to obtain coverage has doubled for 2015, going from 1 percent of household income for those who were uninsured in 2014 to 2 percent of household income for those who don’t get coverage this year.

The minimum tax penalty, for those with very low income, has more than tripled. It went from $95 per adult for being uninsured in 2014 to $325 for 2015. The penalty amounts have been part of the law since it passed in 2010, and the higher rates went into effect Jan. 1.

Those who were uninsured in 2014 must pay the tax penalty when they file their 2014 income tax returns, which are due by April 15. (The IRS is calling it an “individual shared responsibility payment,” neatly avoiding taking sides on the politicized question of whether it’s a “tax” or a “penalty.”)

Federal Debt

The federal debt has already grown more during Obama’s first six years than under all previous U.S. presidents combined, at least in nominal dollars with no adjustment for inflation. The debt owed to the public stands at about $13 trillion, an increase of 106 percent since Obama first took office.

Total debt, counting money the government owes to itself, stands at $18.1 trillion, up 70 percent.

Both debt figures continue to grow, though less rapidly than during Obama’s first few years when annual deficits topped $1 trillion for four years running. The U.S. finished the most recent fiscal year with a deficit of $483 billion. But the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects that unless Congress acts to trim future spending or raise future taxes, or some combination of both, those annual deficits will soon be rising again. The most recent “baseline” budget projection, which CBO issued in August, forecasts that under current law the deficit will rise above half a trillion in fiscal 2016 and hit $960 billion within a decade.

Energy

U.S. Oil Production — A major cause of the drop in fuel prices is the historic boom in U.S. crude oil production that has continued throughout the Obama years. In the third quarter of last year, the U.S. produced nearly 76 percent more crude oil than it did in the three months before Obama began his presidency.

And with domestic production surging, U.S. reliance on imported oil has been cut in half. Under Obama, as of the July-September quarter of 2014, imports were down 55 percent.

These changes are due mainly to advances in drilling technology rather than to any change in government policy.

Wind & Solar — Electricity generated by wind and solar power in the most recent 12 months on record (ending in October) was 248 percent higher than the total for 2008. That was spurred in part by large federal tax subsidies for wind and solar generation, all supported by Obama. But those increases still left the nation producing just 4.8 percent of all its electricity from wind and solar in the most recent 12 months on record, up from 1.4 percent in 2008. Coal accounted for the biggest share, followed by natural gas and nuclear power.

Unfulfilled Promises

Exports — In January 2010, the president said in his State of the Union address, “We will double our exports over the next five years.” That hasn’t come close to happening.

According to the most recent report of the Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. exports of goods and services have gone up by just under 39 percent since Obama took office — and by only 35.1 percent since he uttered the promise.

That’s because many of the United States’ trading partners are struggling economically, leaving them less able to buy what the U.S. would like to export. The average unemployment rate among all 28 European Union countries, for example, was 10 percent in November, according to Eurostat, the union’s statistical office. The U.S. rate was 5.8 percent that month. Also in November, Japan officially entered an economic recession.


source
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:53 am
@revelette2,
You touched on these in your post above, but I wanted to re-iterate these 3.

Here are three things for which republicans can never give credit to President Obama. There are several others, but these stand out to me (I listed the one that’s relevant to this line of discussion first):

1) Showed (again) that trickle-down economics does not work. The last of the Bush-era tax cuts for the rich phased out in 2013. In 2014, new taxes on corporations and the wealthy kicked in (around the same time that 16 million Americans got health insurance for the first time). The job market started to grow as it hadn’t since the 1990’s. As they had done in 1993, Republicans swore up and down that tax cuts on the rich would crash the economy. But the exact opposite happened. Targeted tax hikes on the wealthy and corporations proved good for the overall economy.

2) Proved we can expand health insurance and shrink the deficit. Economists have long posited that America’s long-term debt problems could be immensely improved if we did the same thing every other advanced nation in the world does – insure everyone. Since the inception of Obamacare, long-term debt projections have decreased by 600 billion dollars. For 50 years we languished – waiting for our government to do something to fix our broken healthcare system. President Obama’s efforts represent the first time anyone has been able to make such an improvement. Not a perfect one-payer system, but a vast improvement over what we had. Health spending is at a 50 year low. Businesses aren’t dumping employees’ coverage. Obama shrunk the deficit (as a percentage of GDP) more than even Bill Clinton.

3) Proved the US can get involved in effectively kick starting clean energy.
Obama’s stimulus package included regulation of carbon emissions. The republicans spent half a billion dollars in advertisement smearing that stimulus, but in 2014, the world experienced for the first time in 40 years economic upturn occurred at the same time as CO2 emissions declined. It happened for a lot of reasons – China and other countries shifted more to renewables, and the US became more efficient in their energy production – doing more with less.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 12:15 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Good god. Do you posit that Obama's presidency has been a net positive or negative for the nation's economic health?


Very negative. The economic crash of 2007 was a short term crisis brought on by uncontrolled government subsidies for the housing market which created a valuation bubble and excessive debt (much as is going on now in our universities as they raise tuition costs while piling government subsidized debt on the backs of their students - who in turn believe the government won't make them repay ). Eventually the piper must be paid. In any event the recovery from the 2007 crisis was a relatively simple and predictable matter. Subsequent events have revealed that the only remarkable thing about the recovery is that it has been far slower and involved far less economic investment and job creation than all previous recoveries.

Obama's boast a couple of years ago was that Osama Bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive. Now we know that al Quaeda (and now ISIS) are very much alive and growing while GM is again almost dead.
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 12:34 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

snood wrote:

Good god. Do you posit that Obama's presidency has been a net positive or negative for the nation's economic health?


Very negative. The economic crash of 2007 was a short term crisis brought on by uncontrolled government subsidies for the housing market which created a valuation bubble and excessive debt (much as is going on now in our universities as they raise tuition costs while piling government subsidized debt on the backs of their students - who in turn believe the government won't make them repay ). Eventually the piper must be paid. In any event the recovery from the 2007 crisis was a relatively simple and predictable matter. Subsequent events have revealed that the only remarkable thing about the recovery is that it has been far slower and involved far less economic investment and job creation than all previous recoveries.

Obama's boast a couple of years ago was that Osama Bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive. Now we know that al Quaeda (and now ISIS) are very much alive and growing while GM is again almost dead.


I suspected it before, but now I'm sure. Daniel Patrick Moynihan has been credited with the quote "You are entitled to your own opinions. But you are not entitled to your own facts." Au con-dadgummed-traire. There is an alternate universe that diehard conservatives inhabit in which they have their own facts. In conservo-world, the market would right itself, all by itself - naturally, with no intervention like what happened in 2008. In conservo-world, it's better to just keep cutting taxes on the supply side, and everyone benefits.

georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 02:15 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I suspected it before, but now I'm sure. Daniel Patrick Moynihan has been credited with the quote "You are entitled to your own opinions. But you are not entitled to your own facts." Au con-dadgummed-traire. There is an alternate universe that diehard conservatives inhabit in which they have their own facts. In conservo-world, the market would right itself, all by itself - naturally, with no intervention like what happened in 2008. In conservo-world, it's better to just keep cutting taxes on the supply side, and everyone benefits.


An odd criticism coming from one who is himself unfailingly short of any specifics. What praytell might be the "facts" that I have got wrong here? Free markets have been "righting themselves" for as long as human history has recorded the results. An oversupply of something leads to a collapse and then a shortage of it. The natural economic forces restore the situation. It has happened many times before and it will happen again. I find it remarkable that you are unaware of that well-documented fact.
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 02:50 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah, I find you pretty remarkable as well. You criticize Obama based on a theoretical ideal perfected in hindsight. You talk of specifics. What specifically would Republicans have done that would have made the economy better? Their dominant view seems to be that government should just do nothing.

This is a chart from the NYT in 2009 showing comparative growth in GDP and jobs during democratic vs. republican administrations before Obama. Is it coincidence that the economy almost always does better when democrats make taxes higher on the "job-creators"?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3537/3389618417_c320d5e1a3.jpg
Just so I'm clear (for lack of an accurate descriptive word to capture a person's mental condition after having a conservative explain political and economic reality)...
Are you saying that without any economic stimulus, no auto bailout, no reappointment of Bernanke, o action of any kind by the federal government, that the US economy would have recovered on its own, and recovered faster and more fully to now?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 03:22 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Are you saying that without any economic stimulus, no auto bailout, no reappointment of Bernanke, o action of any kind by the federal government, that the US economy would have recovered on its own, and recovered faster and more fully to now?


The junkie is better off if he gets his morning fix than if he does not, but he is still looking at dollar outflows that vastly outpace dollar inflows, a bunch a big bills coming up with no hope of being able to pay, a house that is showing signs of falling apart, and he owes a lot of money to other people who one day are going to expect repayment. THis is not a sustainable situation, saying "well, I got my fix today, life is good!" is the drugs talking not reality.

Did you notice that ten year into emergency measures the Fed this week again decided that the economy is not strong enough to withdraw the emergency measures? And they never will, the patient is going to stay in intensive care until the global economy takes down everyone in a massive depression with lots of social problems, and then we will start over with something else.

As with every junkie nothing is going to get better till we hit bottom. The difference between guys like me and guys like you is that I as still of sound mind enough to see the big picture. You cant anymore.
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 03:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Yeah. Sound mind. Supporting Donald Trump. 'Nuff said.
Ragman
 
  2  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 04:00 pm
@snood,
Donald Trump quote: "I can change the world with a wave of my wand!
Ohh, wait, wait - look, a squirrel!"
snood
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 04:01 pm
@Ragman,
lol
Ragman
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 04:14 pm
@snood,
Seriously despite being a total embarrassment to and for the American political system and the Republican party, he's got the worst case of ADD I've seen in politics.
And he embarrass himself when he exposes how little he actually knows about any important political issues ...offering no concrete solutions or a hint of what his thought-out plans might be. Witness his idea about building a wall between Mexico and USA.

Not to mention his intentional firing up the fears right-wing Republicans and other conservatives over racial issues and fear-mongering about minorities coming to out shores and raising the crime rate and negatively affecting our security.

Anyone who backs him is a fool and would deserve having him as their wedding planner.

Back to Biden, I will back him when the race gets more serious in about 6-8 months. I will probably vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary, though..so he gets his proper attention...now and for the future.

I'm really interested in Elizabeth Warren but this is not the right time for her. Love what she has to say and how she present her ideas.
snood
 
  2  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 05:41 pm
@Ragman,
I hear you about being an embarrassment - the problem with that is none of the Republicans have any shame to speak of. The clown car reactions to Trump's stream of insults, racism and various verbal vomit have been to try to out-crazy him, or feign outrage, or just try to ignore him altogether. The only reaction that would have told me that one of the 17 or 18 GOP candidates had a smidgen of integrity or character would have been to immediately, loudly and completely denounce Trump and all his racist, misogynist, xenophobic dumbassery. They just doubled down and tried to find a way to capitalize on the noise and attention.

The consolation is that we get to watch as Trump slowly fumbles himself to an implosion, and we get to watch all the clown car inhabitants try to act like it never happened.

Not to mention the couple of abysmal jaggoffs on this forum who want to VOTE TRUMP!!
Ragman
 
  2  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 05:50 pm
@snood,
Re certain A2K commentary backing Trump...that's just troll bait.

My prediction is that Trump will be out of the race within the next 30 days.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 06:42 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Are you saying that without any economic stimulus, no auto bailout, no reappointment of Bernanke, o action of any kind by the federal government, that the US economy would have recovered on its own, and recovered faster and more fully to now?


Yes.

The stimulus was a well-known flop; government giveaways for "shovel ready" projects that weren't ready at all. The primary effect was to sustain ineffective state and Federal bureaucracies through hard times and reduced tax collections. General Motors would have emerged from the normal bankriupcy process in far stronger condition than what resulted from the Obama process which was really designed to protect the UAW from the consequences of its own actions. GM today is weak and in serious danger of collapse.

The New York Times is a consistent supporter of Democrat candidates and its charts prove nothing. Correlation isn't causation and the simple fact is that economic poilicies take time to become effective, making simple correlation over time, phased to presidential terms, rather meaningless. The processes governing our economy are many, complex and and not all controlled by presidents.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 07:55 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
My prediction is that Trump will be out of the race within the next 30 days.


that has been the consensus since about May. Eventually it will be true. Or not. We hear a lot of chatter from the chattering class that Trump support is weakening but their record on being right about when R's will fail is horrible. Show me.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 07:59 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
What praytell might be the "facts" that I have got wrong here?


that's rich

you say that you guess something happened - when facts to the contrary are presented, you ignore them and start off on another guess

____

where are the facts you have presented?
snood
 
  3  
Tue 22 Sep, 2015 08:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
My prediction is that Trump will be out of the race within the next 30 days.


that has been the consensus since about May. Eventually it will be true. Or not. We hear a lot of chatter from the chattering class that Trump support is weakening but their record on being right about when R's will fail is horrible. Show me.

Yeah, it has taken a lot longer than anyone guessed. But it's okay - by him being right in center stage all this time, the whole world gets to watch as he slowly babbles his way into infamy as the most ridiculous, deluded, unprepared, clueless person to ever lead the presidential polling. And we here at A2K get to watch as you quickly try to change the subject when Trump the loudmouthed loser is booed off the elective stage - and you were his most vocal support.
0 Replies
 
 

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