80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
maporsche
 
  6  
Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:06 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

They have access to 3 billion currently. They sell political influence, and have amassed quite tidy sums for "public servants," don't you think?


3 billion?? I question that number.

They give speeches, write books, and have lived off of very high salaries for 40 years. I would think they'd be even more wealthy.

But I'd really like to know how donations to the Clinton Foundation (an A+ charity with open financial books) translate into personal wealth for the Clintons? What political influence are they selling? Why should a donation to the Clinton Foundation, which is used for healthcare, education, mosquito nets, etc be considered a bad thing??
MontereyJack
 
  6  
Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:26 pm
@georgeob1,
You really ought to do a little homweork before you spout right wing memes like that ludicrous one. Fannie and Freddie were PROHIBITED BY LAW FROM offering the kind of crap mortgages the private sector could offer, since Bush et al had essentially starved any regulaotry efforts on them, until years after the bubble had started building. Fannie and Freeie's privaate investors started putting pressure on them to get the govermnet to lighten up so they could get some of the money the private institutions wqere getting for their junk mortgages. The GOP was only too happy tlo do just that. Indeed, Fanie and Freeie's share of the mortgage market fgell by close to half during the course of the bubble. It was trhe PRIVATE sector and its high rollers who concvinced themselves totaly falsely there was no risk involved (good WIred article on that and the bogus math) who started and fueled the crisis and collapse.

ASnd I didn't say you said "the worst recession since the Depression". The rest of the world, however, has used that description repeatedly. It's the standard phrase to describe it. If you've never heard it used, it's just another proof that you must live in a hermetically sealed right wing pocket universe.
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 06:42 am
@maporsche,
This isn't a hatchet piece by any means. Establishing sources and amounts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/
parados
 
  6  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 07:03 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
He did note the low number of bills submitted to the president, but failed to adress the either the cause for that or or the relative fractions vetoed.

Perhaps you should actually find out the fact before you make asinine statements about how others are zeroing in in a single element.

Let's start with your second point about the relative fractions vetoed.
Obama vetoed 10 pieces of legislation.
Clinton vetoed 37 pieces of legislation
GHW Bush in 4 years vetoed 44 pieces of legislation
Reagan vetoed 78 pieces of legislation.
If we accept your argument that I didn't address the relative fractions we would have to accept that the number of laws enacted would have to be at least 7.8 times more when Reagan was President, 8.8 times more when GHW Bush was President and 3.7 times more when Clinton was President. That is not even close to being factual. It seems you are simply making crap up george.
It would appear 1184 laws have been enacted under Obama. Under Reagan, 2644 were enacted, about 2.5 times as many laws but 7.8 times as many vetoes. Under Clinton 1826 laws were passed and 37 vetoes.

Now that we have dispensed with your argument that I failed to address the number of vetoes compared to the number of laws perhaps you can address why you made an argument that is factually false.

I will have to deal with your argument of Reid failing to bring bills to the floor. You seem to be completely unaware of how bills become laws. It is a rare occurrence that bills passed in one house go directly to a vote in the other house. The normal procedure is for them to be sent to one or more committees. Until those committees vote on them and send them to the floor there is no way the leader of either house can prevent a vote.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 07:12 am
Meanwhile, more important things are going on, is the motivation for the cyber break in trying to influence the US elections and party majority in particular?

House Democrats Briefed on 'Electronic Watergate Break-In'

excerpt

Quote:
DCCC spokeswoman did not return a request for comment on what was discussed in the call, but Pelosi said in the letter that a senior representative from the Sergeant-At-Arms office and cybersecurity experts involved in the investigation would provide an update and guidance.

Russians are suspected in the recent cyber attacks against Democrats that have targeted databases maintained by the DCCC and the Democratic National Committee.

“This is a sad course of events, not only for us, but more importantly for our country,” Pelosi wrote to her colleagues. She described the attacks as an "electronic Watergate break-in."

The California Democrat, whose phone number was posted online as a result of the breach, said in the letter that she received “scores of mostly obscene and sick calls, voicemails and text messages” on Friday and was planning to change her phone number Saturday.


It seems to me this more important than even all of Trump's antics, Hillary's so called money issues and just about any other political issue right now.
snood
 
  1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 07:27 am
@parados,
Thank you Parados!
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 08:38 am
@revelette2,
Quote revellette:
Quote:
It seems to me this [Russian involvement in hacked Democratic Emails] more important than even all of Trump's antics, Hillary's so called money issues and just about any other political issue right now.

You're completely right, Revellette. Trump's campaign and the GOP is up to its neck in Russian aid and influence in getting the GOP candidate elected. That absolutely is the most important issue in this election.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:19 am
@Blickers,
Can you imagine the stink being made if Hillary and the DNC was being benefited by the Russian cyber hack? Right away a connection would have been made with Hillary making deals during her time as Secretary of State and it wouldn't matter if there was any reason and/or evidence to make the link or not. I mean this is serious business and you hardly hear any of the republican who normally worry about these things saying a word about it. I just hope those who are experts in this sort of thing are taking it seriously.
snood
 
  5  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:22 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Can you imagine the stink being made if Hillary and the DNC was being benefited by the Russian cyber hack? Right away a connection would made with Hillary making deals during her time as Secretary of State and it wouldn't matter if there was any reason to make the link or not. I mean this is serious business and you hardly hear any of the republican who normally worry about these things saying a word about it. I just hope those who are experts in this sort of thing are taking it seriously.

I agree if they were really as concerned about national security as they pretend to be, they would be making more noise about Russia's apparent interest in influencing this election and one candidate. But they have just got to stay on this blockbuster email thing, don't you know.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:23 am
@Lash,
3 billion dollars OVER FORTY-ONE years. They DO NOT have access to 3 billion currently.

God you're either an idiot or a liar. I think the jury is out.

2 billion of that 3 billion has been donated to the Clinton Foundation. That money has been given to poor people around the world. It's an A+ charity. It helps the lives of tens of thousands. it's NOBLE work. It's the BEST thing about the Clinton's.

1 billion has been given to support governors races, 4 presidential campaigns, and two Senate races. That chump change over a FORTY year political career. One presidential election costs more than a billion dollars nowadays.

Idiot or liar???
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:23 am
@revelette2,
I'm sure they're taking it seriously. They may have hacked into Hillary's email, and there may have been some classified material, but the Russians probably had more information before from other government emails. I would think the information would be more political than military.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:28 am
@cicerone imposter,
I am not sure you quite understand what I am referring to. I am referring to the DNC hacked data and emails which involved a lot more than merely Hillary emails. Military secrets are of course important and should be protected. However, we do not want a foreign government trying to interfere and influence our election outcomes and it seems that is what Putin and the Russian hackers are doing.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:44 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Cicerone, It might be useful for you to actually read the articles you post here before you triumphantly cite them here as “proof” of your prejudgments. The fact is the article you cited concludes that, while there are indeed differences in the economic growth rates among various Presidents, those differences have very little to do with the declared policies of either political party i.e. “Presidents have little effect on the economy”.

The article in question reports the analysis of two prominent Princeton Economists Alan Blinder and Mark Watson, reported in an article released by the “National Bureau of Economic Analysis”. The findings of these authors include the following points;
(1) There are significant differences between the GDP growth rates seen by various Presidents, but they are far more driven by external economic events than the declared policies of the presidents and their parties themselves.
(2) The actual fiscal policies of presidents appear on average to be driven more by reaction to those external factors than anything else.
(3) The monetary policies of the various Fed Chairmen are likewise more reactive to external economic events than Presidential policy and have very little correlation with the declared policies of the Party of the Presidents who appointed them.
(4) Defense spending by Presidents was also unrelated to party and more driven by wars and external threats and more or less uniformly distributed across political parties.
(5) Blinder and Watson’s analysis found that U.S. GDP growth over the past eight decades was far more determined by oil price shocks and what they call Total Factor Productivity, which represents the combined effects of advances in science, technology, and business & manufacturing practices than by public policy.

Here is their conclusion’
Quote:
… the performance of the economy is one of the most important factors for voters when they head to the polls. If the economy is doing well the incumbent will, likely win and vice versa But Blinder and Watson have shown that the President has little effect on the economy. Economic performance is determined by factors that are largely outside the control of public policy, or at least the kind of policy that is directly controlled by the Commander-in-Chief.


I don't fully aagree and suspect that our prominent economists were perhaps too focused on the power and niceties of their own art. Public policies do have an economic effecrt, but those effects do indeed operate in a sea of real external factors that often overcome them or turn potentially good ideas in into bad ones. Moreover the effects of poublic policy are cumulative, building (or destroying) on one another and often have long and hard to forecast delay times before their effects are seen.





0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 09:50 am
@Blickers,
Poor Blickers. She focuses on a 2007 "blip" from associated with the collapse of a realestate bubble, from which we revovered in about two years and fails to see the decidedly lower slope of the GDP curve in the following years, compared to what prevasiled from 1980 to 2007. THAT is our problem today.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:12 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

You really ought to do a little homweork before you spout right wing memes like that ludicrous one. Fannie and Freddie were PROHIBITED BY LAW FROM offering the kind of crap mortgages the private sector could offer, since Bush et al had essentially starved any regulaotry efforts on them, until years after the bubble had started building. Fannie and Freeie's privaate investors started putting pressure on them to get the govermnet to lighten up so they could get some of the money the private institutions wqere getting for their junk mortgages. The GOP was only too happy tlo do just that. Indeed, Fanie and Freeie's share of the mortgage market fgell by close to half during the course of the bubble. It was trhe PRIVATE sector and its high rollers who concvinced themselves totaly falsely there was no risk involved (good WIred article on that and the bogus math) who started and fueled the crisis and collapse.

Fannie and Freddy could borrow at lower rates than any bank and they provided cheap capital to the markets - and the private sector lenders - by purchasing the mortage securities issued by the private banks. This fuelled the bubble engine once it got going. The "crap mortgages" to which you refer were the work of Rep. Barney Frank and Maxine Waters who legislated the redlining of mortgages issued by private banks (not those of Fannie and Freddy) requiring them to meet prescribed fraction of social benchmarks without due regard for the borrowers ability to repay them. Like all commodity price pubbles greed and delusion that the party would continue were drivers for all involved, ranging from the politicians to the lenders and many of the borrowers and buyers who were 'flipping' the properties in the pursuit of an imagined continuing rise.

I believe your invective and self righteous indignation are unwarranted by either your demonstrated understanding of these events or your ability to dsescribe them
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:36 am
@georgeob1,
Quote georgeob1:
Quote:
Indeed that one, [2007 recession], in terms of its macroeconomic effects, was no worse than the collapse of the dot.com bubble in 2000 and was far less signioficant than the stagflation left behind by the hapless Jimmy Carter.
Your own words are clearly saying that the 2007 recession was no worse than the recessions of 2000 and 1980. Recessions are measured by drop in inflation-adjusted GDP. Here is the inflation-adjusted GDP since 1950, with the recession of 2007 encircled in red:
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/09440274-a372-4dbf-bc5b-e4572c882149_zps7tkgesv5.jpg

The recession of 2007 is plainly shown to be on a much larger scale than any recession since the chart starts in 1950. So, you're wrong again, and another whole bunch of right wing excuses bite the dust. As usual.

As for the slope of GDP growth being much slower after the 2007 recession than before, the chart doesn't show that either. I post these charts, george, because we all know that your reaction to actual facts is akin to Dracula's reaction to a crucifix. That's why we do it. We A2Kers are the Van Helsings of political and economic discourse.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:45 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Now that we have dispensed with your argument that I failed to address the number of vetoes compared to the number of laws perhaps you can address why you made an argument that is factually false.
You are punching a balloon of your own making and you haven't demonstrated that my original point, that the supposed gridlock thast occured was not the excvlusive work of the Republican Congress was at all false.

parados wrote:

I will have to deal with your argument of Reid failing to bring bills to the floor. You seem to be completely unaware of how bills become laws. It is a rare occurrence that bills passed in one house go directly to a vote in the other house. The normal procedure is for them to be sent to one or more committees. Until those committees vote on them and send them to the floor there is no way the leader of either house can prevent a vote.

You will indeed have to deal with this one, because it is the main issue I had in mind and noted. I suspect your understranding of Senate rules and the powers of the Majority leader with regard to the refferral of legislation to committees, amendments to pending legislation and the the scheduling of debate and votes is quite deficient.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:54 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
I post these charts, george, because we all know that your reaction to actual facts is akin to Dracula's reaction to a crucifix.


Very Happy Laughing Very Happy
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:00 am
@Blickers,
http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2012/recession/pdf/recession_bls_spotlight.pdf

BLS SPOTLIGHT ON STATISTICS THE RECESSION OF 2007–2009
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:13 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

The recession of 2007 is plainly shown to be on a much larger scale than any recession since the chart starts in 1950. So, you're wrong again, and another whole bunch of right wing excuses bite the dust. As usual.
On this point you are correct. In terms of depth and unemplyment effect. 2007 was indeed the worst. I stand corrected.

Blickers wrote:

As for the slope of GDP growth being much slower after the 2007 recession than before, the chart doesn't show that either. I post these charts, george, because we all know that your reaction to actual facts is akin to Dracula's reaction to a crucifix. That's why we do it. We A2Kers are the Van Helsings of political and economic discourse.

Here it is you who are wrong, Van Helsing. It is easy to visually see the difference in slopes of the GDP growth curve you posted both before and after the 2007 recession. If you doubt that simply calculate it yourself by comparing the real GDP values over comparative time periods and calculating the average. The recent decline in the post recession growth rate is indeed large and significant.

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