80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 12:57 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:

If requiring IDs for all voters to limit duplicate voting and voting by the dead or non citizens (the traditional activities of several prominent Democrat political machines) constitutes discrimination against blacks, then do exactly the same requirements for the TSA at airports and for credit card purchases of $300 or more, or cash withdrawls from banks also constitute discrimination?

IDs don't limit duplicate voting.
There is no evidence that the dead are voting in any numbers.
IDs at the polls don't stop non citizens from voting and there is no evidence of non citizens voting in any numbers.

The TSA requesting IDs does nothing to eliminate duplicate flying or the dead flying or non citizens from flying.
Banks asking for IDs does nothing to eliminate duplicate withdrawals nor the dead from making withdrawals nor does it prevent non citizens from making withdrawals.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 01:15 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

As Farmerman pointed out, you've made a pretty shady omission in disregarding the broad move of the Dixiecrats into the Republican party. It is one of the most significant political realignments of the last century. You know this history, surely, so why the pretense it didn't happen?
I merely noted the fact that there was relatively more Republican support for the Voting Rights act when it was enacted than Democrat. The Dixiecrats are no more, and I reject your suggestion that the Republican legislatures (where they exist) in the South are their equivalent. Things change over time, though it is apparent your prejudices don't.

blatham wrote:
I put a question to you at the end of my last post. Can you respond to it, please. If a libertarian scheme of governance (of the sort you favor) is as effective in producing broad prosperity and liberty in a nation, one would expect to see some fine instances of the thing extant in the world. I see no such thing.
I've offered several questions and topics for your comment, but note that you avoid responding to any that might create difficulty for you. Read my last few posts.

As for the economic effects of progressiveism, they show a great deal of what biologists call hormesis. A little of it is good for you (Indeed none at all can be harmful) but increasing doses do increasing harm with an end point of death. The presence of various metals in the body is a good example (Iron, aresenic, selenium and others are all essential in small quantities but fatal in large doses.

As for the example you seek, consider the United States during the past two centuries and the slow down we have been experiencing for the last two decades. Throughout the 2oth century we led Europe in economic performance and growth by large margins - even after consideration of their self-induced wartime destruction. Today only two European nations rank higher than the USA in ppp GDP/capita : they are Norway and Switzerland (I'm omitting Monaco & Luxembourg). Norway is an exception to all rules due to its small population and oil wealth: Switzerland is far more libertarian and less social democratic than all its European Neighbors. Our GDP/capita is more than 22% higher than that of Canada, and as well, Austria, Ireland, Sweden and Iceland (the top ranked EU nations); over 30% higher than those of Germany, France Denmark and the UK; 70% higher than those of southern and Eastern EU nations.etc. Interestingly Hong Kong has a GDP/capita about equal to ours and it is a model of free market caaitalism.

blatham wrote:
If there are no such examples, yet in contrast many examples of highly successful and free nations which operate with progressive systems, how can you or anyone else have any confidence at all that your notion will work? I don't quite get this.

Well, as noted above there are numerous examples of relative economic performance measures that contradict your unsupported statements.. The subject is, of course, more complex than can be fully represented by a single statistic. However I note that you have offered nothing whatever to support your many broadly stated opinions.

georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 01:25 pm
@parados,
Parados .... pedantic, forced and trivial as usual.

There really is no level to which Parados will not stoop.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 01:42 pm
@georgeob1,
At least Pard dosent lie to himself like you do. Voting ID is a republican scam to keep liberal voting as low as people like you want to keep it. Facts prove that out of 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005 only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud. Only 26 were convicted or a percentage of .00000013. Voter ID laws are a republican scam to deny liberals the right to vote. In the future when the liberals deny the white minority the vote remember this shyt.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 01:52 pm
@RABEL222,
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/aug/09/viral-image/viral-image-about-voter-fraud-completely-baseless/

FACT: voter-fraud-completely-baseless
maporsche
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:21 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
If requiring IDs for all voters to limit duplicate voting and voting by the dead or non citizens (the traditional activities of several prominent Democrat political machines) constitutes discrimination against blacks, then do exactly the same requirements for the TSA at airports and for credit card purchases of $300 or more, or cash withdrawls from banks also constitute discrimination?


Sure they do...but none of those things are constitutional rights CRITICAL to a representative government.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
FACT: voter-fraud-completely-baseless


Based on the content of a meme. You don't actually think voter fraud doesn't happen do you?
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:31 pm
@Baldimo,
It happens, but it's miniscule. When caught, the penalty isn't worth the fraud.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:32 pm
@maporsche,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-voter-fraud/2011/10/04/gIQAkjoYTL_story.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/voter-id-laws-donald-trump.html?_r=0
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Minuscule because they don't catch everyone.
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:44 pm
@Baldimo,
Indeed very little effort is invested in enforcing these laws anywhere in the country. It's a bit like our southern Border: the government doesn't enforce its own rules and the Democrat apologists call any effort to enforce existing law racist or isolationist or some other like nonsensical label. Despite that voter fraud has a long, rich history in this country, most of it involving entrenched Democrat political machines in St Louis, New York , Chicago and other large cities. The well-documented story of the 1960 Presidential election fraud in Cook County Il. is instructive here .

maporsche
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:48 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Indeed very little effort is invested in enforcing these laws anywhere in the country. It's a bit like our southern Border: the government doesn't enforce its own rules and the Democrat apologists call any effort to enforce existing law racist or isolationist or some other like nonsensical label. Despite that voter fraud has a long, rich history in this country, most of it involving entrenched Democrat political machines in St Louis, New York , Chicago and other large cities. The well-documented story of the 1960 Presidential election fraud in Cook County Il. is instructive here .





Don't republicans control like 33 state's elections boards right now? Why aren't the enforcing the laws already on the books?

To take an POV from the pro-gun people.....enforce the laws already on the books and if that's still not effective then we can talk about others.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Penalties for Voter Fraud

The criminal penalty for fraudulently voting when not legally qualified or for voting more than once when qualified is a fine of $300 to $500, one to two years in prison, and disenfranchisement. Anyone who votes or attempts to vote by assuming the name of another is subject to a fine of $500, one year in prison, and disenfranchisement (CGS § 9-360).

Other types of fraudulent voting violations carry stiffer penalties. Voting in violation of absentee ballot laws is punishable by a fine of up to $5,000, up to five years in prison, or both (CGS §9-359). The same penalty applies to anyone who votes or refuses to vote in consideration of anything of value (CGS §§ 9-333x and 9-333y)). With respect to the latter offense, the commission can also (1) impose a civil penalty of $2,000 per offense or twice the amount of any improper payment or contribution, whichever is greater; (2) issue an order for the recipient to return the item of value; (3) issue an order revoking the intentional violators' eligibility to be appointed or serve as an election, primary, or referendum official or unofficial checker or in any capacity at the polls (CGS § 9-7b(2) and (3)).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 03:59 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Don't republicans control like 33 state's elections boards right now? Why aren't the enforcing the laws already on the books?.


Good question. I expect the answer is the **** storm that would come from the Democrat apologists who dominate the media. Just consdider the voter ID issue.

Though Parados oddly believes that checking IDs is ineffective in enforcing asnything, it appears the TSA, credit card companies, banks and many other like organizations believe otherwise.

parados
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:28 pm
@georgeob1,
Facts are so pedantic. It's so much freer to just make **** up and call anyone that points out facts, "Pedantic".
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:31 pm
@georgeob1,
Hmm.. so you think the government should check your ID EVERY time you pick up a gun?

That would be equivalent to the government checking your ID every time you vote. Both are rights in the US Constitution.
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:36 pm
@parados,
Well I suspect the government would wish to check IDs everytime a gun user shoots someone.

Only a pedant like yourself would find your pedantry hard to detect. Meaningless, trivial and tiresome. I couldn't make that **** up if I tried.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:50 pm
Since George seems to enjoy it so much, here is some leftist apologist being pedantic.

Quote:
BACKGROUND

Voter ID laws are becoming increasingly common across the country. Today, 30 states require voters to present identification to vote in federal, state and local elections, although some laws passed during the 2011 legislative session have not yet gone into effect. In 15 of those states, voters must present a photo ID – that in many states must be government-issued – in order to cast a ballot.

Many Americans do not have the necessary identification that these laws require, and face barriers to voting as a result. Research shows, for example, that more than 21 million Americans do not have government-issued photo identification; a disproportionate number of these Americans are low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, and elderly.

Voter ID laws have the potential to deny the right to vote to thousands of registered voters who do not have, and, in many instances, cannot obtain the limited identification states accept for voting. Many of these Americans cannot afford to pay for the required documents needed to secure a government-issued photo ID. As such, these laws impede access to the polls and are at odds with the fundamental right to vote.

VOTING IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE
• Nothing is more fundamental to our democracy than the right to vote.
• The right to vote is protected by more constitutional amendments - the 1st, 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th - than any other right we enjoy as Americans.
• There are additional federal and state statutes which guarantee and protect voting rights, as well as declarations by the Supreme Court that the right to vote is fundamental because it is protective of all our other rights.

VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM
• There is no credible evidence that in-person impersonation voter fraud -- the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – is even a minor problem.
• Proponents of voter ID laws have failed to demonstrate that individual, in -person voter fraud is even a minor problem anywhere in the country.
• Multiple studies have found that almost all cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are the result of a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent.
• It is important, instead, to focus on both expanding the franchise and ending practices which actually threaten the integrity of the elections, such as improper purges of voters, voter harassment, and distribution of false information about when and where to vote. None of these issues, however, are addressed or can be resolved with a photo ID requirement.

NO ELIGIBLE CITIZEN SHOULD HAVE TO PAY TO VOTE
• Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them.
• In addition, states incur sizable costs when providing IDs to voters who do not have them. Given the financial strain many states already are experiencing, this is an unnecessary allocation of taxpayer dollars.

VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY
• Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.
• The Supreme Court has held that a state cannot value one person’s vote over another and that is exactly what these laws do.
• Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans -- do not have government-issued photo identification.
• As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts.
• 18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID.
• In 2008, it was widely reported that Indiana’s voter ID law disfranchised 12 nuns who were trying to vote in the primary election. The nuns were all over 80 years old, all had a history of voting in past elections, and none of them drove. Their limited mobility made it difficult for them to get an ID.

VOTER ID LAWS LIMIT VOTERS’ ACCESS TO THE VOTING BOOTH AND HINDER THEIR RIGHT TO CAST A BALLOT
• Voter ID laws restrict access to the voting booth. Rather than erecting hurdles that prevent Americans from voting, lawmakers must ensure that every eligible voter is allowed to vote, and that every vote counts.
• Any requirement that citizens show government-issued photo ID at the polls reintroduces an enormous amount of discretion into the balloting process, thus creating opportunities for discrimination at the polls against racial, ethnic and language minority voters.
• Most polling places rely on volunteers or poll workers with minimal training to check in voters and answer questions. There is a risk that inadequately trained workers could turn away and disfranchise even properly documented voters.

OUR COUNTRY HAS COME A LONG WAY SINCE THE PASSAGE OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT; VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE A STEP BACKWARDS
• Voter ID requirements are a dangerous and misguided step backwards in our ongoing quest for a more democratic society.
• Elected officials should be seeking ways to encourage more voters, not inventing excuses to deny voters the ability to cast their ballots. Photo ID requirements present substantial barriers to voting and negatively effect voter participation.
• Today, 30 states have enacted discriminatory voter ID laws that prevent citizens from voting, and more states are considering such restrictive and discriminatory laws.
• The history of our nation is characterized by a gradual expansion of voting rights. As our democracy continued to evolve with the right to vote has been expanded to include most Americans.


source

(I suspect George has had his nose out joint with someone calling him pedantic and he is now enjoying calling other people the same whether it fits or not doesn't matter.)
georgeob1
 
  -4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:58 pm
@revelette2,
Nonsense. If voter ID laws are discriminatory so is the Transportation Security Agency; so are every DMV office, Bank, credit card agency and most retail merchants in the country. in the country
revelette2
 
  4  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 06:53 pm
@georgeob1,
You are being obtuse, driving and riding is not a right in the US, neither are credit cards. Did you not read about the eighty year old nuns who didn't have drivers license and their limited mobility made it difficult for them to obtain a proper ID. It is like we have to pay to vote now in some states and not everyone can afford to do so easily (copies of documents cost money) nor know how to do it.

I am betting you didn't even read the article from ACLU.
 

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