80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
nimh
 
  4  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 05:47 pm
@Lash,
No offence but I find that a little vague, as answer to the question at hand. What does that mean, concretely, in this context, that "sometimes you have to break something to build it better"? Would Trump winning the election be the breaking of things? And would that give the cited bit of hope because it would make it possible to build something (the Dem party?) better?

If that's what you mean - but it's hard to tell, really - that sounds a bit Leninist. Heightening the contradictions etc. As in, it's good if things get worse, because strategically that will make it more likely that people are driven to the revolution we propose. Considering the amount of real, human, concrete suffering that was always involved in the "things getting worse" part, I've always considered that a horrendously cynical perspective (which in the case of the Leninists of course foreshadowed their wanton lack of regard for human life etc). Bernie would definitely not agree with such a perspective, that's for sure.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:03 pm
@revelette2,
There might be a very big story here. I'm trying to catch up.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:08 pm
Quote:
Who was behind all of this? When I stumbled on it last fall, I had an idea. I was already investigating a shadowy organization in St. Petersburg, Russia, that spreads false information on the Internet. It has gone by a few names, but I will refer to it by its best known: the Internet Research Agency. The agency had become known for employing hundreds of Russians to post pro-Kremlin propaganda online under fake identities, including on Twitter, in order to create the illusion of a massive army of supporters; it has often been called a “troll farm.” The more I investigated this group, the more links I discovered between it and the hoaxes. In April, I went to St. Petersburg to learn more about the agency and its brand of information warfare, which it has aggressively deployed against political opponents at home, Russia’s perceived enemies abroad and, more recently, me.
http://nyti.ms/2am3nNY
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:24 pm
@Lash,
Hey Lash? Where is your statement about good old honest Bernie hacking the democratic Hillary site? Maybe thats where the e-mails that were released by wiki-leaks came from.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:30 pm
@nimh,
Let me try to clear up my personal voting preference for you since you seem interested. I'm only voting for candidates I want to vote for.

Right now, I want to vote for Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:33 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I dont see caucuses being talked about. Its about people who arnt really democrats trying to control the party with fewer voting people just like the republican party. Bernie wasent ever a democrat and he isent one now. He gave a speech about backing Hillary and his so called people booed him and yelled Bernie, Bernie! His help Hillary response was thank you, thank you. He reveled in their adulation. Help Hillary, in your dreams.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:36 pm
@snood,
Nice dodge

By most, if not all, accounts, Nixon would have beat Jimmy Carter or any Dem challenger, however he wanted more certitude so he authorized the stupid break-in of DNC HQ.

Clinton was always going to beat Sanders, but like Nixon, she wanted certitude.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:39 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Tonight I was imagining four or five years up the road when things haven't gone well for Donald. He's busking in the NY subway at Penn Station. He's in blackface and doing field holler songs.


Quite the imagination.

Did you also imagine a time in the world where from each according to his ability and for each according to his need?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:44 pm
@blatham,
Gosh, paranoid much?

Republican operatives on the floor of the Dem convention posing as Berners.

More of your vivid imagination?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:49 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

This isn't about governance, it is about power.


Wow...you've finally posted something on point, although I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it should be interpreted.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:53 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Tonight I was imagining four or five years up the road when things haven't gone well for Donald. He's busking in the NY subway at Penn Station. He's in blackface and doing field holler songs.


I have had some weird dreams and I also imagine trump singing but I wonder if your imagination is similar to my about how trump sings.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:56 pm
One of Sanders' great heroes is Eugene V. Debs, a person most of you probably never heard of.

Debs was about as committed a Socialist as America has ever seen on it's political stage (and that includes Sanders).

He ran for President 5 times between 1900 & 1920, was jailed at least twice; once for violating Woodrow Wilson's (that paragon of Progressives) unjust Espionage Act, by promoting defiance of the WWI draft.

Just like Debs, Sanders never actually thought he could be elected President, but, also like Debs, hoped to spark a "socialist revolution." This is why you are going to hear Bernie go on and on about the movement while betraying it by endorsing Clinton.

Unlike Sanders, Debs never threw his support to another candidate in any of the 5 races in which he ran. As well, Debs didn't wait for the end of a cushy political career to promote the ideals he held so strongly. I'm sure Sanders thinks he's honored his hero in this election cycle and to some degree he has, but when it comes down to it, he's willing to compromise his principles, in favor of a foolish belief that the Clinton Establishment can't or won't crush his movement, and a desire to retain some semblance of power.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Ok, let's say you're right about everything wrong with Hillary Clinton. Why don't you spend any time extolling the huge virtues of the Republican candidate?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 06:59 pm
@snood,
Because I don't think he has "huge virtues"

Unlike you I don't live in a binary world.
snood
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yeah you're constantly demonstrating your open-mindedness. Nice chatting with you.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:10 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Hope of what?


Hope of us becoming a Russian satellite under Trump.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:18 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
Why do you suppose Hillary is running so hard?

The quest for high office, by anyone, reveals a quest for power. But that wasn't the point. One can seek to attain a powerful position through all sorts of means but where those means involve the degrading of civic trust, the obstruction of governance (to ensure the opponent cannot achieve goals that demonstrate that governance can help citizens), the use of misinformation, etc then the nature of the quest itself reveals the person(s) involved unworthy for power.


I suspect that Bernie Sanders and his supporters would agree that you have described Hillary very well.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:18 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote blatham:
Quote:
Hope of what?


Quote rabel22:
Quote:
Hope of us becoming a Russian satellite under Trump.


And in return Trump's family builds Trump Towers in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Russia. Sounds fair. After all, the business of government is America's business. This will never be more true if Trump gets elected.
snood
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:21 pm
Sarah Silverman just told the Bernie or Bust people "You're being ridiculous!"
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Mon 25 Jul, 2016 07:28 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

And re george's and others hatred/mistrust of Hillary, this is really the thing (outside of tribal loyalty, that is).
Quote:

As former New York Times editor-in-chief Jill Abramson wrote, “I would be ‘dead rich,’ to adapt an infamous Clinton phrase, if I could bill for all the hours I’ve spent covering just about every ‘scandal’ that has enveloped the Clintons.” After all that investigation, Abramson concluded that Clinton “is fundamentally honest and trustworthy.” But the appearance of perpetual scandal surrounding Clinton can make it seem as if she must be hiding something monstrous, especially to those who are predisposed against her.


And that's why they keep doing it and will continue doing it. This isn't about governance, it is about power.


You are making the implausable suggestion that all the talk and writing about Clinton corruption, scandals and coverups is the result of a "vast right wing conspiracy" and none of it originating from the actions of the Clintons themselves. That is nonsense.

I take it you believe Hillary is merely interested in (good) governance while her opponents want "power". You are making an exceedingly fine distinction here. and one that flies in the face of the now well-known Clinton adaptability and ability to seem as all things to all people. That doesn't pass the laugh test.
0 Replies
 
 

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