80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
Blickers
 
  5  
Tue 19 Jul, 2016 10:16 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Hillary knew she was violating State Department guidelines. She also knew she was very likely exposing top secret emails to foreign government hackers.

She thought she was following State Department guidelines, which only said that Emails must be recorded. Hillary correctly figured that since the government Email accounts automatically copies all incoming Email, that by sending work related Emails to a staffer on the State Deprtment that a copy was automaticaly made by the Email system. She felt this fulfilled the rules.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
nd she has not only lied repeatedly, she has lied incessantly. Every single statement that she has made regarding the matter has been a lie.
Simply not true at all. A person can be mistaken, that does not mean they told a lie.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:06 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
So you're reposting an article that is 2 weeks old. No new information is to be gained in that article. I suppose you simply plan to keep up the constant thread of negative posts about Hillary, even when the media doesn't cooperate by finding new scandals. You'll just keep on repeating stuff to keep it from aging.

Liberals come up with all sorts of excuses to justify their wrongdoing. The idea that their wrongdoing only matters if it happened within the past 30 seconds is one of their more goofy excuses.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:07 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Is your point the similarity of the points made in the two speeches? OK. So what? The permissable breadth of the speeches of the spouses of candidates isn't very broad, and it would be interesting to see a larger sample of such works to detect the prevailing norms for such things.

Is this important to you?

Actually the alleged plagiarism was only one small part of what was an outstanding speech.

The Left are only harping on it because they wish that they had a fraction of the class that Melania has.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:08 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
This is yet another example of the Trump's camp dishonesty.

That's silly. It was one insignificant part of what was overall a very good speech. The idea that it was done deliberately is ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:10 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
The brighter ones (like Kagan) have already publicly stated that their vote will be going to Clinton this cycle. But boy are they rare.

It really is preposterous when liberals equate "support for liberalism" with intelligence.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:26 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
She thought she was following State Department guidelines, which only said that Emails must be recorded. Hillary correctly figured that since the government Email accounts automatically copies all incoming Email, that by sending work related Emails to a staffer on the State Deprtment that a copy was automaticaly made by the Email system. She felt this fulfilled the rules.

Hillary went out of her way to make sure that the State Department never had an opportunity to tell her whether her server would violate the rules. This shows that she knew that they would tell her that her server was against the rules.


Blickers wrote:
Simply not true at all. A person can be mistaken, that does not mean they told a lie.

I agree with the principle. I always wince these days when I see posters on a2k calling each other liars. I think that 99.99999% of all people who are accused of lying on a2k honestly believe that they are posting the truth. (And sometimes they actually are posting the truth. If I had a nickle for every time someone called me a liar when I was telling the truth, I could buy something really nice for myself.)

I know years ago I would denounce really egregious untruths as lies, but I've come to think that things would be much better if everyone stopped accusing other posters of dishonesty.

However in Hillary's case, I find it questionable that she continuously says so many untrue things.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 08:14 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
So you're reposting an article that is 2 weeks old. No new information is to be gained in that article. I suppose you simply plan to keep up the constant thread of negative posts about Hillary, even when the media doesn't cooperate by finding new scandals. You'll just keep on repeating stuff to keep it from aging.

Liberals come up with all sorts of excuses to justify their wrongdoing. The idea that their wrongdoing only matters if it happened within the past 30 seconds is one of their more goofy excuses.

Absolutely. When a valid criticism is leveled against one of their sacred cows, they start going down a completely irrelevant list of peripheral complaints. Age of article seems to be the most pathetic.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 08:39 am
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
She thought she was following State Department guidelines, which only said that Emails must be recorded. Hillary correctly figured that since the government Email accounts automatically copies all incoming Email, that by sending work related Emails to a staffer on the State Deprtment that a copy was automaticaly made by the Email system. She felt this fulfilled the rules.


Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Hillary went out of her way to make sure that the State Department never had an opportunity to tell her whether her server would violate the rules. This shows that she knew that they would tell her that her server was against the rules.

No, since everyone in the State Department and most of the rest of the government knew she had a private server. Colin Powell used a private Email account and nobody kicked up a fuss. Hillary took the same secure situation that her ex-President husband used for her private Email account, and then sent any work related Emails to her State Department assistants or people in other government departments, (where they were automatically recorded by the government Email system), and thereby fulfulled the requirement at the time that her Emails must be recorded. She thought she was okay doing this. She was wrong, but there was no indication that she knew she was breaking the rules.

As maporsche said, for better or worse top senior government officials are in the 50-to-70 year old age group, and they were all out of school and college for decades before they every put their hands on a computer. That's why things like this happen. Incidentally, there was no indication that we know for sure Hillary's server was hacked, and we absolutely know for sure the State Department server was hacked. Security-wise, the country might well have come out ahead by Hillary using her own server.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 08:52 am
My friend at the Washington Post gets to something very important here
Quote:
Donald Trump completed his takeover of the GOP last night, officially securing the nomination — on an evening, fittingly enough, that was ostensibly about the economy but devolved at times into angry chants about throwing Hillary Clinton in prison.

Such talk is common among Republicans and GOP-aligned media elites, of course. Much of the time it’s mainly about supplying care and feeding to a GOP base. But this time, the chants of “lock her up” hinted at something more. Tellingly, they came amid increasing signs that Republicans think they are going to lose this election, which suggests that this might also represent an effort — perhaps only intended at this point in the dimmest of ways — to delegitimize Clinton’s presidency in advance, should she win.
http://wapo.st/29TwOWi

Read the whole intro to his blog post this morning because he fleshes this out rather more completely.

Greg, and Brian Beutler who he quotes, get this exactly right. This is the style of modern GOP political strategy. It is consistent, thus completely predictable. Obama is a Muslim, Obama was not born in the USA - such narratives have the aim of de-legitimizing Obama as President.

Here's another example. Several months ago, a neoconservative writing an op ed in the Post included the following sentences...
Quote:
"Even if a third candidacy still yielded a Clinton Victory, it would be worthwhile. It would, first, deny the Clinton Campaign the illusion of a mandate from American voters who would have, en masse, turned out to reject Trump"


Note that Greg steps gingerly here and does not make the claim that such a strategy was in place except in the "dimmest" sort of manner. I think he's right to forward the point as he has. Those people yelling, "Lock her up!" aren't working from some careful strategy setting up for 2018 or 2020. They are just manifesting a mindset and a zest for demonization of the opponent in the crudest and stupidest ways.

But this sort of rhetoric, this sort of thinking, will continue after Hillary is elected. "Investigations" will continue. Old and new scandals will be cooked up or reheated. Obstruction will be constant and unflagging. Is it possible that what was done with Garland will be attempted with any and every other Supreme Court nominee? Yes, it is possible to likely even though there is no precedent for a such a thing.

And the fundamental narrative/rationale for such destructive and anti-democratic behavior will be what Greg points to - that Hillary or Obama or any Dem occupying the White House will be there without legitimacy. This is axiomatic. Liberal or progressive policies and their political representatives are no longer legitimately American. What American voters conclude is irrelevant. They are (they must necessarily be) by axiomatic formulation, hoodwinked and deluded.

The cover story (aside from the claims and statements meant to de-legitimize Hillary or whomever) is that as a matter of morals, ethics and principles, the Dem holding the office MUST BE STOPPED so that America does not come to ruin and collapse. Conservatives are thus obliged to wield whatever weapons might be at their disposal to prevent this catastrophe to America and Western civilization.



0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  5  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 09:01 am
After dealing with republicans and others who have sought to make Obama's presidency a failure from before day one, the best way to deal with these trying to make it seem like Hillary won't have a mandate is to totally marginalize them. The only way to do that is that democrats and those who vote democrat need to vote democrat or those vote democrat into office in the Senate and the House and all open governor seats across the country. I hope that point is made at the convention.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 09:41 am
@Blickers,
Blickers' defense of Hillary's actions doesn't get any more believable with the constant repetition.

Government secure e mail systems are monitored and have substantial defenses from hackers. Hacking is difficult but possible, but intrusions can be detected and in many cases shut off. Hillary's server had no such protection and no monitoring. Hacking into it would be a relatively simple chore and would leave no detectable traces. Several hackers already have claimed to have done the job, and the prident assumption in the intelligence services is that it was hacked repeatedly. Blicker's claim that no hacks occurred is pure deception.

Colin Powell occasionally used his personal e mail account in the course of official business as he has disclosed. However, the use was occasional, not exclusive as in Hillary's case, and he didn't set up an elaborate off line private system as Hillary did. Moreover the Department policies in effect a decade ago when Powell was Secretary were far less stringent than those later established by the Security & intelligence sservices and, in the case of the State Department, issued by queen Hillary herself.

I did however enjoy reading the senility defense Blickers put forward. Both Clintons have indeed surrounded themselves with a retinue of personal assistants, many in the employ of their foundation, who insulate them from the details and annoyances or real life. They inhabit a very different world from that of us lesser mortals and for them the rules don't apply. These are indeed circumstances that would enervate the abilities and moral sense of anyone who inhabits it.
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:16 am
@georgeob1,
Quote georgeob1:
Quote:
Both Clintons have indeed surrounded themselves with a retinue of personal assistants, many in the employ of their foundation, who insulate them from the details and annoyances or real life.

The last Clinton in the White House delivered a 3.8% annual GDP growth rate and 16 Million Full Time jobs gained in two terms. The conservative following them LOST 2.6 Million Full Time jobs in the final quarter alone. Now, who is that you say was insulated from "reality"?

Quote georgeob1:
Quote:
Blickers' defense of Hillary's actions doesn't get any more believable with the constant repetition.

Most of your posts, (which consist of the same old rightwing talking points repeated over and over), got that musty smell a long time ago, george. Try some Lysol, it works great.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:19 am
@Blickers,
Brilliant argument ! Fact-filled, lucid and and compelling in it's logic.
Blickers
 
  2  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:21 am
@georgeob1,
I edited it while you were posting. Care to comment further? I don't want to be accused of playing dirty pool.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:24 am
@Blickers,
No because it is merely more of your gorilla dust, meant to distract the dialogue from indefensible points you are, once again, evading.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:30 am
@georgeob1,
No George, the claim that no hacks occurred was verified by the IT people of the State Department. The experts testified that although attempts were made, they were not successful and the experts know who was behind the attempts. When someone presents you with facts, and you don't like the facts because they don't fit your narrative, it's not deception.

By the way, I also enjoy reading your scrambled assertions of 'facts', I'm sure you appear very knowledgeable to folks who don't have a clue how the State dept., FBI, various Intell agencies operate or how the career employees of these agencies perform their duties. Keep in mind that occasionally you will not be pontificating to the gullible. You're a very bright man with a penchant for ridicule, if I were you I wouldn't double down on issues you really don't understand. I can guess why you are so passionate in your contempt for Hillary but you will look like a utter fool if you try to share these half baked notions with anyone who has actually worked as an executive in these arena's. Washington is a big mystery to a large segment of the population, but when you live and work here, its a very small village.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:43 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Government secure e mail systems

I see where you're confused.... Believe me, there are no secure government E-mail servers.


georgeob1 wrote:
are monitored and have substantial defenses from hackers.

Can you describe even one "substantial defense?" Have you personally audited "the government's" e-mail servers to make sure they're compliant?

georgeob1 wrote:
Hacking is difficult but possible,

Hacking is trivial. Most systems are weeks, months or even years behind in having security patches applied.


georgeob1 wrote:
but intrusions can be detected and in many cases shut off.

Most intrusions are never detected. Those that are detected are usually reported to the institution by law enforcement (like when large quantities of credit card numbers are offered for sale), not found through internal controls.

georgeob1 wrote:
Hillary's server had no such protection and no monitoring.

Citation?

georgeob1 wrote:
Hacking into it would be a relatively simple chore and would leave no detectable traces.

Possibly true, but I've heard no indications that the server was actually compromised.


georgeob1 wrote:
Several hackers already have claimed to have done the job, and the prident assumption in the intelligence services is that it was hacked repeatedly.

"Guccifer" claimed to have hacked the server, but was later found to have been lying.

It is prudent to assume any device has been or can be hacked, but that applies to government systems as well.



georgeob1 wrote:
Blicker's claim that no hacks occurred is pure deception.

A better description would probably be to say, "there are no indications that sensitive information was compromised."





I won't quote the rest of what you said, because it's the standard "it was OK when OUR guy did it, but it is HORRIBLE when CLINTON did it" talking points.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 10:48 am
@glitterbag,
FBI Director Comey very specifically addressed this issue in his statement.

The FBI found no evidence of her account being hacked but pointed out that the people most interested in the secrets it contained are technologically sophisticated enough to not have left any evidence of their intrusions. Thus, he concluded, a hack or hacks was still a possibility.

That her system didn't contain even the level of the security found on G-Mail, and that she repeatedly used it while on the ground in countries that have the capabilities and incentive to hack a cellphone or blackberry, strongly suggests it was hacked.

Now you can take the position that the Chinese, Russians et al, have too much integrity or were too stupid to walk through a wide open door to US secrets, but it is an incredible one.

Apparently you trust the State Department (filled with Clinton loyalists) over the FBI.
glitterbag
 
  5  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 11:17 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
No, but I do understand the difference between the State department's mission (diplomacy) and the FBI (law informant) You must have not been watching when Elijah Cummings asked Comey if he was aware of the clarifications delivered to Congress regarding the charge of classified email. Turns out, he was in front of the Committee when further clarification was delivered to the committee.
I can only assume you have no clue what kind of work is performed by the National Security Agency. Of all people you think could find the Russians or Chinese harmless, you should be embarrassed by the innuendo. What's next, you love this country more than I do?
As far as the FBI, Comey said they know who attempted to hack the Sec. account, but they were not successful. He also chose not to reveal who the bad actors were in open session, but would inform the committee later.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jul, 2016 12:08 pm
@glitterbag,
Glad you're able to poo poo Finn.
0 Replies
 
 

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