80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:16 am
@revelette2,
I think it's just as bad to vote automatically as it is to skip voting.

Those habits don't give the party incentive to find better/stronger candidates to develop for future roles in the party.

Both major American parties clearly need to work on their strengthening their vision and their young candidate base. Both parties are ending up with old (far too old by my standard) candidates for the presidency. The Democrats really had no one to choose from and the Republicans had so many odd choices it seemed to confuse them.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:16 am
@maporsche,
This nation gets the government we deserve. Vote third party and take it back.
maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:21 am
@Lash,
No, I'm good.

I rather like Hillary.

And honestly, I consider being on the side you're not to be a safe place to be.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:23 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The fact is he has a pretty good record as a loyal Democrat.


Quote:
Although Comey was a registered Republican for most of his adult life, he disclosed during Congressional testimony on July 7, 2016 that he is no longer registered in any party.[63] In the past Comey donated to U.S. Senator John McCain’s campaign in the 2008 presidential election and to Governor Mitt Romney’s campaign in the 2012 presidential election.[64]
wikipedia

___

where in the world do you get your information? (it's actually pretty easy to figure out - you're posting a straight Fox News line)

revelette2
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:25 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I think it's just as bad to vote automatically as it is to skip voting.



In theory, you are probably right, however, right now we are in fight against republicans to change course, to do that you need a majority if not a supermajority in congress and the WH. Something we had for a very brief time while Obama has been office with the result of terrible gridlock to say the least. You are also right when it comes to primaries, you need to know which person to vote for and who has the better ideas.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:29 am
@ehBeth,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2016/07/05/comey-fbi-clinton-email/#13878d7c1da8

Quote:
FBI Director James B. Comey announced Tuesday morning that the FBI will recommend that no charges be filed against Hillary Clinton as a result of the FBI inquiry into her handling of her email while Secretary of State.

No doubt Republicans will launch nasty attacks on Comey and Hillary alike.

But, for several reasons, the FBI’s decision on Clinton will prove even more powerful on close study.

First, the No. 1 attack will be that Democratic influence, not the merits of Hillary’s position, got the FBI to clear her.

But before buying into the notion of Democratic influence on Comey, look at his own record, which is as solidly Republican as they come.

He identifies himself as Republican. He served as counsel on the 1996 Republican Senate Whitewater Committee, run by Sen. Al D’Amato, which relentlessly and fiercely excoriated the Clintons.

President George W. Bush appointed him U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, then Bush promoted him to Deputy Attorney General, the second post in Justice. He ran the Department for Bush under John Ashcroft and Alberto Morales. He gave campaign contributions to McCain and Romney. Come on. Does Comey’s Republican background have to be tattooed on him to be accepted?

Second, Comey said “no reasonable prosecutor” would indict her. So, the second attack will be that, somehow, Comey’s judgment is not to be accepted.

But, he has one of the finest sets of prosecutorial credentials in the country. In the NY federal prosecution office, he served for many years as a line prosecutor and then supervisor. He took on the tough and high profile cases, from the Gambino crime family to Martha Stewart.

As Deputy Attorney General he supervised all — yes all — the nation’s federal prosecutions. To put it differently, his prosecutorial judgment has been refined in scores, if not hundreds, of major decisions. Let a critic with better credentials step forward.

Third, the FBI had extraordinarily complete access. A lot was made last month about the report of the State Department Inspector General. But the State IG did not question Clinton. That was reserved for the FBI in its 3-1/2 hour examination of her, in which she was subject to the potential of harsh criminal punishment for a misstatement. The FBI got to give her the third degree. Which she submitted to voluntarily. Comey surely studied that examination in reaching his judgment.


Moreover the FBI had her private server. The IG did not. So Comey had the overview of the full evidence.

There will be a public cacophony now on this subject. It will stand out that the judgment was that of Comey. Consider the source.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:30 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Since it turns out no one has hacked into her email server and people have hacked into the state department, ...

It appears you don't understand these things very well. No one can truthfully affirm that Hillary's server wasn't hacked. She destroyed any evidence of it by having the digital content of the server erased (or "wiped" as it is termed) . Recall her cynical reply when an astute reporter asked her about it, .. "Do you mean with a cloth". (I'll leave it to you to ask yourself why she went to the trouble to do that and then to so arduously sort out her e mails by paper copies? ) Hacking is detected by real time monitoring of networks (as in government systems) or often in the digital record on the server. Hillary's server was wiped. leaving investigators in the FBI and security services no means of assessing the damage. Moreover her server lacked any monitoring or even common corporate security protections to protect it. Gaining entry to her files would have been a very easy chore.
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:33 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
Just because there are facts that show Hillary had emails that were later considered classified

The facts show that all 110 emails were classified at the time they were sent.


parados wrote:
doesn't make her guilty of a crime.

True. Normally when someone knowingly and recklessly puts top secret information on an unsecured server, the remedy is to fire them and revoke their security clearance.


parados wrote:
The only one using smoke and mirrors here is you oralloy.

When you refer to 110 classified emails, most of them secret, some of them top secret, as if there were only 3 emails that were possibly mislabeled confidential, that is you using smoke and mirrors.

When I point out that there were 110 classified emails, that most of them were secret, and that some of them were top secret, that is me in my usual role of posting exact facts.


parados wrote:
ROFLMAO...
Facts are such inconvenient things, aren't they oralloy.

They are for Liberals.

"Liberals and facts" are like "matter and anti-matter".


parados wrote:
Quote:
Update, July 7: Comey told Congress that three emails sent and received by Clinton had “portion markings” — a letter “C” in the body of the emails — indicating the presence of classified information. The State Department said it believes that at least two of the emails were marked in error.

So 3 emails, 2 of which were wrongly marked and a third which the State Department hasn't seen to comment on, is now 110 according to your "facts"?

No. 110 classified emails, most of them secret, some of them top secret.... are 110 classified emails, most of them secret, some of them top secret.

This futile effort to focus on only three emails that might have been mislabeled confidential, well it's comical.


parados wrote:
Facts are such inconvenient things.

Well, not to me. Liberalism though is completely incompatible with facts and reality.


parados wrote:
So are numbers, like when 3 doesn't equal 110.

I sympathize with the difficulties that you face in trying to defend the indefensible.

My advice to you is to stop trying to defend the indefensible. The thing about facts is, no matter how much you try to distract from them, they keep popping up and getting in your way.

Much easier to just accept reality and go along with it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:34 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Personally I am so tried of this email thing it ain't even funny.

There are a few good reasons for voting for Republicans -- protecting your gun rights for example. One of those good reasons is the fact that Liberals think that the rules don't apply to them.


revelette2 wrote:
Comey said she didn't know when she did it she broke the law so her actions do not warrant an indictment.

The normal remedy when someone knowingly and recklessly puts top secret information on an unsecured server is to fire them from their government job and revoke their security clearance.


revelette2 wrote:
She used a personal server which was legal at the time she used it to communicate with those in her state department.

It was a direct violation of State Department rules, and Hillary knew that.


revelette2 wrote:
There are more important issues to be discussed such as

As I said, one of the good reasons for voting for Republicans is because Liberals feel that they should simply be allowed to wantonly break all the rules.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:36 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Why would anyone continue to try to cover for someone as dirty as Hillary and Bill Clinton???

Because Liberals feel that the rules don't apply to them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:37 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Clinton will be speaking to the civil rights organization following the deaths of two unarmed African-American men at the hands of police and the fatal shooting of five police officers in Dallas, and in the middle of the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, where Donald Trump will likely secure the party's nomination.

That's interesting.

If she disrupts the news cycle during the Republican convention, she shouldn't then be upset when Trump upstages the Democratic convention with stunts of his own.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 10:38 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Wanna bet? Republicans have a genius for finding cooked-up "issues" which they percolate for a time in the Right Wing Noise Machine, (talk radio, Fox News, various websites, etc) and then serve to the public. The public stays interested for a short while and then tires of the convoluted intricacies and "scandal" and how little any of this is connected to their lives in general. And so we move onto the next "scandal" the righties percolate, and then the next, etc etc.

Nobody's gonna care about this crap in a couple of weeks, let alone Election Day.

After which, Republicans will holler and scream on the media and social networks that America has lost its sense of morality, because nobody cared about the Emails.

Well, in an election that was destined to go to the Republicans already, this can't do much more than strengthen an existing victory.

But I remind you that when the Democrats placed Bill Clinton above the law, Al Gore lost an election that he normally would have won decisively. Given the state of the economy in the 1990s, the voters would normally have kept the same party in the White House by a decisive margin.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 11:09 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
In several respects Blickers' voice is one of the more strident on this thread. With that in mind, I find it odd that she so frequently characterizes the statements of those who have a different view from hers as "hollering and screaming"

A committed voice for the Left, sure. But always polite and always well presented arguments. A wonderful debating opponent, IMO.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 11:10 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I hope you are right, in my opinion, this is such a non issues it angers me the extent of mileage those who do or say anything when it comes to the Clinton's are getting out of it.

Liberals were the same during the Lewinsky scandal. When you tell a Liberal that they have to follow the same rules that the rest of us do, they get quite angry with you.


revelette2 wrote:
Unfortunately, while Comey did say she didn't knowingly break any laws, he phrased the whole announcement in such a way it is taking a hit. Undeservedly so in my opinion, but there it is.

When someone knowingly and recklessly puts top secret emails on an unsecured server that foreign governments can easily hack, that tends to draw criticism.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 11:27 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Since it turns out no one has hacked into her email server

Hillary was so reckless and careless that there is no way to tell if it was hacked or not.

But it would have been trivially easy for any foreign government to hack the server.


revelette2 wrote:
and it turns very few actual emails were classified at the time she sent or received them and of those views they were marked in error or marked confusedly,

110 of the emails were classified at the time she sent of received them. Most of them were SECRET. Some of them were TOP SECRET.

The possibility that 3 of those 110 were erroneously marked as confidential does not excuse the other 107 (most of which were correctly marked SECRET or higher).


revelette2 wrote:
she wasn't all that careless

Wrong. What she did was wildly reckless.


revelette2 wrote:
and she didn't do anything different than other Secretary of State

I know of no other Secretary of State who knowingly and recklessly put top secret emails on an unsecured server that was trivially easy for foreign governments to hack.


revelette2 wrote:
which means she did nothing wrong that she knew of.

She knew from the start that what she was doing was a violation of State Department policy.


revelette2 wrote:
She was busy woman as is evidenced by her very emails quantity, she had been all over the globe, it was probably was more convenient to use her own email server

In other words, Liberals demand that they be able to break the rules whenever they want to.


revelette2 wrote:
and heck of lot of more secure.

LOL! Not.
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 11:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm not sure what all this hullabaloo is all about.

I guess some people just think it is wrong to let foreign governments easily access top secret information.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 12:07 pm
@georgeob1,
I always thought that computers retained records even if they are erased.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 12:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I always thought that computers retained records even if they are erased.


What made you think that Cicerone? That isn't true, especially if someone who knows what they are doing wants them erased. If I "wipe" a computer, no one will be able to retrieve any data from it.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 12:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
A good forensics person taught us years ago that most emails touch a minimum of 15 servers on their way from one computer to another and can be found that way. I'm not sure what the numbers are now, but I don't expect any of my emails , personal or corporate, to ever disappear completely no matter what I think I'm doing to get rid of them.

Whether or not companies/governments want to pay for that forensic investigation is a separate question. We get told (corporately) what we're allowed to delete and what can't be deleted. It's easier /cheaper if they don't have to hire someone to find records.

Hamburgboy was a forensic auditor for many years, specializing in electronic forensics. He laughs when he hears anyone talking about disappearing emails.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Mon 11 Jul, 2016 12:57 pm
@ehBeth,
I don't know what this has to do with Hillary's email problem. The problem for Hillary was that the FBI did find thousands of work related emails that Hillary hadn't turned over even though she said that she had turned all of them over.

Computers are something that I know pretty well, and emails can disappear... especially if you have your own server. This isn't magic... just because emails "touch" a minimum of 15 servers (which in itself isn't true) doesn't mean they are stored or leave any permanent record. Yes it is possible to use forensics to recover emails, but there is no guarantee... ask your forensic expert (Hamburger) for a story where someone needs to recover lost data and can't.


But I don't think has anything to do with the Clinton email story. They have the emails, and what she claimed was true turned out to not be true.
 

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