80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 06:51 am
@woiyo,
Perhaps you should listen to Mr. Comey before you make such asinine statements.
Lash
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 07:03 am
@parados,
He said as SOS, she was extremely careless.

Not recommending her for important duties.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 07:06 am
You got to give Comey credit, rather than just making headlines with quick one liners, he got in depth to completely explain what the law is and how it applied to Hillary Clinton and the reason she was not charged with a crime with her handling of classified information.

Quote:
JAMES COMEY: There are two things that matter in a criminal investigation of a subject: What did the person do and, when they did that thing, what were they thinking. When you look at the 100 years plus of the Justice Department's investigation and prosecution of the mishandling of classified information, those two questions are, obviously, present. What did the person do, did they mishandle classified information? And when they did it, did they know they were doing something that was unlawful? That has been the characteristic of every charged criminal case involving the mishandling of classified information.

I'm happy to go through the cases in particular. In our system of law, there's a thing called mens rea. It's important to know what you did, but when you did it, this Latin phrase, mens rea, means what were you thinking? We don't want to put people in jail unless we prove that they knew they were doing something they shouldn't do. That is the characteristic of all the prosecutions involving mishandling of classified information.

There is a statute that was passed in 1917 that on its face makes it a crime, a felony for someone to engage in gross negligence. So that would appear to say, well, maybe in that circumstance you don't need to prove they knew they were doing something that was unlawful, maybe it's enough to prove that they were just really, really careless beyond a reasonable doubt. At the time Congress passed that statute in 1917, there was a lot of concern in the House and the Senate about whether that was going to violate the American tradition of requiring that before you're going to lock somebody up, you prove they knew they were doing something wrong. So there was a lot of concern about it. The statute was passed.

As best I can tell, the Department of Justice has used it once in the 99 years since, reflecting that same concern. I know from 30 years with the Department of Justice they have grave concerns about whether it's appropriate to prosecute somebody for gross negligence, which is why they have done it once that I know of in a case involving espionage. And so when I look the facts we gathered here, as I said, I see evidence of great carelessness, but I do not see evidence that is sufficient to establish that Secretary Clinton or those with whom she was corresponding both talked about classified information on email and knew when they did it they were doing something that was against the law. So given that assessment of the facts, my understanding of the law, my conclusion was and remains: No reasonable prosecutor would bring this case. No reasonable prosecutor would bring the second case in 100 years focused on gross negligence. And so I know that's been a source of some confusion for folks. That's just the way it is. I know the Department of Justice, I know no reasonable prosecutor would bring this case. I know a lot of my former friends are out there saying where they would. I wonder where they were the last 40 years, because I'd like to see the cases they brought on gross negligence. Nobody would, nobody did. So my judgment was the appropriate resolution of this case was not with a criminal prosecution. As I said, folks can disagree about that, but I hope they know that view -- not just my view, but of my team -- was honestly held, fairly investigated and communicated with unusual transparency because we know folks care about it. [House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing, 7/7/16]


link embedded at the source
revelette2
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 07:58 am
Media Matters is sure doing their homework, luckily, they leave links, so biased charges is negated with links embedded in their articles to sources where the facts come from.

On those classified emails reported by the NYT:
Quote:

On July 7, The New York Times reported on testimony FBI Director James Comey gave to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee about the FBI’s recently closed investigation of Hillary Clinton’s email use as secretary of state. Comey discussed the apparent contradiction between Clinton’s public statements that her private email did not contain emails “marked classified” and the director’s July 5 statement to the contrary. But missing from the Times’ report were the facts that two of these emails were reportedly mistakenly classified and that, in his testimony, Comey explained that it was not “reasonable” to assume even an “expert” would have realized they were classified at all because they were incorrectly marked.

In its report, the Times failed to note that on July 6, State Department spokesperson John Kirby explained to reporters that two emails with a “C” notation, denoting “confidential” material, were marked as such in error. On July 7, before the committee, Comey further testified that the mistaken marking of those emails as classified was also incorrectly performed, as they lacked necessary headers. Comey said that because of this incorrect procedure, it would be “reasonable” to infer that even an “expert at what is classified and what's not classified” would not have realized the email was classified.

Despite describing the apparent contradiction between Clinton’s statement and Comey’s July 5 claim that a small number of her emails “bore markings indicating the presence of classified information,” the Times failed to report on either Kirby or Comey’s explanation for why the former secretary may have repeatedly claimed she did not send or received emails “marked classified” on her private email account.


source


0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 08:41 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
...so maybe your fondest wishes will come true in time.


I won't be holding my breath; and besides, would it really make any difference in the long run?


Not to me. The truth will eventually be known, not that the truth ever got in the way of a good witch hunt.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  -1  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 10:46 am
@parados,
I listened very carefully to Mt. Comely. When asked directly if, as she admitted to Congress, classified e-mailed were sent and received on her server, he said YES. That means Clinton lied to Congress under OATH !!!!.

So maybe you should for once open your ears and your mind and realize Clinton is a liar, careless, and unfit to serve as CIC.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 10:51 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
JAMES COMEY:

There are two things that matter in a criminal investigation of a subject:

What did the person do and, when they did that thing, what were they thinking.

I do not see evidence that is sufficient to establish that Secretary Clinton or those with whom she was corresponding both talked about classified information on email and knew when they did it they were doing something that was against the law.

So given that assessment of the facts, my understanding of the law, my conclusion was and remains: No reasonable prosecutor would bring this case.

[House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing, 7/7/16]


link embedded at the source
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 11:17 am
@woiyo,
Quote woiyo:
Quote:
I listened very carefully to Mt. Comely. When asked directly if, as she admitted to Congress, classified e-mailed were sent and received on her server, he said YES. That means Clinton lied to Congress under OATH !!!!.

So maybe you should for once open your ears and your mind and realize Clinton is a liar, careless, and unfit to serve as CIC.


Revellete posted the following information before. What is your problem understanding this?
Quote:
In its report, the Times failed to note that on July 6, State Department spokesperson John Kirby explained to reporters that two emails with a “C” notation, denoting “confidential” material, were marked as such in error. On July 7, before the committee, Comey further testified that the mistaken marking of those emails as classified was also incorrectly performed, as they lacked necessary headers. Comey said that because of this incorrect procedure, it would be “reasonable” to infer that even an “expert at what is classified and what's not classified” would not have realized the email was classified.


The materials were incorrectly classified in the first place, and also the markings that incorrectly labelled the material classified were botched so that even a person experienced in dealing with classified materials would not see it.
http://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2016/07/07/ny-times-reports-marked-classified-emails-clinton-case-without-noting-classification-was-botched/211432
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 11:18 am
@woiyo,
You only listened to half of his testimony then. He said some of them were marked classified in error and two of them were marked so confusedly, an expert would have had hard time telling if they were classified or not.

Or what Blickers said. I am slower in posting.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 11:23 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:

Hillary Clinton defied the Freedom of Information Act.


WTF? Do you even know what the FOIA is?
The FOIA requres government agencies to respond to requests and has civil sanctions of the agency if it fails to do so. The last time I checked Clinton is not a government agency nor is a civil sanction a criminal offense.


Parados cuts it very fine once again.

You may recall that, during the actions in question here, Hillary was a Cabinet officer and the head of a Major Federal agency, and therefore personally responsible for its compliance with the FOIA law among others. In defiance of well-known and standing government policies on the handling of classified information and of official governement e mails she elected to violate a policy she herself had issued to all State Department Employees, and in doing so removed her own e mails from the FOIA reporting for which she, as agency head was personally responsible.
maporsche
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 11:29 am
@georgeob1,
Criminally responsible?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 11:39 am
@maporsche,
What do you mean by "criminally" ? She knowingly took actions in defiance of government policy and law that put her own official e mails beyong the reach of FOIA investigations, the enforcement which, under that law, she was personally responsible. The resulting investigation reports issued by her department were knowingly (to her) incomplete and failed to meet the requirement of a law designed by its largely Democrat authors to protect the public's right to know the actions of officials accountable to it.
parados
 
  5  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 02:46 pm
@georgeob1,
Once again george thinks the law is a fine line that he can simply cross over and make something not illegal illegal just because he wishes it were so rather than relying on the exact wording of the law as every courtroom in the country does.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 02:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Lash had stated Clinton had personally committed a crime under FOIA. I pointed out FOIA doesn't make anything a crime for any person under that law. You once again show you prefer idiocy to legality.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 02:53 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
She knowingly took actions in defiance of government policy and law


perhaps you could let the FBI know that they got it all wrong
revelette2
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 03:10 pm
@georgeob1,
Do you disagree with the following statement from Comey? Perhaps you should write him and tell him business even though he has been in the Justice Department for thirty years.

Quote:
I do not see evidence that is sufficient to establish that Secretary Clinton or those with whom she was corresponding both talked about classified information on email and knew when they did it they were doing something that was against the law.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 05:25 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
She knowingly took actions in defiance of government policy and law


perhaps you could let the FBI know that they got it all wrong


Why? Comey, the State Department IG, and Hillary herself have already said as much. She knew about, and in some matters directly subervised, the installation of her server in her home, and consistently used it for her official e mail. She herself signed a directive to all State Department Employees requiring all of them to exclusively use government e mail systems for official business. She specifically directed her staff to keep all her e mails private. Perhaps she could claim that she didn't know of the existence of the FOIA laws, But I believe that is a real stretch.

At the end Comey's case rested on his subjective assertion that "no rational prosecutor would bring such a case, but note that he was careful to avoid specifying just what specific charges he was referring to. He never disclosed that.

I never entertained any real expectation that the very politicized Justice apparatus of the current administration would ever bring charges against Clinton. Too much was at stake. When, starting a few months ago, I started seeing references to Comey's supposed independence and integrity in the liberal press I knew the fix was in.

I did however expect that the public outcry combined with the reaction to the typically deceitful denials I expected from Clinton would spook the Democrats and force her to withdraw. I was wrong.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 05:30 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Do you disagree with the following statement from Comey? Perhaps you should write him and tell him business even though he has been in the Justice Department for thirty years.

Quote:
I do not see evidence that is sufficient to establish that Secretary Clinton or those with whom she was corresponding both talked about classified information on email and knew when they did it they were doing something that was against the law.



The statement is true by virtue of its construction. Only he knows what he believes or chooses to see. I suspect he chose those words very carefully.

You appear to be remarkably credulous and uncritical in your thinking.
Blickers
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 05:45 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote georgeob1:
Quote:
I never entertained any real expectation that the very politicized Justice apparatus of the current administration would ever bring charges against Clinton. Too much was at stake. When, starting a few months ago, I started seeing references to Comey's supposed independence and integrity in the liberal press I knew the fix was in.


And yet you never had any occasion to doubt Comey before he came up with a decision you didn't like. Blatham asked you point blank a few days ago if you would say Comey was crooked if his report did not recommend indictment for Clinton, and you wouldn't give an answer.

No need. We got our answer. Comey is "fixed" because he didn't give you the answer you wanted.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jul, 2016 06:36 pm
@Blickers,
Some questions deserve answers: some don't. Blatham's didn't, because he he has been so evasive in addressing his own hypocrisy.

You have no knowledge whatever about my thoughts or intentions in this matter. That you claim to know is an indicator of your own prejudices and lack of critical thinking.
 

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