80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 09:12 pm
PS: The publisher of that newspaper, Jared Kushner, is married to Trump's daughter Ivanka and was asked by Trump to head his transition team if he gets elected. Considering the publisher and the writer, I would be shocked if they didn't push for Hillary's indictment.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/06/trump-asks-his-son-in-law-jared-kushner-to-plan-for-a-transition-team/?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FNew%20York%20Observer&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

Kushner better watch it. Wasn't it Ivanka who Trump said he would ask out if she wasn't his daughter?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 09:20 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Quote Lash:


The author of that article is John R. Schindler, a conservative writer who has published articles in The National Review. He used to teach at the Naval War College but got into trouble for sending dick pics over the internet.

Same great sources as always, from you.

It's not surprising that he wrote an article saying Hillary should be indicted.


Yup. Forever trying to assume the moral high road, meanwhile muckraking through every dime store right wing rag she can find to toss up any lie that will make her appear to have a leg to stand on. And it's gotten worse since she had to factor denial of Hillary's victory into the sad facade. Must be quite a strain. Hope she doesn't crack.

glitterbag
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 09:25 pm
@snood,
I think that ship sailed a loooong time ago.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 08:33 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
I believe that both Sanders and Trump have tapped into a deep and widespread frustration with the economic sclerosis attending the increasingly bureaucratic and intrusive state that is evolving here.

You've said that previously. It does seem to be the case that declining opportunities and economic standards for many are a significant causal factor in citizen unhappiness/dissatisfaction. However, your final half of the sentence is merely an assertion of how this has happened based upon an ideological stance you've adopted. You ought not to pretend that this economic analysis has broad acceptance because it doesn't.


You have long and repeatedly accused me of that "equivalence bit" It's true that in the case at hand I asserted that certain excessive behaviors can be found across the political spectrum, but that doesn't mean either that they, or the consequences of them, are the same or equivalent. It is merely an observation of human nature and its expression in large groups of people. It's also true.

In a related way you often accuse me of an "ideological stance" in my expressions of opinion, while tacitly implying that yours are all based on dispassionate analysis or science. I generally don't comment on that, but always find it bemusing.

I can tell you from direct personal experience that the increasingly intrusive behavior of our increasingly aggressive, self-absorbed (and not very bright) Federal bureaucracies is indeed sapping economic initiave across the country. Perversely the problems that result, economic stagnation and all its conserquences are merely grist for the mill for the expansion of the reach of these same bureaucracies. Business enterprises are also subject to this phenomenon, but those that succumb to it are quickly wiped out by their competitors. We don't hear from them anymore. Governments go on for a longer time. Now, after the weakest recovery from a recession since WWII, the U.S. economy is slipping back into another recession. Not good for anyone.
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 10:47 am
@momoends,
Quote:
Re: Blickers (Post 6205813)
thanks, but when entering somebody´s home i always ask for permission...
anyway thanks a lot for welcoming my opinion about this

This site has always enjoyed contributions from folks outside of the US. It has been a key factor in making discussions here broader and far more informative than most other discussion sites where US politics is a/the subject.

Truly, you are more than welcome to offer up your thoughts. Our site will be the better for it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:12 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
You have long and repeatedly accused me of that "equivalence bit" It's true that in the case at hand I asserted that certain excessive behaviors can be found across the political spectrum, but that doesn't mean either that they, or the consequences of them, are the same or equivalent. It is merely an observation of human nature and its expression in large groups of people. It's also true.

The problem is that such formulations may well be true in a general sense but are completely unhelpful in any careful analysis. I could make the truthful claim that Catholics and Sunni Muslims have both been guilty of bad stuff in their histories but if we stop thinking at that point, we learn nothing of value. Nixon and Lincoln both made mistakes. Sarah Palin and yourself are both conservatives. Nixon isn't equivalent to Lincoln and you aren't the equivalent to Palin. Or someone might say that Hillary Clinton and Paul Ryan are both career politicians (not actually the case as Hillary had a legal career whereas Ryan began his life in politics immediately upon graduation) and are therefore both equally worthy of being disregarded.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 02:44 pm
Today's winner in our prestigious "Adventures In Mind and Language" award

Quote:
President Barack Obama “is a special kind of stupid,” former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wrote Friday.


Well, yes. That certainly would be a very "special" kind of the thing.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 03:04 pm
@blatham,
Some gems from Sarah Palin: http://www.alternet.org/story/104034/the_11_dumbest_things_sarah_palin_has_said_so_far
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 03:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I can't go over those again. I just can't.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 03:15 pm
@blatham,
Doesn't make you wonder why she's so popular in her party? LOL
glitterbag
 
  2  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 03:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Bird brains of a feather ???????
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 03:56 pm
This is for everyone but directed at george particularly.

As I said earlier, Republicans are failing miserably at the task of figuring out (by which I mean, honestly confronting) how their party got to where it is now with Trump ascendant as the clear favorite of the GOP base. Economic travail doesn't offer up a sufficient explanation as the Clinton/Sanders contest shows. And it doesn't offer up any help when we consider Palin's vast following among the GOP base.

Jon Chait at NY Mag has an excellent piece on just this set of questions. I encourage everyone to read the whole piece (it's not long) but I'll paste in just a bit here. http://nym.ag/1OuQPnM
Quote:
One conservative who did not abandon Palin was Matthew Continetti, who wrote for The Weekly Standard, the editor of which, his father-in-law William Kristol, helped bring Palin to the attention of Washington Republicans. Now the editor of the Washington Free Beacon, Continetti continues to nurse grievances against Palin’s critics within the party. As recently as last summer, Continetti accused the McCain staffers who denounced Palin for their “back-stabbing vindictiveness and self-seeking,” for being small enough to curry favor with “the liberal press” by “leak[ing] disparaging material about their vice presidential candidate even before Election Day.”

The rise of Trump has given many Republicans, including Continetti, a different perspective on these very same questions. Trump’s candidacy has given them the chance to debate the merits of an ignorant demagogue, rather than defend him reflexively. Many of them have decided that a president who knows things about public policy, and does not indulge conspiracy theories from email chains, has a certain charm. They have even come to view the dissent against such a candidate as an act of nobility, rather than traitorous currying of favor with the elite liberal media. And they have even begun questioning what pathologies have driven Republican voters into the arms of such patently unqualified demagogues. Continetti has a column today making the point in admirably clear terms:

<i>It’s a joke. All of it: his candidacy, the apparatus of propaganda and grift surrounding it, the failures of governance and education and culture that have brought us to this place. What disturbs me most is the prospect that Donald Trump is what a very large number of Republican voters want: not a wonk, not an orator, not a statesman, not even a leader, really, if by leader you mean someone who persuades and inspires and manages a team to pursue a common good. They just want a man who vents their anger at targets above and below their status.</i>

These are important questions — what failures of education and culture could have left Republican voters predisposed to the propaganda of a grifter who is neither a wonk nor an orator, and who exploits their cultural resentments? Continetti does not provide any answers. Here is one:
(followed by an image of Continetti's book "The Persecution of Sarah Palin"
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 17 Jun, 2016 06:06 pm
Here's today's taste of what Limbaugh pushes out every ******* day of the week and has been for twenty years...

Quote:
RUSH LIMBAUGH (HOST): I just want you to hear a couple of the things Obama said at the memorial. At the memorial, after meeting with survivors of the terror attacks.

[BEGIN AUDIO]

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Given the fact that the last two terrorist attacks on our soil, Orlando and San Bernardino, were home grown. Carried out, it appears, not by external plotters, not by vast networks, or sophisticated cells. But by deranged individuals warped by the hateful propaganda that they had seen over the internet. Now we're going to have to do more to prevent these kinds of events from occurring.

[END AUDIO]

LIMBAUGH: Uh oh, you hear that? It's the internet's fault. Yeah, all this hatred on the internet, yeah. Was all that propaganda on the internet. We're going to have to do more to prevent these kinds -- Can you say the words "net neutrality"? If you can, then you might be aware of how Obama intends to take control of the internet, using this as justification, which sadly many low-information Americans and propagandized Americans themselves will applaud. But it will not be, Obama's takeover of the internet will not be to prevent these kinds of things from happening. He's got an entirely different agenda. All the Democrats do. It's total control. It's limiting access to information. It's about shutting down opposition. That's why they want control of the internet.


Net neutrality, of course, has nothing at all to do with content (x is bad content, y is good content). It is merely a scheme to ensure that providers do not treat some data streams differently from others (slowing some or speeding some or charging differently). Limbaugh undoubtedly knows this but he is working at the behest of the providers' financial interests. But he has been forwarding this lie along with the paranoid narrative of government control of content.

And then there's the motive claim - Obama is out to control all information flows including taking over the internet. Further, "all Democrats" have this motive and goal of "total control" to "shut down opposition".

20 years of this and of so much more like this coming out of the right wing media universe to many millions of right wing consumers. What the hell would be expect to be the consequences of this?

Trump has been a regular interviewee at Alex Jones' InfoWars. Here's a current item from there...
Quote:
Yesterday, Donald Trump ally Alex Jones chatted with fellow conspiracy theorist Steve Pieczenik, who told the InfoWars broadcaster that government agencies and the Muslim Brotherhood are blackmailing President Obama and Hillary Clinton over their secret gay pasts.


cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 18 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
@blatham,
There's no cure for stupid: RUSH LIMBAUGH and his followers epitomizes it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 08:48 am
@blatham,
I believe Rush Limbaugh has been on the air for about 25 years . He has endured and has developed a wide audience over that time. I doubt that during that period I've spent more than 20 minutes listening to his broadcasts, and don't recall doing so at all over the past decade. LImbaugh represents a conservative point of view, and tends to see excesses and even conspiratorial motives behind the actions of his political opponents - as you illustrated in your net neutrality comments. Whether the net neutrality legislation represents necessary government intervention (the web has thrived so far without it) or needless or even badly mnotivated government overreach is a subject of much debate today - even among serious people..

That said, I don't see much difference between many of your posts here and the Linbaugh stuff you've quoted. You both have a point of view (or should I write ideology) and you both frequently find conspiratorial bad intent behind the actions of those whose beliefs you oppose. I'm aware that you are an avid reader of contemporary political commentary and are (or were) yourself involved in various political blogs. Perhaps the main differences between you and Linbaugh are your respective points of view and the remarkable commercial succerss he has somehow achieved. I find it remarkable that one of your insight would fail to see these parallels.

I don't fault Limbaugh for his opinions. I agree with some that I've heard and disagree with others. I could say that about yours as well. To the extent that you both prejudge the inner motives of those with whom you disagree I reject both of you equally. Some of these insights (by both of you) may well prove to be true, but we'll likely not know that for a long time. Even serious historians are sometimes wrong, and often disagree, about such questions. However, I completely reject the a priori judgments of bad intent coming from both of you, and find it odd that you don't see that similarity in your respective campaigns. ( fear that you will say this is just more of my "equivalency" BS, and that once again I am failing to recognize that (only) your **** doesn't stink.)

In the case of public officials in a democracy, we must all make some judgments about the characters and intentions of those for whom we vote, and do so with the information we have. In addition we all have a right to attempt to persuade others of our opinions. However, even in these cases it is important to distinguish between what we believe (or suspect) to be true and what we know for sure. Even there, necessary judgments about the characters of such candidates should focus more on their actions (or inaction) rather than preconceptions about their unknowable inner motives. I believe tha both Blatham and Limbaugh are far too quick and persistent in seeing evil conspiracies in the hearts of their political opponents, and both equally wrong in assuming that they are necessarily exempt from them.

I'm not trying to insult or be offensive here: rather to face a basic point which I fear you persistently ignore. If there is any thread to our friendship here, that's it.



Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 09:39 am
@georgeob1,
Quote georgeob1 to blatham:
Quote:
Perhaps the main differences between you and Linbaugh are your respective points of view and the remarkable commercial succerss he has somehow achieved. I find it remarkable that one of your insight would fail to see these parallels.

That said, I don't see much difference between many of your posts here and the Linbaugh stuff you've quoted.

Don't see much difference between what Rush Limbaugh says and what blatham says? How about this?


Yep, lots of parallels between Blatham and Limbaugh. Thanks for that insight, george.


snood
 
  3  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 09:40 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
Don't see much difference between what Rush Limbaugh says and what blatham says?


Amazing, isn't it?
Blickers
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 09:42 am
@snood,
Flabbergasting.

Maybe we can start a new thread, "Adjectives To Use At Georgeob1's Comparisons".
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 09:57 am
@Blickers,
Still playing the old shell game are you? I wrote that I didn't see much difference between specific Limbach material Blatham posted here and some of his own posts. That is observably true.

You are attacking a straw man of your own fabrication, and will I'm sure recover from your flabbrgastery, just as will Snood from his amazement.

You appear to be the Limbaugh expert here , not me, I don't frequent that stuff.
parados
 
  6  
Sun 19 Jun, 2016 10:10 am
@georgeob1,
Limbaugh spouts his opinions (if they even are his actual opinions) for his own financial gain. As such, he isn't giving his opinions to better the country as he sees it but to line his own pockets. That would make Limbaugh quite different from those posting here.
 

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