80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 01:39 pm
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/literally-only-trump-issue-advantage-now-gone.html

Quote:
Hillary Clinton’s sloppy and irresponsible handling of official email during her tenure as Secretary of State is not, by itself, a good reason to vote for Donald Trump. But it is a reason, albeit one dwarfed by mountains of countervailing reasons. Or at least it was a reason. Paul Singer reports that Trump’s businesses have repeatedly destroyed emails relevant to the lawsuits against him, in ways judges have found suspicious or irresponsible:

Trump’s casino company destroyed old computers and emails that might have been stored on them. “There was no uniform procedure for migration of data from an obsolete work station to a replacement work station,” Vroulis said.

Trump’s companies had no document retention policy, witnesses testified. “Every year everything was just wiped out and deleted from pretty much everybody’s computers,” said Bob Pickus, general counsel of the casino unit at the time, according to court records.



So now email protocol voters are struck with a tie between two bad choices, and might have to decide on the basis of other issues.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/13/trump-accused-destroying-email-evidence-lawsuit-10-years-ago-republican-hillary-president/85795082/
maporsche
 
  5  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 01:58 pm
@ehBeth,
"email protocol voters" --- AKA people who have some hatred for Hillary Clinton
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 03:46 pm
@georgeob1,
First of all, hello. Our old friendship is apparently in a bad spot these days. Perhaps in the manner of a marriage. That analogy came to mind when I found myself a while ago casing local bars to inquire if any retired RCMP officer might be interested in heading south to murder you. I found three. They all wanted at least three hundred bucks and, hey, you're important to me but not that much.
Quote:
I doubt that Limbach has made as much as have the Clintons out of a variant of the same game.

Actually, maybe three hundred would be worth it. You didn't spend a lot of time thinking that one through. We won't spend a lot of time on income but we'll note that Limbaugh's yearly income is approximately Bill's net worth. I can dig up sources if you care about that.

The far more critical error you make is to compare what they do. I really don't know how you could get where you got in that sentence other than through an axiomatic formulation (If a conservative does X then a dem will have done it too). Such formulations are quite resistant to evidence, which is why they are...um...handy. I presume you are talking about the Clinton Foundation in your sentence. I wonder what you actually know about it. Let's just take one element, Clinton Global Initiative (following from Wikipedia):
Quote:
CGI is a non-partisan organization that convenes global leaders to devise and implement innovative solutions to the world’s most pressing problems. Each year, CGI hosts an Annual Meeting in September, scheduled to coincide with the U.N. General Assembly. Throughout the year, CGI helps its members – primarily corporations, NGOs, and government leaders – maximize their efforts to create positive change. CGI is not a grant-making organization. CGI Annual Meetings have brought together more than 150 heads of state, 20 Nobel Prize laureates, and hundreds of leading CEOs, heads of foundations and NGOs, major philanthropists, and members of the media. As of 2013, CGI members have made more than 2,300 commitments, which have improved the lives of over 400 million people in more than 180 countries. When fully funded and implemented, these commitments will be valued at $73.5 billion.

As noted, that is just one element of CF operations in the world. As you likely know, various endeavors related to CGI operations have included the cooperative efforts of ex President George Bush Sr.

What, pray tell, has Rush Limbaugh done either in America or out in the broad world which has any echo of this at all? He has made donations to (and facilitated others to donate to) leukemia and lymphoma research and he's supported the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation. That's all I can find. His donations over the last decade appear to equal something close to what he make in Jan and Feb of this single year.

And then there's the rather significant element of what Limbaugh has been saying/doing via his talk radio perch for two decades. And if you imagine America is better for that then you probably also have concluded that Donald Trump is just what America needs to be that city on the hill. And that kind of works out because he's all yours now. Congrats.
blatham
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 03:56 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Do you see everything. from your vantage point in British Columbia. through the same lens of conservative conspiracy in the USA? Doesn't it get a bit tiresome after so long? You sound a bit like Cato the elder with your repeated demands for the destructrion of your imagined conspiracy.

As I may have noted before, Canada serves the function for the US of being your Greek Chorus. We can see what's coming and we warn you BUT YOU JUST DON'T LISTEN. (I better stop that as I'm thinking marriage/murder again).

Re conspiracy, I gather you reference my comment on the Koch brothers and their operations. If you had taken the time to read about the brothers' history and about the organization they've set up, we could have a conversation. But you haven't. You could order up Jane Mayer's recent book. But you won't. So it looks like a conversation here isn't really possible.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:04 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The country is highly polarized right now and I believe both sides have foolishly contributed more or less equally to that outcome, though I doubt you will agree.

Yes, it is. Equivalence? No, I do not agree. Permit me to reference two very good texts on this question: Pierson and Hacker's Winner-Take-All-Politics and It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism by Orstein and Mann.

Again, your equivalence formulation is merely an axiomatic formulation which necessarily discounts evidence which contradicts it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:25 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Life and even politics ( indeed human nature itself) are far more complex than it appears you consider in your theology. As I consider the tradeoffs between a chronic liar and crook, who is nevertheless fairly competent and, based on her self-interest, fairly predictable, and the alternative, a boastful but apparently shallow fast talker seeking power -- I find myself even considering a vote for Hillary.


Well, that bolded bit at the end is agreeable. You are aware, I'm sure, that pretty much across the board, senior Republicans and conservatives are in some mix of dismay, anger and terror that Trump is now your party's senior representative heading into the election. You are aware, surely, that what they are saying about him and his fitness for this office, have no precedent in US presidential election history. Goldwater is the closest case but Trump's "knowledge" of the US, of its history, of its political traditions and of world affairs current or past, is far less than Goldwater's. And Trump's motivations for office far less a matter of personal sense of civic duty compared with Goldwater.

But all of this ought to lead you towards a deep and honest inspection of how Trump, as the GOP candidate, has come about. What conditions were in place that allowed your party's base to raise this man up? From where have their ideas come? How have such a large number of US citizens become so mis-informed. Who have they been listening to?

You're not alone in (at least publicly) wrestling with this. Michael Gerson, for example, has been one of the most critical, honest and coherent senior conservative voices aghast at what has happened to your party such that Trump sits where he does in the right wing universe and that Limbaugh sits where he sits in the rw universe. His voice is a very good one for those of us who hope your side will find some way to get sane again. But even Michael has, so far, utterly refused to acknowledge his own complicity in events - in how he did not previously speak out about Limbaugh and talk radio - while that dynamic was aiding GOP electoral opportunities doing exactly what he/they are doing today.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:28 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I believe that both Sanders and Trump have tapped into a deep and widespread frustration with the economic sclerosis attending the increasingly bureaucratic and intrusive state that is evolving here.

You've said that previously. It does seem to be the case that declining opportunities and economic standards for many are a significant causal factor in citizen unhappiness/dissatisfaction. However, your final half of the sentence is merely an assertion of how this has happened based upon an ideological stance you've adopted. You ought not to pretend that this economic analysis has broad acceptance because it doesn't.
momoends
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:30 pm
@blatham,
just in case, a foreigner´s opinion could be interesting to you... the fact that that Esperpento that is Donald Trump had made it to be a candidate is seen as surrealist from europe... we are all trying to became a peaceful and generous civilizations in the convencimiento that it´s the best way to have an harmonic and sana coexistence, and when we finally get to see USA cooperating and revealing itself as a fellow country willing to collaborate with the rest of us.., the living incarnation of the retrograde, un illiterate and prepotent knowitall old USA shows himself and get supported enough to be officially a candidate to be the united states of america president.... He is the result of putting all nasty stereotypes of what USA was seen way back in time together with a touch of historic ignorance to perfect the result...
please don´t let that happen
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:33 pm
@georgeob1,
And finally...
Quote:
I also find the apparent proclivity for some here to assign this underlying disquiet to the neuroses of 'dumb, uneducated white guys', to be (in any order) stupid, hypocritical and condescending. Indeed it is a bit.... Trump like in it's bombastic inanity. However it is a reminder that this disorder is fairly widespread across the political spectrum.

Fair enough. That's a pretty shallow analysis where it is made/voiced. But we also have to confront what we know about the coherts which are backing Trump so actively and passionately. And it is mainly white, low education males. That's not in contest. And if we factor in cultural and geographic factors, this makes some sense.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:40 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Lash wrote:

They are trained to pull that tired Vince Foster ripcord at the mention of any criticism of their two-headed diety.


It's a very Clintonian diversion. They are good at it. However thinking just a bit is an effective defense.

From May of this year...
Quote:
"He had intimate knowledge of what was going on," Trump said of Foster’s relationship with the Clintons. "He knew everything that was going on and then all of a sudden he committed suicide."

And of course it isn't just this gambit by Trump that's relevant here, it is the very real history of rightwing media/agents pushing this sleazy theory for years. When we reference this history, it is to remind you that folks on the right ran this game (and others exactly like it) for years.
blatham
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 04:55 pm
@momoends,
Quote:
just in case, a foreigner´s opinion could be interesting to you...


Thanks for that and pleased to meet you. Actually, I'm Canadian (though lived a decade in the US). I read a Brit paper every morning but confess I don't attend to European press except on the odd occasion.

But because I read a lot, I've a fair notion of what Europeans tend to think of Trump and it looks very much like how Canadians tend to regard him (and to regard a citizen or political community which has advanced him). People here are (that is, some percentage like 95 out of 100) absolutely flabbergasted and incredulous, if not terrified.

Mind you, to be fair, we could discuss Toronto and its previous mayor, Rob Ford.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 05:35 pm
@momoends,
I'm an American and am keenly aware of how this plays in Europe. Last summer I was the only one in my family who worried that Trump might actually get traction. Now, as this circus clown continues to try to sound like a beacon for America, the more he reveals what an absolute horses ass he is. In the last few weeks, Trump has become his own worst enemy. His behaviour continues to embarrass the American people, but now he has gone so far into crazy pants mode, I'm finally beginning to think it's possible to defeat that lunatic. His supporters will not outnumber the folks who refuse to put him in office. He simply has to lose. If he doesn't lose, I might be writing to you for information on immigration to Spain.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 05:39 pm
@glitterbag,
Unfortunately, there are always about 33% of Americans who thinks like Trump.
I wouldn't be able to figure it out in a million years why so many belong to the lower echelons of bigotry, brain dead, and lunacy (build a wall between the US and Mexico).
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 07:26 pm
@momoends,
Quote momoends:
Quote:
just in case, a foreigner´s opinion could be interesting to you..

A2K is open to all people on the internet. Feel free to chime in anytime about anybody's elections, the world is getting more interconnected every day.
momoends
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 07:38 pm
@Blickers,
thanks, but when entering somebody´s home i always ask for permission...
anyway thanks a lot for welcoming my opinion about this
Lash
 
  -2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 07:48 pm
@blatham,
It's a pretty lame dodge of relevant criticism.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 08:04 pm
Here's a news story. Looks pretty bad.

http://observer.com/2016/06/the-coming-constitutional-crisis-over-hillary-clintons-emailgate/
momoends
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 08:18 pm
@Lash,
is that such an scandal?!!! they all do that on daily basis
Blickers
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 08:52 pm
@Lash,
Quote Lash:


The author of that article is John R. Schindler, a conservative writer who has published articles in The National Review. He used to teach at the Naval War College but got into trouble for sending dick pics over the internet.

Same great sources as always, from you.

It's not surprising that he wrote an article saying Hillary should be indicted.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jun, 2016 09:11 pm
@momoends,
I hope you continue to join all of us on A2K. There are people from Australia, Great Britain, Germany and Canada as well as many Americans from all corners of the United States. The more you read the remarks you will begin to understand why some cling to extreme notions. Not all Americans are stupid and I am very uneasy over the support Trump manages to get and yet,,,,,he never tells the truth and just spouts nonsense to keep the dumb elements thinking they are the only ones in the country that actually love their country. He's divisive and I believe he's a fascist who aspires to be the World's ruler. He's a dangerous man because he doesn't have a clue what his limitations are.
0 Replies
 
 

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