80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  5  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:02 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:
The very first thing that needs to be done is change to a system that actually listens to all voters besides DP and GOP voters only, and allows for a clear chance for honest third party challenges.


too bad neither Sanders nor Trump seem to want to lead that change by being third party challengers
engineer
 
  5  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:11 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

The very first thing that needs to be done is change to a system that actually listens to all voters besides DP and GOP voters only, and allows for a clear chance for honest third party challenges.

Isn't that what the November election is?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:14 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

What "central issue" are you referring to? Breaking the banks?

Yes. Did you see the Daily News Interview? It's been in the news for 48 hours almost constantly. They asked him among other things all related to his plan to rescue our economy, how exactly he was going to break up the banks. His answers were pathetic, for anyone giving an honest assessment.

He was not pathetic at all. On the contrary, he was correct and the Daily News was wrong about that:

Quote:

A notion is rapidly crystallizing among the national media that Bernie Sanders majorly bungled an interview with the editorial board of the New York Daily News. His rival, Hillary Clinton, has even sent a transcript of the interview to supporters as part of a fundraising push. A close look at that transcript, though, suggests the media may be getting worked up over nothing.

In fact, in several instances, it’s the Daily News editors who are bungling the facts in an interview designed to show that Sanders doesn’t understand the fine points of policy. In questions about breaking up big banks, the powers of the Treasury Department and drone strikes, the editors were simply wrong on details.

Take the exchange getting the most attention: Sanders’ supposed inability to describe exactly how he would break up the biggest banks. Sanders said that if the Treasury Department deemed it necessary to do so, the bank would go about unwinding itself as it best saw fit to get to a size that the administration considered no longer a systemic risk to the economy. Sanders said this could be done with new legislation, or through administrative authority under Dodd-Frank.

This is true, as t’s also the position of Clinton herself. “We now have power under the Dodd-Frank legislation to break up banks. And I’ve said I will use that power if they pose a systemic risk,” Clinton said at a February debate. No media outcry followed her assertion, because it was true.

As the interview went on, though, it began to appear that the Daily News editors didn’t understand the difference between the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve.

Much more:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/bernie-sanders-daily-news_us_5704779ce4b0a506064d8df5
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 01:45 pm
My son turned 18 last December. This will be his first election where he gets to cast a ballot. Like all brainwashed kids in public schools, he registered Dem and will be casting his first ever vote for Bernie Sanders.
Lash
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 02:03 pm
@McGentrix,
My sympathies and woohoo!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 03:20 pm
Someone not knowledgeable about the damage Bill Clinton can do on the campaign trail asked for examples a few weeks ago. I gave a few, and Bill has very recently provided us with a searing pyramid of poo featuring a very telling takedown of our favorite firewall demographic, black Americans.

But, there's really nothing Bill and Hill can do or say to lose that vote.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/7/1512165/-Bill-Clinton-Confronted-Some-Black-Lives-Matter-Protesters-It-Didn-t-Go-Down-Well
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 03:31 pm
@McGentrix,
Are they talking about the election at school? are teachers allowed to suggest a direction to vote?

while politics can be discussed in theory here, it wouldn't be worth a teacher's job to suggest/hint/breathe about a preference
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Before we can have credible third party challenges we need to change our voting from winner takes all to run off elections when no candidate takes 51% or more of the vote.

Trump would do terrible as a third party candidate. Only the 20 - 30% hardcore nits would vote for him, no loyal Republican would. I wish Trump would run a third party campaign.

If Hillary Clinton takes the nomination, I would wish for him to support the ticket. if he runs a third party candidacy I would never support or vote for him.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:32 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
will be casting his first ever vote for Bernie Sanders.


See, your kids gonna be alright.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:43 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Re: bobsal u1553115 (Post 6160233)
When have they ever made a difference?


This election, potentially. Berie and Hillary are only 200+/- apart on earned delegates. They both are about 1000 delegates away from the magic 2,200 deligate needed to take the first vote. But 400 apart on declared super delegates. These super delegates are made up of Democratic Party operatives who are appointed by the DNC.

This from the 2008 election, but some say super delegates were how the President finessed the nomination from Hillary Clinton.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/11/delegates.explainer/

Superdelegates: Why they matter

Story Highlights
CNN answers your questions about the role delegates play in the presidential race
Find out the difference between delegates and "superdelegates" for Democrats
There are no Republican superdelegates
Next Article in Politics »

Read
VIDEO


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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As the Democratic primary race heats up between Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, the delegate estimate between the two remains extremely close. For the first time, Democratic superdelegates may decide their party's nominee.

But what exactly is a delegate and why are they so important to Obama and Clinton, and Sen. John McCain and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee on the Republican side?

The magic number of delegates needed to win the Democratic nomination is 2,025 out of 4,049 total number of delegates.

For Republicans, the number needed is much less -- 1,191 delegates to secure the party's nomination out of 2,380 total delegates.

CNN has compiled a list of questions and answers regarding the complicated world of delegates.

Q: What's the difference between delegates and superdelegates?

A: There are different set of rules for the Democratic and Republican parties.

For Democrats, there are two types of delegates within the Democratic Party: pledged and unpledged.
Don't Miss

Election Center 2008
Clinton, Obama in tight race for delegates
Why delegates matter in the presidential race

Both of them cast votes for presidential candidates at the national convention, but the methods by which they are selected differ.

A pledged delegate is elected to his or her position with the understanding that he or she will support a particular candidate. Over 80 percent of the total delegate votes at the convention are from these pledged delegates.

In caucus states, pledged delegates are elected through a series of local-level meetings and conventions and then are allocated to the candidates based on the candidate's showing in the caucuses.

In primary states, voters are actually voting for a candidate's slate of pledged delegates. The number of delegates who get to attend the national conventions is proportional to the candidate's share of the primary vote.

Although pledged delegates make a "pledge" to support a certain candidate, they are not required or bound by the national party to actually support that candidate and may vote any way they choose on the convention floor.

So-called "superdelegates," unique to the Democratic party, are drawn from the Democratic National Committee, members of Congress, governors and distinguished party leaders -- like former presidents, vice presidents, and congressional leaders. Some are selected at state conventions.

Though sometimes referred to as "unpledged" delegates, many superdelegates pledge allegiance to a candidate well before the party convention -- but they are free to change their minds. Superdelegates make up around 20 percent of the total delegates and have only been around since the 1980s.

Although the national Republican Party does not have these superdelegates, 123 members of the Republican National Committee are free to vote for any candidate at the GOP convention this summer in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Of those, 26 have already expressed support for McCain and three for Huckabee.

Republicans, like Democrats, utilize pledged delegates in the nominating process. A candidate needs 1,911 out of 2,380 total national delegates to secure the nomination.

Q: At what point do superdelegates become a factor in deciding who wins the nomination?

A: Because Obama and Clinton are neck-and-neck in pledged delegates, the superdelegate number could set a candidate over the top, getting the magic number of delegates needed to win the party's nomination. Video Watch superdelegates weigh in on their role in the race »

CNN estimates, however, that Clinton has the support of at least 234 superdelegates compared with at least 156 superdelegates for Obama, according to an ongoing survey. The remaining 400 or so superdelegates either remain neutral, undecided or have not publicly revealed their preferences.

Though Clinton appears to hold a sizable lead among these Democratic officials, Obama has scored a series of high-profile superdelegate endorsements in recent weeks, including nods from Sens. Ted Kennedy and John Kerry of Massachusetts.

Although there are currently 796 Democratic superdelegates, those numbers may change over the next several months as people die, leave office or leave the Democratic Party. Video Watch more about Democratic superdelegates »

The number of superdelegates may also change if states such as Florida and Michigan are ultimately allowed to send delegates. As you may recall, the DNC stripped both states due to the refusal to hold delegate selection contests during the so-called "window" of time sanctioned by the DNC.

This means that, unless the DNC's current ruling changes, prominent Democrats -- including Florida Sen. Bill Nelson and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm -- will not be superdelegates.

Q: Can superdelegates who've expressed a preference change their mind before that time?

A: Yes, superdelegates are not required to indicate a preference for a candidate.

Candidates, however, can use their persuasive power to win over superdelegates' support.

Q: Have superdelegates ever decided the Democratic nominee?

A: No. Since superdelegates were first created in the 1980s, a Democratic nomination race has never come down to the votes of superdelegates at the convention.

Usually, the eventual nominee emerges before the convention and the delegates generally have rallied around that nominee at the convention regardless of whom they supported during the primaries.

Q: How does CNN determine its delegate count?
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A: The overall delegate estimate is a combination of our superdelegate estimate and our calculations of how many delegates the candidates won through primaries and caucuses. We add those numbers together and come up with the overall delegate estimate.

For the superdelegate count in particular, CNN's ongoing survey involves phone calls and e-mails to delegates as well as public statements of endorsement for a particular candidate. E-mail to a friend E-mail to a friend
maxdancona
 
  4  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:52 pm
@McGentrix,
My son is also voting for his first time.... and already voted for Bernie Sanders.

Although my son got his brainwashing at home from his dad. That is where brainwashing is supposed to happen, right?
ehBeth
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:54 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
Re: bobsal u1553115 (Post 6160233)
When have they ever made a difference?


This election, potentially.

This from the 2008 election, but some say super delegates were how the President finessed the nomination from Hillary Clinton.


so, in summary

1. they haven't
and
2. they didn't
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:55 pm
@Lash,
I did, too. I saw a segment on last night or the night before's Rachel Madow where they were explained.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/return-of-the-superdelegates-2016-election_us_56bcea6ee4b0c3c550508660

Here Comes Another Superdelegate Crisis
Your least favorite thing about the 2008 Democratic primary is back!
02/11/2016 05:57 pm ET
2.9 K

Jason Linkins
‘Eat The Press’ Columnist, The Huffington Post

Jim Cole/Associated Press
Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will face superdelegates in their fight for the nomination.

Shortly after the New Hampshire primaries concluded, a great confusion arose among those who don’t have several hundred hours of free time to study the Byzantine way we decide presidential nominees. That confusion coalesced into a single question: Why, if Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton decisively in the Granite State’s primary, was the delegate count coming out of the state so close? Well, prepare to be reminded of an electoral bugaboo from yesteryear, with this concise explanation from Ben Kamisar at The Hill:

Sanders won 15 delegates with his 20-point victory Tuesday while Clinton won nine.

But Clinton came into the contest with the support of six superdelegates, who are state party insiders given the freedom to support any candidate they choose.

Ah, yes, welcome back, Democratic superdelegates! Time to make some space for you and all your bad memories.

So, here’s basically the back-of-the-cereal-box story of how the Democratic primary works. To be the nominee in 2016, you have to amass a total of 2,382 delegates during the primary season. Most of this haul will come from successfully competing in the states’ various primaries and caucuses. Some states — like these early ones we’ve seen — apportion the delegates according to the vote. In these instances, the losers take home some consolation delegates to add to their pile. In many of the later states, however, the delegates are awarded on a winner-take-all basis. So as the primary process proceeds, the stakes tend to accelerate.

(I’m really underplaying the complexity of the process here. If you want to get deeper into the weeds, head out to The Green Papers and start undertaking your graduate-level study of this process.)

Now set all of the primary process aside and focus on another source from which the candidates can add to their delegate totals: the superdelegates. Democratic Party superdelegates are basically elected officials, Democratic National Committee members and a posse of party swells that are now considered distinguished Democratic Party pooh-bahs, and they all get a vote in this process.

There are, right now, 712 of them. Many are, as of this moment, tentatively committed to a candidate. The Associated Press’ reporting calculates that Clinton currently has 361 superdelegates committed to her as of Jan. 30, and Sanders has ... eight. So, Clinton has a massive advantage here.

But this advantage comes with problems. Many superdelegates prefer to fly under the radar, properly recognizing that it would be a really bad look if a bunch of affluent party elites became the means by which a primary was decided. Some of these superdelegates, of course, are influential Democratic legislators whose endorsements are sought by the candidates. When Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), for example, backed Sanders, this was an important moment of the so-called “invisible primary,” in which an influential liberal congressman signalled his choice to other liberals. Grijalva is a superdelegate as well, though, so count him among Sanders’ eight in the tally.

But the ideal situation for many superdelegates is for them to merely use their vote as a ceremonial affirmation of the voters’ consensus. That’s why hundreds of them are currently biding their time, not picking anyone. Many superdelegates are in it for the perks — a hotel room at the convention, a place amid the pageantry on the floor — and would rather not see their potentially decisive power being used to decide a nominee.

This sentiment was well expressed by Missouri Democratic Sen. (and superdelegate) Claire McCaskill back in April of 2008:

“The majority of superdelegates I’ve talked to are committed, but it is a matter of timing,” said Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.). “They’re just preferring to make their decision public after the primaries are over. ... They would like someone else to act for them before they talk about it in the cold light of day.”

And back in the spring of 2008, the way the race had shaped up had placed a lot of undue attention on the superdelegates and their role in the process. There came a moment in the race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama when Clinton’s mathematical path to notching the nomination didn’t make sense unless a lot of superdelegates started breaking her way.

And it wasn’t just the raw arithmetic that mattered. She needed momentum as well, because she was locked in a situation where she had to start winning primaries by decisive margins that hadn’t yet manifested themselves. Getting party elites to come out for her — against the run of play — was necessary to add a dose of energy to facilitate this outcome.

So Clinton got to the point where she had to start publicly and flamboyantly courting the superdelegates. (Obama, rest assured, was doing the same in a more publicly restrained way.) And many of those superdelegates properly recognized that their lives might get dicey if, after the voters demonstrated a clear desire to nominate their party’s first black candidate, some affluent Beltway toff threw the election in a different direction. (Around the same time, the Clinton campaign was also seeking to have the full delegate slate from a pair of states fully credentialed after the party punished them for various primary calendar shenanigans, a much better case for a nominal leader of the “party of the little guy” to be making.)

In short, there was a time where the word “superdelegate” connoted a deep, deep dysfunction within the Democratic Party and an intergalactic electoral controversy. Given the fact that the 2008 cycle exposed that the superdelegates could, in the wrong situation, prove to be an undemocratic passel of votes that could supersede the will of primary voters, it shouldn’t be a surprise that the Democratic Party pondered doing away with them altogether. So in August of 2010, the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee met to ponder the matter.

As Newsweek’s Colin Woodard reported at the time, here’s how that went:

But the rules committee took a dim view of this proposal. While endorsing recommendations to dilute the superdelegates’ influence (mostly by increasing the number of ordinary delegates), it quietly nixed the redefinition of their voting powers at it July 10 meeting. How quietly? Enough that even some members of the change commission hadn’t yet heard about it when NEWSWEEK spoke to them last week.

The end result of all of this was that the influence of superdelegates in the process was slightly reduced, by limiting their overall proportion in the total number of delegates available to all candidates to 15 percent (down from 20 percent).

Why not more? Let’s have a beneficiary of nepotism explain it to Newsweek, because that’s almost too perfect:

“People ask: isn’t it enough for folks to have floor privileges and a hotel room and not have an actual vote?” says rules-committee co-chair James Roosevelt Jr., a grandson of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. “The answer is: what you’re doing is creating two classes of delegates, people with the vote and people without the vote. Clearly, the people at the grassroots level should be the predominant voice. But if you don’t give elected officials a real voice, they are basically second-class citizens.”

Sure. Wouldn’t want a group of privileged elites to feel like they’re second class to primary voters. That almost makes too much sense.

Now it’s 2016, and the situation has changed considerably. This time, Clinton enjoys a substantial lead over Sanders in the race to win superdelegates. This is, on one important level, very understandable: Sanders is not a Democrat. He’s an independent senator who caucuses with the Democrats, but he doesn’t play a huge role in building the party and, in fact, his whole campaign is predicated on tearing out the existing party apparatus and replacing it with something new.

So, all things being equal, his claim on the superdelegates is very tenuous. But when you start blowing out Clinton in primaries, guess what? All things cease being equal in a hurry. NBC News’ First Read Team does a fine job distilling the situation at hand:

Overall, according to the AP’s count, Clinton has endorsements from more than 360 Democratic superdelegates, versus eight for Sanders. According to our back-of-envelope math, that means that Sanders must win 54% of the remaining delegates to get to the magic number of 2,382 delegates to clinch the Democratic nomination, while Clinton needs to win just 46%. That is a HUGE advantage, especially when you consider that the 2008 Democratic delegate race between Barack Obama and Clinton was essentially a 52%-48% affair.

It is a “huge advantage” ... on paper. But if we think this through to the end, what happens if Sanders wins a majority of the remaining delegates that are at stake in contests where Democrats actually vote, and misses the nomination because Clinton closed and surmounted the gap through the votes wrangled from party elites? It probably leaves everyone involved in a crisis, with a sizable portion of the electorate left feeling disaffected by the primary process. In this hypothetical circumstance, how does Clinton win those voters back to her side for the general election?

It may not happen that way, of course. As previously mentioned, many superdelegates are happy to simply affirm the consensus and move on with their lives. As the First Read Team notes, “If Sanders does win a majority of the bound delegates, there will be ENORMOUS pressure on the supers to back him. And that pressure could likely lead to many elected supers — perhaps worried about a future Dem primary — to suddenly get cold feet on Clinton and simply promise to support the Dem who wins their district or state.”

That is, indeed, the likely outcome. Still, this is a sleeping dog that Clinton ought to leave snoozing for the foreseeable future. But that’s not what’s happening. As ABC News’ Rick Klein reports, “Clinton campaign aides are touting” her currently substantial superdelegate lead “at least implicitly, in arguing to supporters and donors that the delegate math is overwhelmingly in her favor.”

Klein continues:

That, though, makes a few dangerous assumptions. First, it presumes that if superdelegates matter, they would openly deny the nomination to someone who won more delegates via actual voting. (Remember 2008, anyone?) Second, and more urgently, it presumes that Sanders supporters won’t wake up to this possibility and use it as motivation. A line about how the establishment is trying to subvert the judgment of the people could slip rather easily into a Sanders stump speech.

But the bigger problem for Clinton is simply the fact that this isn’t how this primary was supposed to go! It was never, ever supposed to come down to knotty delegate math and enumerating the vote splits on a state-by-state spreadsheet — let alone give rise to a situation where she’d be dependent on a superdelegate bailout. And yet, after two contests — both of which offered Sanders some bank-shot advantages that don’t exist elsewhere — Clinton’s team is revealing a deep concern for the road ahead.

Nevertheless, pointing to the way those Democratic Party elites who enjoy voting privileges favor her over Sanders is not a move her campaign advisers should even be countenancing at this point. The basic argument of her candidacy is that the institutions that govern our lives do not need to be torn down, root and branch. Clinton’s case is that competent management of existing institutions will help level the playing field. For this reason, she shouldn’t be telling voters that the system isn’t really rigged against them while simultaneously telling her donors, “Don’t worry, the Democratic primary is rigged in my favor.”

But for whatever reason, that’s where we are right now, and once again, superdelegates are stuck in the spotlight. The Democrats should have just scuttled the superdelegates when they had the opportunity. Alas!

Jason Linkins edits “Eat The Press” for The Huffington Post and co-hosts the HuffPost politics podcast, “So, That Happened.” Subscribe here. Listen to the latest episode below.

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:57 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I would want Bernie to support the ticket if Hillary gets the nomination.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:59 pm
@ehBeth,
A lot of people including Hillary would disagree with you.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:08 pm
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 06:46 pm
Bill Clinton revealed. http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/bill-clinton-black-lives-matter-insult/
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 08:43 pm
@Setanta,
Perhaps you would rather I forfeit my right to express my opinion and adhere to one who is much more intelligent than my self. Like you? I dont think so but thanks for trying to straighten me out.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 08:49 pm
@Olivier5,
I just read an article about people who correct other peoples english and spelling posts and it wasent complementary. No Im not going to find it and post it. If you want to know look it up yourself because I dont care about the spelling or your opinion.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Apr, 2016 09:00 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Relevance of Hillary's possible opinion?

__

There is no evidence that super-delegates have ever made a difference.
 

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