80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 09:55 pm
@blatham,
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/oct/16/rupert-murdoch-vs-donald-trump-a-nightmare-for-fox-news

Quote:
Taibbi argues that Murdoch senses his “beloved audience of idiots” are drifting away and “beginning to suspect the truth about him, i.e. that he isn’t really one of them.

“Murdoch could go lower to prove his devotion, but that next step down is Trump. If he balks at that, he might lose his audience. Beautiful.”
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 09:56 pm
http://www.bustle.com/articles/137693-donald-trumps-fox-news-feud-goes-way-back-shows-no-signs-of-stopping

Quote:
Rupert Murdoch ✔ @rupertmurdoch
When is Donald Trump going to stop embarrassing his friends, let
alone the whole country?
8:06 PM - 18 Jul 2015
1,563 1,563 Retweets 1,342 1,342 likes
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 09:59 pm
@ehBeth,
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/on-trump-murdoch-has-lost-control-of-ailes-fox.html

Quote:
The mounting problem Donald Trump poses to Republicans is also a mounting problem for the country’s most powerful conservative media mogul: Rupert Murdoch. This morning’s New York Times gives front-page treatment to the billionaire grudge match that has become a major story line in this year’s (already) fractious GOP primary. The piece by political reporters Amy Chozick and Ashley Parker chronicles Murdoch’s intensifying efforts over the past week to blunt Trump’s surge to the top of the crowded GOP field. In recent days, Murdoch has tweeted that Trump is “wrong” and “embarrassing.” On Sunday, the New York Post mocked Trump on the cover with the headline “DON VOYAGE” and featured him marooned on a life raft being circled by a shark. The same day, The Wall Street Journal ran a scathing editorial that labeled Trump a “catastrophe.”

One reason Murdoch is taking to social media and deploying his publishing properties to attack Trump may be the simple fact that he hasn’t been able to control his most powerful media organ: Fox News. According to sources, Murdoch has tried — and failed — to rein in Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes, who, insiders say, is pushing Fox to defend Trump’s most outlandish comments. This week, Ailes told his senior executives during a meeting that Murdoch recently called him and asked if Fox could “back off the Trump coverage,” a source told me. Ailes is said to have boasted to his executives that he told Murdoch he was covering Trump “the way he wanted to.” The implication was that he wasn’t going to budge.


It’s understandable that Murdoch would be frustrated. Fox News has been a ringleader of the Trump circus. Shortly after Trump jumped into the race, he had a "2-to-3 hour" private lunch with Ailes, sources told me. Last month, Fox gave Trump more airtime than any other candidate. And, according to sources, the channel's personalities are taking an active role in aiding Trump, both on- and off-camera. One source explained that Ailes has instructed The Five co-host Eric Bolling to defend Trump on air. A review of Bolling’s comments shows that over the past week, he’s gone to bat for Trump numerous times. Last Friday, for example, Bolling complained that conservatives shouldn’t be criticizing the real-estate mogul. “There's a problem in America, and it's not Donald Trump,” Bolling declared. He continued to make pro-Trump arguments on Monday and Tuesday’s shows. Another Trump ally is Fox political analyst and pollster Pat Caddell. According to a source with direct knowledge, Caddell has been speaking to Trump “almost every day” about his campaign. “Everything coming out of Trump’s mouth sounds like Pat,” the source said. This morning, Fox & Friends — a show that is used by Ailes to inject his point of view into debates — ran a fawning interview with Trump. At one point in the conversation, co-host Steve Doocy gushed that “someone told me yesterday Donald Trump is like a Navy SEAL.” For his part, Trump has been grateful for the Fox & Friends support. Yesterday, at a campaign event in South Carolina where he gave out Lindsey Graham's personal cell-phone number, Trump heaped praise on Fox & Friends' Doocy, Brian Kilmeade, and Elisabeth Hasselbeck. "They're great people," he said.

Murdoch’s public and private attempts to temper Ailes make Sunday’s Wall Street Journal editorial all the more fascinating. The piece — which carries no mention of Fox — excoriated the conservative media “apologists” that have been backing Trump. “Too many have adopted the view that there can be no adversary to their right,” the Journal said. “This was mainly a left-wing affliction in the last century as many liberals refused to condemn Communists. But today many on the right seem willing to indulge any populist outburst no matter how divorced from reality or insulting to most Americans. If Donald Trump becomes the voice of conservatives, conservatism will implode along with him.”

Inside Fox News, the Journal editorial is clearly seen by some as a message to Ailes. It seems doubtful, however, that he is listening. “Roger claims not to care,” an insider said.


nymag

always has the good stuff
glitterbag
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:08 pm
@blatham,
Ahem, Blatham may I introduce Lash? Lash, this is our pal Blatham.
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:10 pm
@ehBeth,
Yeah. I find Murdoch much easier to read than Ailes. For one thing, he opens his mouth far more often. He lies through his teeth but often gives himself away. One quote I bumped into a couple of years ago from him... "Roger actually believes all this stuff". That tells us a fair bit about both guys.

And as you said earlier, Murdoch has changed his tune from that July tweet. He wants to keep market share high because it is money and because he needs Fox to remain influential because influence is his means to power/money. Where he courted Hillary 8 years ago, Ailes would never do that. Ailes is a GOP guy. Much of his adult life has been devoted to the party. Rupert, on the other hand, regards everyone and everything as potential pawns to his personal ambitions.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:14 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Ahem, Blatham may I introduce Lash? Lash, this is our pal Blatham.

Have known Lash for a long time but had to put her on ignore a couple of weeks ago.

But I'm guessing this is in regards to my earlier statement re having not bumped into an extremist Bernie fan? Lash may be trolling on this. No way of really knowing but it doesn't matter. There's no influence wielded.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:22 pm
@blatham,
Thank you. We are coming down out of the clouds of occasionally vapid abstractions and down to families of concrete issues.

You make some judgments about the relative merit or harm between requiring people and groups to buy insurance covering abortions and requiring women seeking abortions to uderego medical exams, and later an assertion of the equivalence (moral?) between requiring an unwilling woman to have an abortion and denying one to another who wants one. You don't state the standards on which these judgments are made, but I believe both are arguable, both ethically and morally. Abortion involves destroying, as a minimum, what will become a human life, and doing so without the consent of that life. It is one thing to make abortion legal and available, but quite another to force someone with moral objections to it to participate. For a woman seeking an abortion a medical exam no more intrusive than the procedure she seeks, hardly seems like anything more intrusive than denying the religious and moral rights of another. In the second instance denying the right to an abortion is hardly the equivalent of requiring one for someone unwilling to sacrifice the life within her. I have a hard time grasping the moral/ethical standard that might support your judgments here, but if you care to define one, I'll think about it seriously.

In these areas I believe tolerance is a virtue. Access to abortion should exist, but democratic government should have some ability to regulate it as it already does generally equivalent activities, and no one should be forced to participate in it against their consciences.

Calling an idea "religious right's agitprop: and refusing to discuss it is much like .... how shall I say it ? ... the worst behavior of intolerent religious zealots.

I like our constitution and all it implies ... individual freedom; strictly defined and limited Federal government powers; the separation and balance of powers of the three branches of that government; the reservation of powers not assigned to the Federal government to the states and the people. If you want to call that a form of social organization that's OK with me. However, I am not in favor of bypassing the prescribed method of changing that constitution or of misusing the powers of the Federal government to create a materially different one (or social organization if you prefer).

I would be quite OK with the resurgance of a political party advocating a Marxist view of the world. (You haven't seen me calling for any suppression of Bernie Sanders have you?) The only justification for our former limitations on and investigations of the (then legal) Communist Party USA was that it was (and was later shown to be ) a tool of a truly dangerous and hostile external Power, the USSR. Without that it should have been left alone to whither and die. The same goes for Nazis and White (or Black) supremicists. In the first place, absent a cooperating hostile external power, these things are self, limiting. In the second we can't suppress them without endangering our own freedoms.

I believe the intensity of the accusatiuons of partisanship and non-cooperation on the part of Democrats and Republicans have been about equal and that both have ample justification for it. I think you are vastly overdramatizing a meeting you didn't attend (and believe that noting that was not sleazy at all), and note that the collision that ensued was already forecast in the rhetoric of both parties in the election. It was the day-to-day actions of the two parties over the past seven years that sustained the polarization and provided both sides with all the justification they sought -- it takes two to tango - or fight.

You appear to have a fairly low threshold of indignation... sometimes a bit shrill and indicating more emotion than the matter merits (in my view at least). Perhaps that comes from too much exposure to soap opera-like recounting of daily events and 'he said; she said' (or tweeted) stuff of political reportage and blogs. A lot of that stuff is repetitive and ephemeral. I probably frequent it too little, as you suggested. However I think you do it too much.
I am not a "know nothing", as the historical allusion goes, and I think you know that.

Kolyo
 
  4  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:29 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I realize Bernie likely won't be elected without former Hillary supporters. Bernie deserves their votes. I hope they make that choice.


Bernie's problem won't be in wooing former Hillary supporters. His problem will be the low-information voter, whose vote is essentially for sale to whoever wants to spend billions on ad space.
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
nymag
always has the good stuff


Yes. I'm a fan. Was delighted when they hired Ed Kilgore several weeks ago. I'd been following Ed for years while he wrote at the Democratic Strategist. Then, when Rachel hired Steve Benen away from the Washington Monthly (where I'd been following him daily), Ed took over that spot. He posts now under The Daily Intelligencer (and also at Dem Strategist on occasion).

There really is chaos on the right at this point. Politico has a piece up quoting the GOP candidates all blaming each other for Trump's rise (even while NRO is trying to make the case that Trump happened because of... Obama!)

They've been going crazy for a long while. This had to happen sooner or later. And I'm positively delighted. Time for some tough love, as the home-schoolers might put it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:32 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
First Palin and now Arpaigo. Who next, a resurrected Joe McCarthy?

Curious coincidence. Georgob came close to suggesting McCarthy was reborn as Bernie Latham. And I do support Trump as the nominee for the GOP in 2016.

But wait! There's more!

Marla Maples, in an ornate bedroom, slips off the bed, glass of wine in her hand, sultry smile and sultry walk towards the camera.
"I'm going to Hump for Trump. Want to join us?"


I got a good laugh out of all that !! You're gifted and a lot better at comedy and satire than drama.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:34 pm
@georgeob1,
As a person who has a uterus, I am asking you for a little clarification. First, it would be a crime to force someone to abort against their will. Now about those exams you suggest should occur before a woman seeking an abortion would be granted permission to have one: Are we talking about an internal sonogram??? I would really like an answer to that, because I'm not sure if men understand that women don't always want to have foreign objects inserted inside them to satisfy someone else's curiosity. Just saying. Also, have you seen the wand they use for that procedure? It is definitely not a happy stick. I'll wait for clarification,
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:40 pm
@Kolyo,
nymag's got a slightly different take (just posted the link in thread re Mr. Sanders)

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/two-big-obstacles-to-a-sanders-win-in-iowa.html

Quote:

1. Sanders draws much of his support from unlikely voters.

Every candidate running against the Establishment is also, to a degree, running against the established electorate. After all, longtime voters are the ones who elected the “Washington cartel” to begin with. So it isn’t surprising that Sanders draws much of his support from first-time voters. The trouble is, first-time voters have a habit of becoming “next time” voters.


Quote:
Sanders’s surprising competitiveness is, of course, built off his overwhelming popularity among younger voters. A recent NBC/Marist poll found Sanders winning 64 to 29 among Iowa voters under 45 – and no demographic is less likely to vote than the Americans who understand Snapchat. In 2012, just 45 percent of 18-to-29-year-olds found their way to a polling station.

The Sanders campaign does draw big crowds, has an army of volunteers, and seems able to channel that metaphysical quality knowable only to our pundit-shamans – “momentum.” So it may just be able to get these millennials to put down their smartphones for a night of caucusing. But when they do, they could find themselves smacking into roadblock No. 2 ...


Quote:

2. Sanders could turn out more supporters than Clinton, and still lose.

The Democratic primary isn’t a democratic primary: The winner won’t be determined by raw vote totals but by the allocation of delegates. This is especially significant for the Iowa caucus, where delegates are assigned on a geographic basis.

The young voters propelling Sanders's candidacy are heavily concentrated in the state’s college towns. More than a quarter of his supporters live in just three of Iowa’s 99 counties. No matter how fiercely those counties #feeltheBern, they will still award only 12 percent of the state’s 1,401 delegates. So even if a majority of Iowans caucus for Sanders on Monday night, if those Sandernistas aren’t spread out across the state, Clinton could still win by a wide margin.

Last week, Politico reported that the Sanders camp was devoting more resources to the state’s rural western regions. But the Clinton camp has been organizing in those areas for months – and enjoyed considerable success there in 2008.


That said, Sanders’s “political revolution” has overcome an astounding number of obstacles to get where it is today. He's drawn close in the Iowa polls despite receiving virtually no support from his (recently adopted) party’s elected leaders, big-dollar donors, or interest groups. He’s built a lead in New Hampshire despite facing an opponent whose popularity and prominence among Democrats is unique among history’s non-incumbent presidential candidates. So no one can confidently rule out the possibility of a Sanders victory on Monday night. But so long as the polls are tied, the Vermont senator is (probably) losing.



I'd like it if Mr. Sanders won at least one of NH and Iowa.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:40 pm
Here is Fox's reply to Trumps announcement
Quote:
We learned from a secret back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president — a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings.


Light as a feather. Ailes is very clearly not with the NRO/Weekly Standard/WSJ/Krauthammer/Gerson contingent. He's with Limbaugh/Coulter/talk radio.

It's a civil war.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:43 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I got a good laugh out of all that

One of the reasons I like you is that you have quality taste in some things.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:47 pm
@georgeob1,
Will respond tomorrow. Stuff to do here now.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:59 pm
@georgeob1,
Well. I'm afraid you'll just have to be put on ignore for that incisive diagnosis. I'm not sure you studied long enough to share that opinion.

Jeez. He has the self-awareness of a child.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 11:17 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

As a person who has a uterus, I am asking you for a little clarification. First, it would be a crime to force someone to abort against their will. Now about those exams you suggest should occur before a woman seeking an abortion would be granted permission to have one: Are we talking about an internal sonogram??? I would really like an answer to that, because I'm not sure if men understand that women don't always want to have foreign objects inserted inside them to satisfy someone else's curiosity. Just saying. Also, have you seen the wand they use for that procedure? It is definitely not a happy stick. I'll wait for clarification,


I believe no woman should be forced to have an abortion against her will, whether such an action was deemed legal in some place or not. Does that answer your question?

I haven't suggested that any exams she doesn't want should be required of any woman. I was instead responding to Blatham's hypothesis. The curiosity involved in such a sonogram should be that of the woman and her mate.

I did like the happy stick bit though.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 11:27 pm
@Lash,
Thank you Lash. We have some (not all) different views on economic politics but have happily found a way to relate as sympathetic friends. I enjoy your posts, and even your enthusiasm for Bernie. Even more I enjoy the fact that disagreement on some things doesn't get in the way of our pleasure and enjoyment in others. A2K needs more of that.

Blatham and I enkoy some of that too. He is a bit more testy than I, but I forgive him. He repays me with comedy.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 26 Jan, 2016 11:34 pm
@georgeob1,
I don't think a woman should be forced to have an abortion. I can't imagine any State in the Union would allow that. So we are in agreement on that point.

Personally, I was quite alarmed listening to anti-choice politicians suggesting on top of all the other stumbling blocks, an additional internal exam that would make most men faint if they thought it could used on them. I think abortion needs to be thought out carefully by the person seeking an abortion. I would never talk another women into a procedure that she didn't want. But I will not judge other women because I imagine it must be a terrible decision to make.

I get a little nervous and agitated when politicians suggest they need to poke around in places they have no business poking around. I had to ask, because some proponents of that additional hurdle seem to think its necessary. I'm sure you would agree that men or women should not be forced to accept foreign objects inserted in places they don't want to have probed.

Ok, on the same page. Glad you liked happy stick.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Wed 27 Jan, 2016 01:32 am
@snood,
As Ive pointed out before there is one hell of a difference between Bernie and his acolytes. He does portray the good guy while taking advantage of the smear tactics of his followers.
 

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