@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Quote:Authoritarian systems come im many forms across the political spectrum. 20th century Fascism and Soviet Socialism ended up behaving very similalrly and in equally authoritarian and even tyrannical ways.
I think that is broadly true. So it then becomes a matter of establishing what behaviors and mental states are present in either case. No. Let's just take one clarifying example. Sanders defends and would forward maximal voting rights and access. In other words, he would have the shape and policies of governance be established by as many citizens as
Quote:Would you credit Bernie Sanders with any authoritarian inclinations?
possible. The authoritarian personality moves in the opposite direction with the intention of maintaining power within as tight and small a circle as possible.
That's a nice bit of sophistry. First you accept the proposition that Fascist and Socialist political sytems have behaved in similarly authoritarian and even tyrannical way is "broadly true", and then you simply stipulate (without justification of any kind) that the issue then becomes a matter of "establishing what behaviors and mental states are present in either case". A logical conclusion of your logical distortion would be that a murderous tyranny that sought to control the lives and benavior of its people in the name of a social/economic theory or belief system that in the minds of the oppressors may have promised justice and prosperity to all was not led by authoritarians at all, and not authoritarian itself. That is a laughable theoretical proposition, and far worse, it is an apt description of the reality of the worst such system to infect the 20th century, Soviet style Marxism.
Neither you not I have any real knowledge of Bernie Sander's mental state or what his behaviors might be if given real power. I'll readily grant that he is strongly connected to our democratic process;is seeking power in an entirely democratic way; and that his rhetoric is consistent with that. However the fact remains that auhoritarian use of government power and control is indeed a larger part of his program for dealing with our current issues than are those of his opponents. What might he do if he was in power and believed that his version of paradise was actually achievable ?
Hugo Chavez rose to power in Venezuela in an entirely Democratic way (after an earlier failed attempt at a coup), and was sustained in power in repeated, largely democratic elections. His rhetoric promised a redistribution of national wealth and a new "Bolivarian" socialism that would end the domination of the former elites and enrich everyone. The result of course was a descent into inefficiency, poverty and a gradual rise in the use of force by his government to crush a growing political opposition and enrich his cronies. He stifled independent economic activity because it empowered potential political opponents, while creating "socialist" enterprises that wasted wealth in cronyism and corruption, even including the formerly efficient but nationalized Petroleum company PDVS.A. In the hands of his stupid, thugish, hand picked successor, Venezuela has become a sad comic catastrophie for all.
We don't know what was Chavez' mental state when he took power either. I suspect that to a substantial degree he believed all that foolishness, but was led by events and the misguided belief that only he could lead the country to his Bolivarian paradise and that justified doing whatever was necessary to achieve those ends. History is replete with stories of such personal transformations (or perhaps more accurately descents into tyranny).
Could this all happen to a nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn who attended Brooklyn college, and got a BS in Political Science from the University of Chicago, while participating in the then avant garde political movements including The Young People's Sociualist League, CORE and SNCC; lived briefly in a kibbutz in Israel and then pursued a lifelong career in politics? I think it possible. I certainly wouldn't want to bet that it couldn't happen.
In any event I believe we both likely agree that the probability of Sanders election along with s Congress willing to follow his prescriptions is quite negligible.
